210 réponses à ce sujet

[WardenWade]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not to mention; if there were no more dwarves who would mine and refine the lyrium Thedas depends on?

Indeed.  IIRC raw lyrium normally kills mages outright, and drives non-mages insane.

[Circle_Mage]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

I secretely believe that's why the disciples were introduced; to fill up the space of the old gods to pull up the darkspawn. The architect caused the 5th blight with his knowledge (allthough it is still unclear if the architect was an intelligent darkspawn or a magister of old).

If DA3 goes to a mage/templar war another blight could bring the party back together with the dwarves as a binding factor in the whole story.

I think that's an excellent notion!  The disciples are clearly capable of organizing the darkspawn without an Old God.  That would definitely make the dwarves an essential part of the fight.  They know how to battle darkspawn and this would be sort of like a smaller Blight, but equally dangerous for Thedas.  The dwarves and their prowess against darkspawn would be critical.

Also, dwarves are just interesting in and of themselves, so it would be great to have them make a grand reappearance in DA3.

[Circle_Mage]

jmd4 wrote...

I feel the "kill all dwarves" notion is partly just trolling but also maybe comes from some sense that dwarves, as a traditional fantasy race, are dull and less special than, say, qunari. Also, there's this running theme of dwarves being extinct or nearly extinct in a lot of fantasy settings. That's what makes DA special, though--dwarves actually exist and are interesting.

I just don't want dwarves in future games reduced to greedy merchants or idiot ninja carta thugs, as has been mentioned above. We had too much of that in DA2 and the stereotyping really flew in the face of the richness of dwarven culture we got in DAO.

I too want the dwarves to be more than just mercenaries or merchants in DA3.  There can offer so much more than that.  In DAO, we saw dwarves in their own setting and it was great, and the storyline in Orzammar with Branka's quest for golems and the struggle for kingship between Bhelen and Harrowmont was fascinating.  It was also, in my opinion, the most difficult questline, with Broken Circle coming in a close second with that trip through the Fade.  So, yes, I'd love to see more dwarves in DA3 and to explore their world more. 

[WardenWade]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

WardenWade wrote...

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not to mention; if there were no more dwarves who would mine and refine the lyrium Thedas depends on?

Indeed.  IIRC raw lyrium normally kills mages outright, and drives non-mages insane.

Thinking about that. Sandal refines the red lyrium into a rune. You could say enchantment of course but I do not know; there has to be more to it than that. Bartrand and Varric weren't immune so.........

I wonder about that too...  Red lyrium seems to effect people very strangely, even compared to regular lyrium, but Sandal has no trouble with it.  IIRC he refines it rather quickly and easily, in fact.  Maybe it's his halfling nature? 

[WardenWade]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Heard about his halfling nature on other threads. Cannot backup anything about it from additional information. What is that all about; Sandal being a halfling?

I haven't played the Legacy DLC but I think it's touched on there.  I believe it's at least implied at some point that his other parent was a human or elf...if they perhaps had mage blood that could help to explain some things?  This and the possibility that he may be **SPOILER**  an estranged Aeducan is pretty intriguing   It makes the dwarf noble origin all the more relevant, I think.  Implies some interesting things for mages too, potentially

[Uthenera]

Das Tentakel wrote...

Whence the idea the dwarves pin down the darkspawn? That´s what some Dwarves say, but the Deep Roads are vast, and the Dwarves only hold on to a small part of it. With the possible exception of the immediate vicinity of the two remaining Dwarven cities, it seems to me the Darkspawn can pretty much do underground what they want. 
The main factor keeping them down appears to be lack of organization - hence the importance of an Archdemon, welding them into armies capable of taking on the forces of organized states, whether human or Dwarven.
Presumably under normal circumstances merely local forces, perhaps backed up by some Grey Wardens, suffice to keep them in check.

Maybe i used a wrong word with pin down? I don't know about too much entrance to the surface, one was in the basement of the Vigil Keep, one was used by the Tethras-Hawke Expedition and there's one which leads through Orzammar.
 I think Duncan said something about, that even the Grey Warden thinks that the dwarves sacrifice a lot constantly fighting against the darkspawns, and i think it's Rica, who mentions it to her sibling, that every noble she knows lost someone to the darkspawns, Kardol a commander of the Legion of the Dead, says that to them everyday is like the Blight on the surface.
Yes the darkspawns became extremly dangerous on the surface during Blights, but i think they should be a permanent problem if they could wipe out the defence of Orzammar. I think it's because of their numbers. 
While i don't know the exact facts about the reproduction cycle of the Broodmothers, to how many children they give life once, how often they give birth, etc, In DA2 Varric or Bartrand tells that there only a short window after a Blight, while the Deep Roads are relatively safe, from which i thougth it means that the Darkspawns replenish their number quite quickly.
Another thing, which makes me think, that their number, and ability to replenish their numbers are a huge problem, Blight or no Blight, because the best the dwarf could achieve against them is a stalemate at best. I think a dwarf are better warrior than the darkspawns, so why aren't they winning? Dwarves from the warrior caste and mostly the males from  the noble houses probably are the ones who are fighting, I don't know how many Silent Sister are  there or if they let women to fight if they are not part of the sisterhood, probably not everyone who'd like to fight against the darkspawns would like to cut out her tongue, so presumably not many noblewomen out there fighting. So they are most certainly outnumbered, 
In Orzammar probably a lots of animosity amongst the noble houses, but i think a reconquista would be a cause to unite them. It would do a lots of good, i think. If they would be able to reconquer some taighs or cities, the life in Orzammar would be more peaceful. If you are discontent with thing you'd have chance to move away, unlike now when you are confined to a place  with many other stressed indivdual. So why aren't they doing it?
I don't think they are cowards. The first Blight should have been a cultural shock, when they saw as the darkspawn hordes conquering their cities, as taigh fail after taigh, etc., and it could linger through generations, so it would be understandable if they'd feel some fear, but i don't think that is the cause, nor that they are outnumbered i  think trained warriors, even outnumbered should be able to win against a disorganized or poorly organized foe, unless the enemy have a continuous source of manpower, in this case it does no matter if you kills ten of them if there a twenty for them waiting to kill you, in this case the best you can achieve is to hold your positions. If it wouldn't be the case the dwarves would be on the attack for long, but they wouldn't fight a war if they knew that there are no end for the enemy.
If there wouldn't be a rapid reproduction of the darkspawns the dwarves could ask the Grey Wardens to help them locate the Broodmothers to wipe them out in the meantime, while they takes their time  to create a new army, it would've been a sound strategy, so why they didn't do it? Probably because at the time they reached the Broodmothers there would be an army around them. 
I don't say that the dwavres are the only one who can fight the darkspawns but without them the life topside would be really hard,
Maybe without a blight the darkspawns organized just as much as highwaymen or brigands, but if they could reach the surface without resistance only with their numbers, and with every woman they drag down, their number will grow, they would be able to destroy farmlands, small towns and everyone should have to live in walled cities, fortresses. 
I don't say this is the utmost truth, maybe i'm wrong but to answer your question this is why i've got the idea.  .



A dwarven reconquista would've been an interesting story too.

Modifié par Uthenera, 28 mars 2012 - 04:50 .

[Uthenera]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

I secretely believe that's why the disciples were introduced; to fill up the space of the old gods to pull up the darkspawn. The architect caused the 5th blight with his knowledge (allthough it is still unclear if the architect was an intelligent darkspawn or a magister of old).
.

With those fleshy things on the Architecht's  head isn't he looks a bit like Coryphaeus?
But this maybe means nothing.

The idol  is an interesting object, was it an ancient form of worship for all the dwarves, or this one was  just a sect. Was it occupied by some sort of demon, or spirit, or it gained its powers through worship, or it was made by dwarves the same way like the golems were made, attaching a soul?

Modifié par Uthenera, 28 mars 2012 - 05:16 .

[Uthenera]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

In that aspect little is known about the darkspawn. I suppose they need to eat and sleep but we do not know where they get their food from.

The dwarves have set certain borders which they defend against darkspawn so that they cannot enter Orzammar. In DAO the darkspawn emerged in Ferelden not through Orzammar. In DA2 the map you get from Anders says there are 7 ways to enter the deep roads near Kirkwall. So this would mean that there are a lot of openings that lead below.

Logically I would think that the former dwarven kingdom was almost as big as Thedas. Because the darkspawn emerged thoughout the entire continent during the several blights. I base this assumption on the fact that the darkspawn are using the deep roads and thaigs created by the dwarves.

A shame i totally forgot this, and if i rmember it corectly the ancient dwarven empire run all over Thedas, or a biger part of it. As for food they seems carnivorous, it's suggested that they eat the males they captures, and sometimes they've seen eating the dead, like the Ogre in the Tower of Ishal, so they probably eat everything which is meat, maybe even their own dead. 


^^
No problem we write it to discuss it with others, it's good to have nore opinion.
Also interesting theory.
And all this discussions  perhaps gives some suggstions to the writers and probably not that " Oh sodding stone we are creating games for idiots like theese maybe it's time to do something more productive, like giving dance lessons to polar bears"

Modifié par Uthenera, 28 mars 2012 - 06:34 .

[Teddie Sage]

I don't care about dwarves as long as Varric & Sigrun return. They're my least favourite race from the series. Both politically and physically.

[Uthenera]

Lyrium seems a good reason, it's possibly not an endless source, and if nugs didn't became a worldwide delicacy without lyrium the dwarves got into trouble, the topsiders seeks mostly lyrium and dwarven weapons, which also made by the using of lyrium, possibly they are trading some other minerals, but what else?

[TheShadowWolf911]

Uthenera wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote...

Whence the idea the dwarves pin down the darkspawn? That´s what some Dwarves say, but the Deep Roads are vast, and the Dwarves only hold on to a small part of it. With the possible exception of the immediate vicinity of the two remaining Dwarven cities, it seems to me the Darkspawn can pretty much do underground what they want. 
The main factor keeping them down appears to be lack of organization - hence the importance of an Archdemon, welding them into armies capable of taking on the forces of organized states, whether human or Dwarven.
Presumably under normal circumstances merely local forces, perhaps backed up by some Grey Wardens, suffice to keep them in check.

Maybe i used a wrong word with pin down? I don't know about too much entrance to the surface, one was in the basement of the Vigil Keep, one was used by the Tethras-Hawke Expedition and there's one which leads through Orzammar.
 I think Duncan said something about, that even the Grey Warden thinks that the dwarves sacrifice a lot constantly fighting against the darkspawns, and i think it's Rica, who mentions it to her sibling, that every noble she knows lost someone to the darkspawns, Kardol a commander of the Legion of the Dead, says that to them everyday is like the Blight on the surface.
Yes the darkspawns became extremly dangerous on the surface during Blights, but i think they should be a permanent problem if they could wipe out the defence of Orzammar. I think it's because of their numbers. 
While i don't know the exact facts about the reproduction cycle of the Broodmothers, to how many children they give life once, how often they give birth, etc, In DA2 Varric or Bartrand tells that there only a short window after a Blight, while the Deep Roads are relatively safe, from which i thougth it means that the Darkspawns replenish their number quite quickly.
Another thing, which makes me think, that their number, and ability to replenish their numbers are a huge problem, Blight or no Blight, because the best the dwarf could achieve against them is a stalemate at best. I think a dwarf are better warrior than the darkspawns, so why aren't they winning? Dwarves from the warrior caste and mostly the males from  the noble houses probably are the ones who are fighting, I don't know how many Silent Sister are  there or if they let women to fight if they are not part of the sisterhood, probably not everyone who'd like to fight against the darkspawns would like to cut out her tongue, so presumably not many noblewomen out there fighting. So they are most certainly outnumbered, 
In Orzammar probably a lots of animosity amongst the noble houses, but i think a reconquista would be a cause to unite them. It would do a lots of good, i think. If they would be able to reconquer some taighs or cities, the life in Orzammar would be more peaceful. If you are discontent with thing you'd have chance to move away, unlike now when you are confined to a place  with many other stressed indivdual. So why aren't they doing it?
I don't think they are cowards. The first Blight should have been a cultural shock, when they saw as the darkspawn hordes conquering their cities, as taigh fail after taigh, etc., and it could linger through generations, so it would be understandable if they'd feel some fear, but i don't think that is the cause, nor that they are outnumbered i  think trained warriors, even outnumbered should be able to win against a disorganized or poorly organized foe, unless the enemy have a continuous source of manpower, in this case it does no matter if you kills ten of them if there a twenty for them waiting to kill you, in this case the best you can achieve is to hold your positions. If it wouldn't be the case the dwarves would be on the attack for long, but they wouldn't fight a war if they knew that there are no end for the enemy.
If there wouldn't be a rapid reproduction of the darkspawns the dwarves could ask the Grey Wardens to help them locate the Broodmothers to wipe them out in the meantime, while they takes their time  to create a new army, it would've been a sound strategy, so why they didn't do it? Probably because at the time they reached the Broodmothers there would be an army around them. 
I don't say that the dwavres are the only one who can fight the darkspawns but without them the life topside would be really hard,
Maybe without a blight the darkspawns organized just as much as highwaymen or brigands, but if they could reach the surface without resistance only with their numbers, and with every woman they drag down, their number will grow, they would be able to destroy farmlands, small towns and everyone should have to live in walled cities, fortresses. 
I don't say this is the utmost truth, maybe i'm wrong but to answer your question this is why i've got the idea.  .



A dwarven reconquista would've been an interesting story too.

that would make a awesome mission in DA3, the Protagonists and his allies asist the grey wardens and dwarves in killing a few broodmothers.

[ev76]

I could see that happening, the retaking of thaigs. It would also help in the mining of lyrium. Since the templar/mage war seems massive in scope, the dwarfs might get help in retaking the thaigs just so they can get more quantities of lyrium for the war effort. It would be a big win for the dwarves.

[ev76]

I am in agreement with you sjpelkessjpeler there will be multiple races in this war I think the qunari will definitely take advantage and invade. Although I think they might ally themselves withe the chantry if tevintar goes and supports the circle mages. Leaving the dwarves to chose which side to be on. Unless the dwarves are split, like it has been mentioned here then the deep roads will get even more interesting if each sect of dwarves try to take the thaigs.

[WardenWade]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

I totally missed that in my playthrough. Also the "unknown child paragon" thing.

If all of this would apply on Sandal I like him even more. Imagine what the writers could do with him in the next installment....... Getting to carried away now I think.

Agreed!  There are a lot of possibilities...