523 réponses à ce sujet

[kbct]

Elhanan wrote...

kbct wrote...

Agreed, but while we know the vast majority don't like the ending, we don't know what the majority wants to do to fix it. There are no polls that let BioWare know what the fans want to do about the ending. And BioWare hasn't asked us. We only know no one likes the ending.

I personally think the fans want a rewrite, but I can't point to any evidence. My opinion was formed by reading these forums and fan reviews over the last two weeks.

So, BioWare can say they plan to "clarify" and add "closure," but no one knows if that will appease the fans.

'We' do not know anything of the sort.

I know that there is a portion of the fanbase that are being vocal; some demanding changes, alterations, and refunds. But I see no information other than conjecture and suppostition that this group is the overwhelming majority.

Many fans want a rewrite; many fans want Bioware to stand firm. The Tweet suggests a compromise, and many seem content with that. But it is Bioware's call to make the choice.

And for those that believe their opinion exceeds the freedom and right of those to make a product as they deem fit; then I have no empathy for them at all.

The writing is on the wall. There is a tremendous amount of evidence that shows the vast majority doesn't like the ending. There is zero evidence that shows a majority liked the ending.

Can you point to any evidence that suggests the majority likes the ending?

BioWare is a business. ME3 is a commodity. BioWare should do whatever is necessary to make the most customers happy over the long-run.

[Elhanan]

kbct wrote...


The writing is on the wall. There is a tremendous amount of evidence that shows the vast majority doesn't like the ending. There is zero evidence that shows a majority liked the ending.

Can you point to any evidence that suggests the majority likes the ending?

BioWare is a business. ME3 is a commodity. BioWare should do whatever is necessary to make the most customers happy over the long-run.

Evidence? How about sales vs complaint crowd?

http://www.gamasutra...s_worldwide.php

http://www.gamasutra...ts__Week_11.php

While there is vocal ranting about the Witch coming from some, there is a rather large number of those that purchansed the game that are not gathered in the square; perhaps still playing the game.

Not proof, but evidence that the game is still selling quite well; scales, duck, and all.

[iNikki]

Yes! Its not a NEW ending, it will most likely be the indoctrination theory.

[Violet]

Yep, IF it's the indoc theory then forgiven but I think I'm done with Bioware/EA unless they can somehow prove to be less murderous to their own stories and franchise. You're right though. This ending will seriously hurt the company long term.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Elhanan wrote...
I shall leave Angry Birds in your repetoire, as I prefer playing RPG's; been doing so since '75.
If one allows any game, entertainment, hobby, drug, food, drink, etc to override their reason to lead with emotion, then that speaks to their standard of character; how little it takes to get someone upset often does. See Road Rage....

Why do you prefer role playing game if they leaves you emotionless?
Or are you just choosing to be apathic because it's the easy way?
Something bothers you? Close your eyes, plug your ears and it will disappears.
Well, that's the course of actions many choose to take those years, so I can't blame you for that.

Elhanan wrote...
Evidence? How about sales vs complaint crowd?
http://www.gamasutra...s_worldwide.php
http://www.gamasutra...ts__Week_11.php
While there is vocal ranting about the Witch coming from some, there is a rather large number of those that purchansed the game that are not gathered in the square; perhaps still playing the game.
Not proof, but evidence that the game is still selling quite well; scales, duck, and all.

How can the ending affect how a games sell during the first weeks? By the time people gets there, they already buyed the game!
It can mostly affect long time sells (like how DA2 sells started better than DA:O and ended not than well), and future games sells ( I think that I'm not the only one which didn't buyed ME3 day one because of DA2).

Modifié par Kakita Tatsumaru, 26 mars 2012 - 11:33 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

False movement, double post.
Sorry.

Modifié par Kakita Tatsumaru, 26 mars 2012 - 11:34 .

[FlyingWalrus]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

This isn't a two-way street. We're the customers. If we don't like the product, then we don't give them money. We don't have to give Bioware ANYTHING that they want.

That's how a business/customer relationship works. The business comes up with a product that the customer is satisfied with, or the customer stops giving the business money for more products in the future.

This extremely warped perception of how a business-client relationship works is part of what's fueling this entitlement complex, I think. But no.

The way it REALLY works is like this:

1) Business creates a product.

2) Business advertises product in an effort to gain customers.

3) Customer is either interested or not interested.

4a) Customer purchases product.

4b) Customer decides to pass up product.

5) Business continues to court customer to promote future business OR to gain their patronage, depending on whether more customers went to 4a or 4b.

At no point does the business owe the customer anything beyond the product working as intended because once the sale is complete, the customer has accepted the product and all its boons and flaws. Depending on whether the product is a PRODUCT or a SERVICE, there may be a term of contract involved. Depending on the nature of the PRODUCT, there may be a warranty period wherein the product is guaranteed to function as intended or else it is remedied by the producer.

Bioware is not a SERVICE PROVIDER of any sort and they owe you squat after the initial purchase besides bug fixes. If you didn't like the way ME3 ended, that's on you for not having the taste for it. If you didn't like ME3, exercise your power as a previous customer and just don't purchase the next Bioware product that rolls out. Enough of you do this, the point will be made. This includes premium DLC, INCLUDING any purported extensions to the ending. I bet 90% of the kvetchers aren't offended enough to keep themselves from buying that for a dollar (or fifteen), though.

But please, for the love of John Locke, stop spreading this misinformed filth that Bioware as a producer owes you something because Mass Effect 3's ending wasn't up to your snuff test after you bought it. Was it what Casey Hudson and Mac Walters crowed that it would be? Certainly not. And as that wasn't any sort of official advertising but rather developer showmanship and hyperbole the likes of which EVERY developer participates in for his or her own project, you cannot hold them to accusations of false advertising so much as rote exaggeration. But in terms of business, their dues were paid once you forked over money for the game in hand.

Modifié par FlyingWalrus, 26 mars 2012 - 12:20 .

[kbct]

Elhanan wrote...

kbct wrote...
The writing is on the wall. There is a tremendous amount of evidence that shows the vast majority doesn't like the ending. There is zero evidence that shows a majority liked the ending.

Can you point to any evidence that suggests the majority likes the ending?

BioWare is a business. ME3 is a commodity. BioWare should do whatever is necessary to make the most customers happy over the long-run.

Evidence? How about sales vs complaint crowd?

http://www.gamasutra...s_worldwide.php

http://www.gamasutra...ts__Week_11.php

While there is vocal ranting about the Witch coming from some, there is a rather large number of those that purchansed the game that are not gathered in the square; perhaps still playing the game.

Not proof, but evidence that the game is still selling quite well; scales, duck, and all.

ME3 sales dropped 74% the 2nd week in the UK. ME3 sales dropped 80% the 2nd week in the US.

Sales going forward is what matters. EA already has our money because most of us pre-ordered the game or bought it when it was first released. It took about a week after the release before everyone released the ending sucked.

[Quintega]

BIOWARE listen to us. WE will boycot you give us what you promised, I am now hearing that your not going to retcon your overused IDEA for a ending that shows complete lack of originality. Show us that your name still means something BIOWARE used to mean living software, When we heard it we all thought AWESOME original story. Yet you gave us a Standard Scifi game, You didn't follow your promises and now your trying to Charge us for it. IF you want to lose your fan base keep it up.

If you had gone with the indoctrination theory and just modified that fine. BUT THIS is not a Bioware game in the last 15 minutes. The Ending is Amateur at best no originality and not what we expect from a pedigree game company

[Elhanan]

Kakita Tatsumaru wrote...

Why do you prefer role playing game if they leaves you emotionless?
Or are you just choosing to be apathic because it's the easy way?
Something bothers you? Close your eyes, plug your ears and it will disappears.
Well, that's the course of actions many choose to take those years, so I can't blame you for that.

How can the ending affect how a games sell during the first weeks? By the time people gets there, they already buyed the game!
It can mostly affect long time sells (like how DA2 sells started better than DA:O and ended not than well), and future games sells ( I think that I'm not the only one which didn't buyed ME3 day one because of DA2).

I am not left without emotion; simply try not to allow many games, films, etc override reason. Some prefer to allow emotions dictate their actions; I try to stop at red lights. Some pretend that others are blind when they are the ones with tunnel vision; I wear glasses and enlarge the font size.

And while I may be apethetic to those demaning a change to the game, I am fine with the ending and the fans as a whole.

Those linked frankings do not include pre-orders, I believe, so these are resultant sales after release.

[Miashi]

I like the idea of the indoctrination theory. Hiope they go that way.

[ile_1979]

MrnDpty161 wrote...

Watching the evolving opinions unfold, its heart breaking to see that the Mass Effect franchise after being decimated by a terrible rush job end, is now going to de-evolve into further map packs and activision like - Modern Warfare nonsense with all of its lasting focus on the Multi-player.

Its like the RPG part was thrown out of the airlock.

You really want to hurt em ---- have a campaign that prevents this from occurring. They'll listen then.

Just a bit off topic, but have you people noted how even writers began using the term decimated in like totally inapropriate ways? Like, i am getting decimated.... WTF?! How can you get decimated? Decimation was killing/execution of every 10th legionary as a most extreme disciplinary measure. Even if we extrapolate it as a general loss of menpower, being down to 90% of original strength is not that bad <_<

[meteng]

ile_1979 wrote...

Just a bit off topic, but have you people noted how even writers began using the term decimated in like totally inapropriate ways? Like, i am getting decimated.... WTF?! How can you get decimated? Decimation was killing/execution of every 10th legionary as a most extreme disciplinary measure. Even if we extrapolate it as a general loss of menpower, being down to 90% of original strength is not that bad <_<

Absolutely. Misuse of decimate annoys the hell out of me but I think it is a losing battle. Although the historical use of the word is as you describe I think it is rapidly becoming standard nomenclature to desribe a wipeout. After reading about how decimation was used as punishment for Roman legions I doubt I can ever think of it that way, though.

[macarius5]

can understand that the excitement of "savouring" treat like wine reaction, the game is great though from start until prior to the harbinger encounter in london. It was really a let down of how a game that was so great could have that ending.

[whiteraider]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

At no point does the business owe the customer anything beyond the product working as intended because once the sale is complete, the customer has accepted the product and all its boons and flaws. Depending on whether the product is a PRODUCT or a SERVICE, there may be a term of contract involved. Depending on the nature of the PRODUCT, there may be a warranty period wherein the product is guaranteed to function as intended or else it is remedied by the producer.

The business owes the customer a product that matches the description, and working as intended.

The contention is do the ending/s match the description of 'not A,B,C', are  a result of the players actions, & fit with the universe created upto 20 minutes prior to the end of the game, & also do the 10/10 reviews match the game as delivered.

I content that the endings are A, A, A with a tiny twist, that this does not match the advertising, and that the game without the final 20 minutes is far from perfect, so the reviews are also a form of misrepresentation!
I'll ignore the plotholes that you could fly the combined Reaper & Commonwealth fleets through!

[PHub88]

Yup I am confused. Why are pro ID theory happy about this?

If there is no new ending. Assuming the ID theory is true...it cant be true now. Because if Shepard was indoctrinated then obviously this content would have to pick up after you take the breath or break the indoctrination...therefore continuing from there would mean it HAS to change the ending. So wtf am I not understanding. What? there gonna tell us he was Indoctrinated and not let us doing anything about it? That would be even worse.

[iJeffWuh]

That could be taken as Bioware avoiding the real answer. Say if they had planned to continue the ending they could say they are not changing it because it was already planned.

[CARL_DF90]

Yes, we know the ending is garbage. If their reputation is to be salvaged something needs to be done and soon.

[AlanC9]

whiteraider wrote...
I content that the endings are A, A, A with a tiny twist,

Tiny twist? It does involve transforming every single intelligent being in the entire galaxy.

As for the other two being the same, EDI would disagree. As would millions of other individuals.

[BronD69]

Must confess I'm as surprised with the ending as everybody else and have no understanding why Bioware would choose this path and looking at the big picture nor do they.That said if anyone can sort this out Bioware most certainly can and nobody can deny them that.So it's upto Bioware to do or not do as they feel .Come on guys you can do it....
It's far greater to have loved and lost than to of never loved at all!!

Modifié par BronD69, 28 mars 2012 - 06:12 .

[jakal66]

Sory but people who thought they were going to change the endings were dilusional.That was never going to happen.Closure is the way they were going to go all along, how will the do this?I have no idea but it will make them or break them...

IMO the IT is the only way to go now.

[oblique9]

I don't expect change. I expect elaboration... Lots of it. Like, it was a dream sequence, or something on that level. If I am ever to want to play the series again...

[StephanieBengal]

I really don't care personally, the ending could/should had been better or had more options.

Alas it didn't, life goes on and I'll be my own judge if I buy Bioware's next game or not on my own merit.

[D.I.Y_Death]

StephanieBengal wrote...

I really don't care personally, the ending could/should had been better or had more options.

Alas it didn't, life goes on and I'll be my own judge if I buy Bioware's next game or not on my own merit.

My thoughts too. Endings could have varied more and quite frankly with 3 unique endings I'm willing to bet the people disatisfied with the endings would be a lot less grumbly.
In short A+ for effort Bioware but the execution at the end was sloppy, much like ME2's gigantic terminator ending.

[Irx]

Anyone expecting indoctrination theory to be implemented is delusional, seriously.

We'll get *some* clarification into reaper motives (that crap can't really be fixed at this stage w/o rewriting teh whole thing, so its just a lil' bit of patching here and there), the fate of Normandy and probably races and some distinction between the endings - and that's it.