523 réponses à ce sujet

[Solmanian]

I_Jedi wrote...

If it's the indoc theory, Bioware is forgiven.

Even though the theory hinges on bioware purposefully giving you a partial ending?

[slimgrin]

DLC is already prepared, that much is obvious. If anything they might be altering it given the fan backlash, or they'll just release it as planned.

Modifié par slimgrin, 25 mars 2012 - 10:49 .

[Solmanian]

I'd like to see what they do to add closure, and plug the holes. They should be careful and take their time, because it could very well explode in their face. Some people will be upset either way, because they didn't get their extra endings (a more frivolus demand if I heard one), but more importent they need to calm the silent masses that were confused by the ending. If not done right, it could push the silent masses into the rage side, if done right it will reduce the retake movemnet to a bunch a zealous malcontents that aren't happy with anything. First order of bussiness: no space magic. The explaination has to make sense (while considering the demanded suspension of disbelief of a scifi universe. Meaning, we don't demand them to stephen hawking to prove the endings made sense, they just need to make them reasonable. They realy need to explain the whole joker bussiness (maybe hacket gave some order in the heat of battle that required the normandy and its crew, being the fastest ship in the fleet and all)

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Elhanan wrote...
There may be hundreds of comparisons that fall far short of the understanding that no matter how immersive, this is only a game. And it is rather telling that some of those disliking the ending simply assume that those that enjoyed it do not find it immersive.

If you put the same emotional charge on an RPG and Angry Birds, it's up to you ("this is only a game"...), but don't think that it's the same for everyone. Just make some research, and you'll see that role playing games are by far the most real experience minus reality itself.

Modifié par Kakita Tatsumaru, 25 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[BillsVengenace]

Nothing less than a complete rewrite that begins when Shepard lands on Earth to include gameplay and endingS that are affected by the choices and alliances you made throughout the series (available for FREE) with be accepted. Heed this warning BioWare. Heed.

Yes it might cost you a bit of money, but the loss of customers if you mess it up again will cost you far more.

[evil-pineapples]

BillsVengenace wrote...

Nothing less than a complete rewrite that begins when Shepard lands on Earth to include gameplay and endingS that are affected by the choices and alliances you made throughout the series (available for FREE) with be accepted. Heed this warning BioWare. Heed.

Yes it might cost you a bit of money, but the loss of customers if you mess it up again will cost you far more.

God, I hope EA finally learns their lesson about tight budgets and strict deadlines when they witness the less-than-stellar sales performance of BioWare's next title.

[Stalker]

Now I am getting interested: I really want to see how they can "clarify" this huge amount of **** that happened.

[BeefoTheBold]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

pants witch wrote...

Heliosas wrote...

Even if Bioware came onto these boards and agreed with us that they had messed up the ending they still wouldn't change it. They feel they can't. They feel bound by their own 'art'. We will not get what we want. Period.

Deep down, I fear you are correct, but I won't give up hope that they will see reason (and act on it).

I am an artist.  If someone paying me for my work was dissatisfied with what I had come up with, I would change it.  I've been lucky so far and haven't had to do that, but if it was requested of me by the person paying me for my work, I would change it.  That is what you do if you want to be paid.  This is a reality artists have to face.

We have to be willing to accept a compromise and meet BioWare halfway. 

No we don't.

[BeefoTheBold]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

pants witch wrote..

Compromise, or "compromise"?  The former sounds great.
Your comment is too vague, I am unable to see your entire position or how it contradicts my own.

A lot of people want BioWare to completely change the endings and are disappointed that they aren't. They shouldn't have to. With that said, some additional ones or extending what's already there is a better alternative. Both sides get something they want. 

This isn't a two-way street. We're the customers. If we don't like the product, then we don't give them money. We don't have to give Bioware ANYTHING that they want.

That's how a business/customer relationship works. The business comes up with a product that the customer is satisfied with, or the customer stops giving the business money for more products in the future.

[Ethical]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

pants witch wrote..

Compromise, or "compromise"?  The former sounds great.
Your comment is too vague, I am unable to see your entire position or how it contradicts my own.

A lot of people want BioWare to completely change the endings and are disappointed that they aren't. They shouldn't have to. With that said, some additional ones or extending what's already there is a better alternative. Both sides get something they want. 

This isn't a two-way street. We're the customers. If we don't like the product, then we don't give them money. We don't have to give Bioware ANYTHING that they want.

That's how a business/customer relationship works. The business comes up with a product that the customer is satisfied with, or the customer stops giving the business money for more products in the future.

That's assuming everyone hates the endings. Some people do not, so yes people who want new endings HAVE to meet Bioware halfway since note everyone hates them. 

Does the majority hate the endings? yes, but as long as there are those that like it we have to compormise.

[BeefoTheBold]

Sublime82 wrote...

Yeah... I'm going to be waiting on the review before I download anything.

Reviewers be damned. Look at the difference between Metacritic reviews and User reviews. I don't trust professional reviewers at all right now. They completely whiffed on this review.  

I'll wait until I see some user ratings and reviews first.

And I sure as hell won't pay a single red cent for the DLC to "clarify" the ending.

[BeefoTheBold]

Nicky 192 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

I've almost decide that this was all done on purpose by Bioware so that they have an excuse to stop even bothering to make RPGs and can go make mainstream action shooters with crappy game mechanics animations and graphics. Because honestly they have handled the entire situation so badly its like they are doing it on purpose.

I would'nt be surprised at all.

Nor would I. Been pretty obvious for a while now that RPG fans are not really Bioware's target audience anymore.

[BeefoTheBold]

Ethical wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

pants witch wrote..

Compromise, or "compromise"?  The former sounds great.
Your comment is too vague, I am unable to see your entire position or how it contradicts my own.

A lot of people want BioWare to completely change the endings and are disappointed that they aren't. They shouldn't have to. With that said, some additional ones or extending what's already there is a better alternative. Both sides get something they want. 

This isn't a two-way street. We're the customers. If we don't like the product, then we don't give them money. We don't have to give Bioware ANYTHING that they want.

That's how a business/customer relationship works. The business comes up with a product that the customer is satisfied with, or the customer stops giving the business money for more products in the future.

That's assuming everyone hates the endings. Some people do not, so yes people who want new endings HAVE to meet Bioware halfway since note everyone hates them. 

Does the majority hate the endings? yes, but as long as there are those that like it we have to compormise.

Again, no you don't. Anecdotal evidence suggests that it isn't just the majority that hates the endings. It's the OVERWHELMING majority.

Put in terms that EA can understand: Would you rather ****** off 10% of your customer base or 90%?

Right now, they're choosing to ****** off the 90%.

And yes, I'm aware of the counterargument that nobody has real numbers and I made the 90/10 split up. But it's pretty obvious that the discontent is VERY widespread. Has anyone EVER seen such a widespread movement to change the ending of a game?

This is the first time I've ever seen anything like this reaction.

So no, I don't think a compromise is needed. I think a complete mea culpa and rewrite is necessary. Right now the best approach for "clarifying" the ending that anyone can come up with is "It's all just a dream/Shep fighting Indocrtrination and the DLC will let you continue to get to the real ending".

Problems with this:

1. So, Shep get's indoctrinated instantaneously right after a death-beam hits him? (How'd he survive that death beam to begin with again? Those beams destroy big, huge spaceships!)

2. It means that Bioware didn't put the REAL ENDING on the conclusion of the trilogy after promising over and over again they would.

3. It doesn't solve the problems of guaranteeing that ME3 would bring the story to a close. DLC to get an ending is not acceptable.

[Zatou]

Who'd a thunk it.

[kbct]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Again, no you don't. Anecdotal evidence suggests that it isn't just the majority that hates the endings. It's the OVERWHELMING majority.

Put in terms that EA can understand: Would you rather ****** off 10% of your customer base or 90%?

Right now, they're choosing to ****** off the 90%.

And yes, I'm aware of the counterargument that nobody has real numbers and I made the 90/10 split up. But it's pretty obvious that the discontent is VERY widespread. Has anyone EVER seen such a widespread movement to change the ending of a game?

This is the first time I've ever seen anything like this reaction.

So no, I don't think a compromise is needed. I think a complete mea culpa and rewrite is necessary. Right now the best approach for "clarifying" the ending that anyone can come up with is "It's all just a dream/Shep fighting Indocrtrination and the DLC will let you continue to get to the real ending".

Agreed, but while we know the vast majority don't like the ending, we don't know what the majority wants to do to fix it. There are no polls that let BioWare know what the fans want to do about the ending. And BioWare hasn't asked us. We only know no one likes the ending.

I personally think the fans want a rewrite, but I can't point to any evidence. My opinion was formed by reading these forums and fan reviews over the last two weeks.

So, BioWare can say they plan to "clarify" and add "closure," but no one knows if that will appease the fans.

[MrnDpty161]

Watching the evolving opinions unfold, its heart breaking to see that the Mass Effect franchise after being decimated by a terrible rush job end, is now going to de-evolve into further map packs and activision like - Modern Warfare nonsense with all of its lasting focus on the Multi-player.

Its like the RPG part was thrown out of the airlock.

You really want to hurt em ---- have a campaign that prevents this from occurring. They'll listen then.

[Elhanan]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

If you put the same emotional charge on an RPG and Angry Birds, it's up to you ("this is only a game"...), but don't think that it's the same for everyone. Just make some research, and you'll see that role playing games are by far the most real experience minus reality itself.

I shall leave Angry Birds in your repetoire, as I prefer playing RPG's; been doing so since '75.

If one allows any game, entertainment, hobby, drug, food, drink, etc to override their reason to lead with emotion, then that speaks to their standard of character; how little it takes to get someone upset often does. See Road Rage....

[Elhanan]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

This isn't a two-way street. We're the customers. If we don't like the product, then we don't give them money. We don't have to give Bioware ANYTHING that they want.

That's how a business/customer relationship works. The business comes up with a product that the customer is satisfied with, or the customer stops giving the business money for more products in the future.

If you are the customers, then you have already given them money.



If you research a product, and do not care for it, then by all means do not aquire it.
 
If you get a product and do not like it, then register a complaint, and see what occurs, and follow up until you are satisfied. However, this does not mean a continued moaning into the ear of the ones around you; helps nobody, and adds to the overall problem. And the guy standing behind you may then complain about you. Etc.

[MalevoIence]

I hope they stick to their guns, show a backbone, and with silence tell the protesters you can't dictate how we tell the ending of "our" series. If you want to rewrite the ending, make a fanfiction

[Elhanan]

kbct wrote...

Agreed, but while we know the vast majority don't like the ending, we don't know what the majority wants to do to fix it. There are no polls that let BioWare know what the fans want to do about the ending. And BioWare hasn't asked us. We only know no one likes the ending.

I personally think the fans want a rewrite, but I can't point to any evidence. My opinion was formed by reading these forums and fan reviews over the last two weeks.

So, BioWare can say they plan to "clarify" and add "closure," but no one knows if that will appease the fans.

'We' do not know anything of the sort.

I know that there is a portion of the fanbase that are being vocal; some demanding changes, alterations, and refunds. But I see no information other than conjecture and suppostition that this group is the overwhelming majority.

Many fans want a rewrite; many fans want Bioware to stand firm. The Tweet suggests a compromise, and many seem content with that. But it is Bioware's call to make the choice.

And for those that believe their opinion exceeds the freedom and right of those to make a product as they deem fit; then I have no empathy for them at all.

[Impulse and Compulse]

It's not their story, it's ours; that's the whole point of Mass Effect. There are plenty of other good sci fi stories out there, but only Mass Effect really lets you carve out your own path. That's why it's so insulting that all paths end at the same exact spot.

[Elhanan]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

It's not their story, it's ours; that's the whole point of Mass Effect. There are plenty of other good sci fi stories out there, but only Mass Effect really lets you carve out your own path. That's why it's so insulting that all paths end at the same exact spot.

Not so....

Not your story, more than one conclusion, and no insult is present.

[evil-pineapples]

Elhanan wrote...

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

It's not their story, it's ours; that's the whole point of Mass Effect. There are plenty of other good sci fi stories out there, but only Mass Effect really lets you carve out your own path. That's why it's so insulting that all paths end at the same exact spot.

Not so....

Not your story, more than one conclusion, and no insult is present.

Well, that may be true now, but we were told Mass Effect would be the player's story with wildly divergent endings.

[Elhanan]

evil-pineapples wrote...

Well, that may be true now, but we were told Mass Effect would be the player's story with wildly divergent endings.

Not certain, but I believe we were told that the player would make many decions, and these would weave what was seen and not seen at the end; do not recall anything about wildly divergent conclusions.
 
And choices do matter, and from what I have played earlier in the series, and have read of this game; more so than any other Bioware games thus far. I also wonder what happened to those that did not import, and started a new game; either first time ME gamers, or ones that watched the crew die in ME2.

[Viyu]

The issue is that if it was Bioware's story and theirs alone, they wouldn't need us to connect some of the dots to it and make certain decisions. That is why we are "co-creators" because there is no canon, and it is up to us to thread the ideas together and make them happen in our own unique stories. Sort of what an editorial team does to polish or revise someone's original work. It's not totally the author's story if it's being strung together by other people to tell a cohesive tale. However, I don't think fans have the write to demand the reigns of the entire story. But if even Bioware has called us "co-creators", then I don't see how we are placing any more demands on them than ones they have already acknowledged without complaint to date. I'm really getting tired of the "artist integrity" arguments. Sure the writer's are artists, but so are the fans.

Modifié par Viyu, 26 mars 2012 - 01:49 .