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[musicalfrog7]

Worrywort wrote...

musicalfrog7 wrote...

Hm, thanks for the info on that.

Still....

Am I the only one who thinks that the conflict between mages and templars to be one of the LEAST interesting things about the DA universe? I won't to know MORE about the DA WORLD, not for the story to continue to dwell on the same tired old thing It feels like between DA:O and DA2 that the subject has been beaten into the ground. The dead horse has been flogged.

If anything is actually resolved in DA III with the two I will be very very surprised.

The templar vs mage conflict is one of my favorite things about the DA universe. It's something that I haven't seen in other fantasy settings. Considering there hasn't been an all out war between the mages and templars so far in the games, maybe in the lore but I'm not sure, it should bring something new to the table.

It is good to have. I personally prefer it as a side story, not the main story. When I think of Dragon Age, the conflicts between mages and templars aren't the first things that come to my mind. I can see why people would like it.

[Uthenera]

Maybe i'm short sighted in this, but how this mages vs. templars could decide the fate of the world?
If the mages win would this call the ire of the Maker, and tmeans the end of the world?
What if the templars, Chantry win they can kill mages, but they can't kill magic, this would probably means more apostates, more unchecked magic user for the future,
Either side wins probably means more war is coming.
Or with this war they have chance to tore apart the Veil? This one is possibly really dangerous thing to happen. 

Personally i find other storylines more interesting, than the mage-templar war, but if we are stuck with this:
It's possibly wouldn't be a wise decision or even a sane one, but do you think it's possible for the Chantry to send out the templars to arrest the dwarves on the surface and confiscate their lyrium stocks?
The Chantry probably could use that as a pretense, that Varric Tethras was a known accomplice of Anders, and with the idol the dwarves poisoned the mind of poor knight-commander Meredith, to provoke a war against the Chantry, because they are heretics etc.
Seizing the lyrium, probably would give a huge boost to the war effort of the Chantry at the beginning, but could they use the arrested dwarves as hostages to blackmail the dwarves in Orzammar, for further shipments of lyrium? Or they even take a risk and try to cut off Orzammar from the surface? 
Do they have a chance to cut  all ties between the mages and the dwarves?
How would Orzammar react to a situation like this, would they even care what happens on the surface?

Modifié par Uthenera, 01 avril 2012 - 09:31 .

[ev76]

I think what uthenera wrote in regards to varric and the hold using the idol in poor knight commander can be an interesting side plot. I also think that both sides might try to cut supply lines. Sjpelkessjpeler I did not know that Kal shamrock was near Orlais, that to me gives it a very strong possibility of making an appearance. Do you think Golems make an appearance i.e. Shale?

[Dessalines]

I think the OP post was wrong, about the role of dwarves did not get small in Dragon Age 2. The entire story is narrated by a dwarf.
I am agreeing that they should have bigger role in Dragon Age 3. The templars have revolted, and they are going to need their lyrium which the Chantry provided. You have an army of highly trained, religious zealouts that are addicted to lyrium roaming around, if they do not seek to secure shipments from the Dwarves than is going to be major missed storyline.

[ev76]

You read my mind sjpelkessjpeler, she would be a good pc, but how would she react to everything? Also would the dwarfs revisit making Golems for the war effort? That would be interesting side plot as well.

[ev76]

That is the beauty of Kal Sharok there are possibilities. How do you think Kal Sharok will be portrayed? Or for that matter another thaig that might be introduced. It would be interesting to see as you mentioned sjpelkessjpeler them using magic, maybe even creating Golems via magic?

[TheShadowWolf911]

so we are in agreement, Kal Sharok is important.........i always did want to see Kal Sharok.

[BubbleDncr]

I don't want to play as a dwarf. If the protagonist for DA3 was set as a dwarf, I would be pretty bummed out.

But I understand that for some people, that would make them happy, and I get that. I would rather have the DA3 protagonist set as an elf than a human, but I know many people cringe at that prospect (especially since the elf redesign). So I expect that if they do a set race, it will always be human, since less people will cringe than if it were an elf or dwarf.

Since I'm going with the belif that DA3 will have something to do with the mage/templar war, I think the best way to involve the dwarves is for you to go on a quest to convince the dwarves to supply lyrium solely to whichever side you're fighting for. And I would love it if they tied in that choice you made in Origins (I think it was sending the dwarf girl to the circle?) that could have resulted in Orzammar getting its own Circle. I mean, at this point, Apostate mages probably would have flocked there anyways to try and get lyrium - it could just be a little flavor thing of whether or not they were originally there peacefully or if they all came rushing in during the war.

[ev76]

I think they would fight the darkspawn that are trying to revive it sjpelkessjpeler. do you think we would see the architect siding with those darkspawn? How about flemeth? While everyone is fighting topside, and with the dwarfs drawn into yet another topside war, could that be enough of a distraction for flemeth to finally do whatever she is trying to do? Kal Sharok might be the starting point of something big.

[Das Tentakel]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote...

Uthenera wrote...

Well if the dwarves wouldn't pin down the darkspawns into the Deep Roads probably there would be more raid on the surface,for supply, for females i think the alphas could command something like a raid, without much trouble, and they numbers would grow in a faster rate, so probably the Blight would came in a quicker pace

Whence the idea the dwarves pin down the darkspawn? That´s what some Dwarves say, but the Deep Roads are vast, and the Dwarves only hold on to a small part of it. With the possible exception of the immediate vicinity of the two remaining Dwarven cities, it seems to me the Darkspawn can pretty much do underground what they want. 
The main factor keeping them down appears to be lack of organization - hence the importance of an Archdemon, welding them into armies capable of taking on the forces of organized states, whether human or Dwarven.
Presumably under normal circumstances merely local forces, perhaps backed up by some Grey Wardens, suffice to keep them in check.

Needed some time to reply to that one. Not sure if I'm heading in the right direction but.........

Here it goes;
The dwarves are defending the borders they've set against the darkspawn.
I agree that the darkspawn can do what they want beyond those borders. But the 5th old god was defeated by the warden and the other 2 left are still calling. The darkspawn in the deep roads are looking for the next old god/arch demon.
What if an old god was near/inside Kal Sharok? What would this mean for the dwarves? Are they into "the arch demon thing" or are they fighting the darkspawn who try to revive it?

That would actually be a neat idea. Alternatively, there might be one beneath Minrathous, and that might be a great background for, say, DA4 (if the franchise survives after  / revives with DA3).

I would hate that last thing, actually. For my on/off Savage Worlds fantasy setting-in-progress, I had thought up something similar to the Templar/Mage shtick, and DA:O pretty much ruined that for me:crying:.
Same with the sleeping God beneath the Imperial capital idea:(. So hope they stay away from that.

[Uthenera]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Uthenera wrote...

Maybe i'm short sighted in this, but how this mages vs. templars could decide the fate of the world?
If the mages win would this call the ire of the Maker, and tmeans the end of the world?
What if the templars, Chantry win they can kill mages, but they can't kill magic, this would probably means more apostates, more unchecked magic user for the future,
Either side wins probably means more war is coming.
Or with this war they have chance to tore apart the Veil? This one is possibly really dangerous thing to happen. 

That's a good question Uthenera.

The mages templar conflict can reshape Thedas politically and religiously I think.
Up until now the story revolved around Ferelden and the free marches. Both of wich follow the believes of the white divine in Orlais meaning they think Andraste is sitting next to the maker and magic should be controlled. The templars job is to watch and control the mages.

After the events in DA2 there has been a shift in that. A group of templars questions their role in this. There was you can say a schism between the templars.
The chantry in Tevinter has the black divine. They believe that magic must serve the greater goal so you can say that the mages are in control there. If a seriously big group of templars in the "white camp" has changed their point of view their leaning more towards the believes of "the black camp".

The chantry as we saw in DA2 acted as a middleman in the conflict. Templars fighting amoungst eachother due to their believes would compel the chantry to turn against the traitors in their ranks.
And here the mages come into the picture. There are mages who are perfectly happy with the way the circle in "the white camp" functions and there are mages who oppose that. They will choose sides in this too.

And Tevinter "the black camp" might want to expand their influence in Thedas by supporting the "black camp" supporters in the "white camp". This could change the way Thedas is ruled completely I think.
Or do you have another opinion on that?

Sorry for answering this late.

Yes it could influence the future of the politics and religion, even borders in a way, if the Chantry unable to handle the situation, it's role and whole future become questioned, if a country become weak by the conflict, its stronger neighbours could take some land from it, etc.
That's a lots of change, but how could it end the world? This is which i'm disturbed with?

Maybe i'm mistaken, but i guess that the rulers probably don't really want to get themselves involved in all this mess, what is important to them, that the peasants, freeholders, etc could sow, plow, harvest in peace, the fighters don't burn down the crop.The trade must flow, people could travel safely, harbours, warehouses, markets, villages, cities, don't get destroyed. probably they want this nonsense to end as fast as possible, the best course of action for them probably is to isolate the conflicts, and force the fighters to start peace negotiations.
"The common people pray for rain,  healthy children, and a summer that never ends.  It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace" as said by Ser Jorah Mormont, it's another universe, but i think the thoughts are probably the same, The common folk and the nobility probably also want peace, and don't care much what the templars and the mages do with each other, as long they don't disturbed by it, and if they don't get their peace soon they could reach the conclusion that's the best way to end this conflict, to finish off the disturber of the peace quickly .

 If my memory serves me well, than in Tevinter there are also Circles, but here the Magisters decide who lives and dies in the Circle. I don't think that the Magisters would be thrilled by the idea of more competion with the arrival of foreign mages. The best case for the Imperium it would be if the "black camp" would remain in their country, and they could blackmail with them everyone else. But to support them with money or other resources it's questionable, probably only if it worth it. Will they be happy with many mini Tevinter? Wouldn't it mean to many competition? What if the mages there become too strong, and wants a conquest? A territorial expansion is also comes to this, will it worth to conquer it? Will they be able to keep it, without the need of too much effort?
For the Imperium and those, who aren't affected directly by the conflict like the dwarves and the dalish the best thing to do would be to wait, until the end of the conflict to choose an action.
If they want to fight, i mean the Magisters, the dwarves probably wouldn't be interested to conquer the surface, but who knows, wouldn't be easier against a weakened and exhausted opponent?
Negotiating would be probably also easier in a situation like this, the survivors wouldn't be more permissive?





About Kal-Sharok what do you think the city, the buildings will be more like Orzammar or more like Kal-Hirol, or something totally different?

Modifié par Uthenera, 03 avril 2012 - 05:58 .

[Das Tentakel]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Das Tentakel wrote...

[snippity-snap]

Alternatively, there might be one beneath Minrathous, and that might be a great background for, say, DA4 (if the franchise survives after  / revives with DA3).

I would hate that last thing, actually. For my on/off Savage Worlds fantasy setting-in-progress, I had thought up something similar to the Templar/Mage shtick, and DA:O pretty much ruined that for me:crying:.
Same with the sleeping God beneath the Imperial capital idea:(. So hope they stay away from that.

Why would you hate the idea?

Mostly because I like getting credit for my work. That is harder when it looks as if I got it from somewhere else.
It's a silly ego thing, mostly.

sjpelkessjpeler wrote... 
And please explain what you mean with "I had thought up something similar to the templar/mage shtick and DAO pretty much ruined that for me."

Essentially the same basic idea as Mages as dangerous beings, under some sort of permanent guard and eliminated when proven dangerous. Not so much through demonic possession as becoming stark raving mad when they're at the pinnacle of their powers (insane Mage NPC's are much more fun than just plain old demonic possession:lol:). Again, the ego thing about not getting credit for my own ideas again;).

Anyway, I should just get on with it, before pen & paper roleplaying becomes extinct.

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 03 avril 2012 - 06:11 .

[ev76]

Yeah I think with corypheus now back, and the world in all out conflict, I think the magisters will look at it as an opportunity to regain their old glory. Will the tevinter empire seek an alliance with both kal sherok or orzommar? Maybe both it would certainly help the mages cause. Or what if Kal shero strikes a deal with Orlais, and they decide to attack ferelden and the circle there. Will orzommar be drawn in? Will the circle of ferelden stryke a deal with tevinter? Or will corypheus use his new body or form to draw the grey wardens in the fight? Things I think about sometimes, at work lol!