I can totally understand how you feel TheShadowWolf911 but I can imagine that a game developer goes for the majority that plays a game. Most people want to play a character they can relate to. I hope that Bioware puts in an option like in DOA to play a different race but I red a lot of threads that suggested that Bioware will start with a new protagonist that is human just like in DA2.
What role should the dwarves have in DA3?
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#27
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 05:50
Demx
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If we go underground I want to go to a dwarven city. See the sights, learn more of their culture, flirt with their women, get into a fight, and then thrown out of their city. You know the normal touristy thing.
#28
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 06:06
ev76
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Yeah in order to make a game with so much lore/story creation to potential protagonists etc, would take more than 2 yrs. I think it might be development deadlines that is the culprit as to why we don't have multiple choices. although I hope I am pleasantly surprised and there are options in DA3.
#29
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 06:22
TheShadowWolf911
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ev76 wrote...
Yeah in order to make a game with so much lore/story creation to potential protagonists etc, would take more than 2 yrs. I think it might be development deadlines that is the culprit as to why we don't have multiple choices. although I hope I am pleasantly surprised and there are options in DA3.
or, they could just make the backstory of the protagonist and the reason he appears feasible for all species.
like a human, elf, dwarf, or Kossith mercenary who was part of a multi racial mercenary company or something who goes on to 'insert what DA3 Protagonist goes off to do here'
Modifié par TheShadowWolf911, 24 mars 2012 - 06:22 .
#30
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 06:25
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I hope so to ev76. Only time will tell. Not to fast because the game would be rushed.
Modifié par sjpelkessjpeler, 24 mars 2012 - 06:31 .
#31
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 06:32
TheShadowWolf911
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i guess to put my last statement another way, 'use character backgrounds that are race neutral' then give us the choice. Bam, everyone wins.
#32
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 06:33
HiroVoid
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I would also think there would be an issue with camera angles due to the different races' heights.
#33
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Posté 24 mars 2012 - 06:42
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The developers can not put the dwarves on the back row because of the fact that they are the ones that deliver the lyrium. Templars and mages need it. If there is going to be a templar/mage war like they say dwarves could rule the world.
#34
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 07:09
ev76
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Yeah sjpelkessjpeler, my thoughts exactly. Definitely be a key to the war, they can pretty much turn the tide in favor of whomever they chose. Imagine a united front from the dwarves in such a way that Mage and Templars either ask for dwarven support or those factions take the lyrium by force.
Now orzommar might be a significant player, and as you pointed out earlier Sandal, how will he play into this being in Orlais?
As for ShadowWolf911 that is thinking outside the box, be cool if they can implement that. That would truly be a welcomed surprise.
Now orzommar might be a significant player, and as you pointed out earlier Sandal, how will he play into this being in Orlais?
As for ShadowWolf911 that is thinking outside the box, be cool if they can implement that. That would truly be a welcomed surprise.
#35
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 07:15
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Do not forget the dwarves of Kal Sharok. Maybe one will take sides with the mages and the other will take sides with the templars. This will equal the war again. But we still have the Qunari with their Gaatlok and the dwarves from Awakening with their powder.
#36
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 07:20
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Other than Kal-sharok, I see nothing new to add about the Dwarves.
#37
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 07:32
ev76
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Well Kal-Sharok is significant, and will surely also play a significant role in the war effort. Another topic would be the red lyrium how will that affect the war? That seemed to not go so well for certain characters in DA2. So many possibilities I'm beginning to think that the dwarves will rise from the depths when this is all said and done and make a run at taking over.
#38
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Posté 24 mars 2012 - 08:25
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I know you can relate to them. I've played other races in DAO and loved the experience. But we are talking about the majority here. A lot of people want to see a replica of themselve in a sence when playing an RPG.
#39
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 08:30
TheShadowWolf911
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sjpelkessjpeler wrote...
I know you can relate to them. I've played other races in DAO and loved the experience. But we are talking about the majority here. A lot of people want to see a replica of themselve in a sence when playing an RPG.
i'm aware of this, but still, simply igoring the minority of fans in favor of the majority in some cases isn't always a great idea.
and to be fair, how often is anyone able to replicate themselves decently appearance wise in a RPG?
#40
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 08:54
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Just look at an RPG-game as a democracy: most votes count.
#41
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 09:57
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ev76 wrote...
Pretty good idea to have someone that is not a Mage or might not be Templar/Seeker to be a protagonist. Maybe a dwarf that is big in the lyrium trade who will at some point turn the tide of the Mage/Templar war.
Unless they are going to do multi-race selection again, I can't see this happening. Dwarves can't be mages, so if they have a dwarf PC there are no PC mages either. Granted they haven't entirely ruled out the idea of multi-race for DA3, but they do seem to prefer the options that a single origin gives them as game designers. We'll just have to wait and see.
If they are going to go forward from the climax in Kirkwall and the events in Asunder to a full blown mage/templar war and its aftermath, I do hope we get to see some more of the dwarves. Quite some time ago there was a discussion thread on this topic and various people went on at length about the lyrium trade (and the dwarves not wanting to take sides in a human conflict -- since they don't have magic and controlling those who do isn't an issue for them) and how they will want to stay neutral as long as possible for the safety of their own people as well as topside business with the Chantry. There are also smugglers to take into consideration, and if there is a big push on the part of mages to try and deprive templars of their lyrium, it will be interesting to see how they combat this problem.
There are many possibilities for dwarven involvement in DA3. I also would like to see Orzammar again; it was certainly one of the more interestingly designed areas in DAO.
However, the main thing that excites me about any sort of dwarven involvement would be the inevitable lead into the Deep Roads and their connection to the darkspawn. Hints by Nathaniel in addition to things said in Legacy are too tantalizing to ignore. I'm hoping that the next game won't focus entirely on mage/tamplar issues and we can take a break and look at something else, like we had the Qunari in DA2. We spent the entirety of DA2 hearing about how we should fear mages, or trying to save the mages, and we got an entire book about mages. I'm sick to death of mages already (and I play one half the time), please give me some damned darkspawn I can fireball to the face without any remorse as an occasional reprieve.
#42
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:25
Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut
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Dragon Age 3 should be a game about dwarves where you play a dwarf.
#43
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 10:45
Uthenera
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It would be nice if they brought back the option of choosing your race, and sometimes, maybe before Origins they stated something like that if you like to play as an elf, than you should have the opportunity play as one. I don't think that would be too much opposition if they let you choose your race from Dwarf, Elf, Quanari (Kossith or someone converted), human or Fex i don't know much about the Fex, so don't sure how they would fit in but not against it.
Thoughts about dwarven roles in the conflict, as it was pointed out they sit on the lyrium and both the templars and the mages need it.
From their point of wiew the question is will they want to negotiate, winnig the favour of the dwarves for themselves or force they way in?
From the point of the dwarves which is more important increase in sales or decrase in customers, if they want to sale as much as they could, probably stirring up the conflict would be a good solution. In the short term it will make the money flow, but it has some drawback in the long, the fractions wipeing out each other completly, or they decide that they didn't hate each others as much as the greedy dwarves.
If they think its not a good thing for business if the potentional customers are killing each other, can they force them to negotiate peace, by denying lyrium trade to any party involved, or this just make the fighters turn against them thinking let's take care of the dwarves first than later we settle it beetwen us, each hoping that at the end they have the bigger share of the lyrium.
Maybe it was optional, but at the end of DA:O there were some talking about an Exalted March against the dwarves, so it's possible there are some tension between the dwarves and the Chantry. Was this plan completley forgotten or just postponed. If it would came to action, how they could do it? Is there any chance to any army from the surface to reach the remaining inhabited dwarven thaigs without getting wiped out or weakened dramatically by darkspawns, The quickest and safest way seems to be through the door in the Frostback Mountain, which means they have to march through Ferelden, would Ferelden join to such an expedition or take the side of the dwarves as a way to thank the help of the King of Orzammar during the Blight, if Ferelden fights with the dwarf could it result in another war with Orlais?
What are the Chantry, and the White Divine's plans? What if they came to that conclusion, that it's all nice & dandy that we have this army of lyrium-addict templars at our hands, but nowadays they cause more harm than worth wouldn't it be better to replace them with something better, accidents happens but the dwarves are immune to lyrium and quite resilient against magic, and good with fighting can they hire the Carta, or what remained from it, or a dwarven house to hunt mages and rebellious templars, seekers, clergywomen etc?
Bodahn & Sandal moves to Orlais and there are the Seat of the Divine so we will definitely meet with them. It's just me or poor Sandal became more scary/creepy. Who was the scary old lady? Flemeth? Leandra? Andraste? Meredith? The Divine? Someone else?
It's not entirely belongs to this topic, but the involvement of other races like the elves also have some interesting potential, the dalish have some problems with the templars constantly harassing them, but it's not impossible that they have some problem with appostates or abominations, if theyhelp to overthrow the Chantry, it could show some of the city elven converts, that they way is better, but will they be happy of the potentional empowerment of the Tewinter Imperium?
Thoughts about dwarven roles in the conflict, as it was pointed out they sit on the lyrium and both the templars and the mages need it.
From their point of wiew the question is will they want to negotiate, winnig the favour of the dwarves for themselves or force they way in?
From the point of the dwarves which is more important increase in sales or decrase in customers, if they want to sale as much as they could, probably stirring up the conflict would be a good solution. In the short term it will make the money flow, but it has some drawback in the long, the fractions wipeing out each other completly, or they decide that they didn't hate each others as much as the greedy dwarves.
If they think its not a good thing for business if the potentional customers are killing each other, can they force them to negotiate peace, by denying lyrium trade to any party involved, or this just make the fighters turn against them thinking let's take care of the dwarves first than later we settle it beetwen us, each hoping that at the end they have the bigger share of the lyrium.
Maybe it was optional, but at the end of DA:O there were some talking about an Exalted March against the dwarves, so it's possible there are some tension between the dwarves and the Chantry. Was this plan completley forgotten or just postponed. If it would came to action, how they could do it? Is there any chance to any army from the surface to reach the remaining inhabited dwarven thaigs without getting wiped out or weakened dramatically by darkspawns, The quickest and safest way seems to be through the door in the Frostback Mountain, which means they have to march through Ferelden, would Ferelden join to such an expedition or take the side of the dwarves as a way to thank the help of the King of Orzammar during the Blight, if Ferelden fights with the dwarf could it result in another war with Orlais?
What are the Chantry, and the White Divine's plans? What if they came to that conclusion, that it's all nice & dandy that we have this army of lyrium-addict templars at our hands, but nowadays they cause more harm than worth wouldn't it be better to replace them with something better, accidents happens but the dwarves are immune to lyrium and quite resilient against magic, and good with fighting can they hire the Carta, or what remained from it, or a dwarven house to hunt mages and rebellious templars, seekers, clergywomen etc?
Bodahn & Sandal moves to Orlais and there are the Seat of the Divine so we will definitely meet with them. It's just me or poor Sandal became more scary/creepy. Who was the scary old lady? Flemeth? Leandra? Andraste? Meredith? The Divine? Someone else?
It's not entirely belongs to this topic, but the involvement of other races like the elves also have some interesting potential, the dalish have some problems with the templars constantly harassing them, but it's not impossible that they have some problem with appostates or abominations, if theyhelp to overthrow the Chantry, it could show some of the city elven converts, that they way is better, but will they be happy of the potentional empowerment of the Tewinter Imperium?
#44
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 11:57
nightscrawl
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Uthenera wrote...
Maybe it was optional, but at the end of DA:O there were some talking about an Exalted March against the dwarves, so it's possible there are some tension between the dwarves and the Chantry. Was this plan completley forgotten or just postponed. If it would came to action, how they could do it? Is there any chance to any army from the surface to reach the remaining inhabited dwarven thaigs without getting wiped out or weakened dramatically by darkspawns, The quickest and safest way seems to be through the door in the Frostback Mountain, which means they have to march through Ferelden, would Ferelden join to such an expedition or take the side of the dwarves as a way to thank the help of the King of Orzammar during the Blight, if Ferelden fights with the dwarf could it result in another war with Orlais?
What are the Chantry, and the White Divine's plans? What if they came to that conclusion, that it's all nice & dandy that we have this army of lyrium-addict templars at our hands, but nowadays they cause more harm than worth wouldn't it be better to replace them with something better, accidents happens but the dwarves are immune to lyrium and quite resilient against magic, and good with fighting can they hire the Carta, or what remained from it, or a dwarven house to hunt mages and rebellious templars, seekers, clergywomen etc?
The Exalted March mentioned in one of the DAO epilogues is optional and only appears if you helped dwarven Brother Burkel establish a Chantry in Orzammar. The epilogue mentions that there is a riot during which he is killed, resulting in the Divine contemplating the March. Also regarding the darkspawn attracting templars who go on the March: they would have retreated when the Archdemon was killed, leaving parts of the Deep Roads somewhat safe for a while (this is what prompts Bartrand to do the expedition after all...), so that's not really an issue.
The main difference between templars and dwarves and the case for the Divine using one over the other is a single thing: the dwarves don't give a damn about the Chantry, the Divine, the Maker, or any of that, which makes them only as useful to the Divine as much as her coin can buy. It does not buy loyalty, or reverence, or inspiration. The templars, their belief in Andraste and the Maker, in addition to their lyrium addiction are what make them a useful tool. If you don't have legions of fanatics believing in a cause, they are less effective and less willing to follow.
#45
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 12:08
Arthur Cousland
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Oghren, Sigrun and Varric were some of my favorite DA companions, and so I'd like to see more of them in the future.
After their redesign in DA2, I wish that I could play as them again in their current form. Hopefully we aren't stuck with a human only option as the DA3 protagonist.
After their redesign in DA2, I wish that I could play as them again in their current form. Hopefully we aren't stuck with a human only option as the DA3 protagonist.
#46
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 12:12
Wulfram
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Dwarves in DA seem rather limited to me. You've got Orzammar, which is only really relevant if you're in Fereldan, Kal Sharok and a bunch of surface dwarves who might as well be short humans.
#47
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 12:24
Giltspur
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I'd like to know more about why the dwarves are cut off from the Fade and about the ways in which they're mistaken about their history.
KOTOR has a technologically advanced race that's cut off from the Force. That race was also connected to something Blight-like. So it's an idea Bioware has played around with before.
KOTOR has a technologically advanced race that's cut off from the Force. That race was also connected to something Blight-like. So it's an idea Bioware has played around with before.
#48
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Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:19
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DA3's protagonist should be a dwarf, and the entire game should revolve around dwarven politics.
#49
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 04:14
ShadyKat
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All I want is one damn female dwarf in DA3!
That would be one more that was in DA2....... Really Bioware you need to stop with the cutting out of females that are non human.
But overall dwarves should be a factor in DA3, and the player should be able to play as one, if they so choose.
That would be one more that was in DA2....... Really Bioware you need to stop with the cutting out of females that are non human.
But overall dwarves should be a factor in DA3, and the player should be able to play as one, if they so choose.
#50
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 05:14
Uthenera
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nightscrawl wrote...
Also regarding the darkspawn attracting templars who go on the March: they would have retreated when the Archdemon was killed, leaving parts of the Deep Roads somewhat safe for a while (this is what prompts Bartrand to do the expedition after all...), so that's not really an issue.
Yes, you are right i forgot that after a Blight the number of darkspawns tends to deplete and what happened in Amaranthine was an unusual thing, caused by the fight between the Mother and the Architect
In this case you are right again, it's a better thing if you have an army of obedient fanatics than some not so zealous mercenaries,nightscrawl wrote...
The main difference between templars and dwarves and the case for the Divine using one over the other is a single thing: the dwarves don't give a damn about the Chantry, the Divine, the Maker, or any of that, which makes them only as useful to the Divine as much as her coin can buy. It does not buy loyalty, or reverence, or inspiration. The templars, their belief in Andraste and the Maker, in addition to their lyrium addiction are what make them a useful tool. If you don't have legions of fanatics believing in a cause, they are less effective and less willing to follow.
What i've heard and seen in DA2 made me think it's not just a war "simply" between the mages and the templars, there are some problems with the number of deployeable templars. I don't know how many remained loyal to the Chantry, how many changed their allegiance to the mages, how many started to think, that the best if they take the matters into their own hands, they seemed rather desperate in this matter. In Orlais probably the situation isn't that dire, but in places far from the Seat of the Divine, could be really worse. Training new templars probably takes some time, so in the meantime, from who you asks help? Citizens? Militias? Watchmen? What are they chances against the rebels? The nobility has some trained man-at-arms, but what they would ask for it? Would the price worth it? There are some, who would thik that it's their duty to serve the Chantry, but probably not all. The quanaris are out of question. Dailish also. Giving weapon to the city elves maybe not the best idea, are they really devoted Andrasteans, what can you promise them in exchange for their services, which they can't take with weapons in their hands? This leads me again to dwarven mercenaries, wouldn't they be the best choice for the time being? Could it be a possible build-up to bring in a dwarven character, who was sent to the surface to take part in the stupid war of the stoneforsaken humans? Also can be a merchant. There are probably not many dwarven buttler running on the surface of Thedas, and neither dwarven exchange students in Circles.
