71 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Lore by definition is accumulated facts, traditions and beliefs about a particular subject. Lore does not always have to be true. Dwarves are not suppose to be able to enter the fade according to lore. The Dwarven noble character enters the fade the lore is proven wrong.

Or, it means that gameplay trumps lore. Are you saying that 'people who are exposed to Darkspawn blood get corrupted' is just a massive misconception the people of Thedas suffer from and that you could pretty much bathe in it (which is what melee characters do in this game) despite the ample evidence to the contrary?

I think it's far more likely that BioWare realized having all your companions die from the taint or become ghouls wouldn't make for a very fun story so they simply disregarded it.

[JamesX]

It is unclear how Dark Spawn Taint is transferred.

Confirmed Ways are



1) Getting Cut and have Dark Spawn Blood pour into the open wound.

2) Ingesting Dark Spawn Matter (their spit, flesh, blood, etc.)



Of the 2 the first seems much faster as a means of "infection" the latter seems much much slower. You could live off Dark Spawn Flesh for years without turning full Dark Spawn.



It seems that even immediate turning of Dark Spawn with Blood is not an immediate process. It might take a year or two to fully occur.

[Severance09]

You do go get 3 vials of the darkspawn blood. But they all go into a big goblet. Im inclined to believe that it would have a decent amount of blood for each initiate to drink. So Im guessing that you need to take in a good amount of the blood in one sitting for it to take immediate effect. Its not like your characters are stark naked, and ingesting the bodies and blood of everything they fight. You don't lick up whatever splatters on your face. And for all we know everyone in your party is infected. anyway It seems pretty obivous that everyone in your party is completely aware that they could potentially die in saving a country from an army of monsters.

[lv12medic]

Game mechanics win because Bioware secretly put in High intensity UV light sources in the game that kills off the taint before it affects your companions.



But more to the point, there isn't really a whole lot of information as to how people are tainted, how quickly it can happen or, for that matter, why some die in the Joining while others live. Atleast in Lore as far as I can tell, Humans, Elves, and Dwarves all probably have the same chance of surviving the Joining/Taint so its not race specific. If it is just by chance that some people's immune systems can fight it off while others can't then I guess all your companions are the lucky ones I suppose?



I say we need to send a scientific expedition into the Deep Roads and set up a laboratory to find out what is going on. And if something dangerous happens to leak out... we'll just have to use the Right of Annulment on the laboratory.

[Majspuffen]

I'm hoping that in the next game, all your allies will be grey wardens so that matters like these wont pop up. I don't think there's an explanation as to why your companions do not get infected by the taint. Perhaps it's just luck, or perhaps it's purely gameplay. Maybe all your allies (except for Alistair and Shale) are supposed to be ranged and never get into close combat

[Varenus Luckmann]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

I've had many a cutscene where there is darkspawn blood all over Alistairs face, including his lips.

As for the warden senses not tingling, I totally agree. How do those grenlok assassins sneak up on you if you can sense them?

Alistair is a Warden. Wardens are immune.

But why everyone else isn't infected despite being completely covered in darkspawn blood ten times over is a good question.

[Varenus Luckmann]

JamesX wrote...
Of the 2 the first seems much faster as a means of "infection" the latter seems much much slower. You could live off Dark Spawn Flesh for years without turning full Dark Spawn.

You don't turn into a darkspawn. You turn into a Ghoul.

[Jacks-Up]

imported_beer wrote...

MILD SPOILERS FOR THE BOOKS.


In The Calling, it takes the protagonists special potions to be able to fight the darkspawn without getting infected. My companions in the game did nothing of that sort. Many nearly died.

It is even speculated that a character from The Stolen Throne died because of the taint- just by getting injured by their hands.

Maybe they all did get infected and we'll meet them all as ghouls in the sequel.

Is there anyone from the books thats got out of that 0 year thing like the blood mage in wardens keep?

That guys a Warden and he's like 200 years old.

[PuffyTail]

It would have been a cool mechanic if Dog gradually fell ill due to darkspawn poisoning unless you gave him regular treatments to cure it (since it was established in an early quest that the war hounds were susceptible to poisoning).

[Curlain]

You party are the heroes, it's a rule that heroes don't die from sinkness or infections caught by scratches. It's why a tale like Robin Hood doesn't end with, on his way to end the Sheriff of Nottingham's reign of evil, Robin keelled over and died from a blood infection he caught from a wood splinter from an arrow.



Hero law defeats any inflection, even darkspawn taint, know fact

[ninjafast]

Depending on your origin, even the dog was infected with the taint from getting the blood in his mouth. Doesn't seem to bother him the rest of the game, it is a bit of a hole.

[Alneverus]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...
My signature wants a word with you.

Your sig is awesome.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Lore by definition is accumulated facts, traditions and beliefs about a particular subject. Lore does not always have to be true. Dwarves are not suppose to be able to enter the fade according to lore. The Dwarven noble character enters the fade the lore is proven wrong.

Or, it means that gameplay trumps lore. Are you saying that 'people who are exposed to Darkspawn blood get corrupted' is just a massive misconception the people of Thedas suffer from and that you could pretty much bathe in it (which is what melee characters do in this game) despite the ample evidence to the contrary?

I think it's far more likely that BioWare realized having all your companions die from the taint or become ghouls wouldn't make for a very fun story so they simply disregarded it.

And that's just bad planning. They could've easily construed a plot device to cover the hole up.

Should gameplay trump lore? Yes. Should lore contradict gameplay? No.

I still hate how I couldn't conscript and recruit Grey Wardens as we went along the story. Or any kind of representation of the army we recruited.

Edit: And anyone suggesting that mages should be more powerful than anything else that lives or breathes because "it's in the lore lol" is a complete idiot. The lore also suggests (at times) that mages can be possessed at the drop of a hat. Magic is powerful, yes. But far from all-powerful. They are powerful because of their overall utility, that is badly represented in the game.

Take Irving for a spin in the fade. First Enchanter. Bah.

Modifié par Varenus Luckmann, 01 décembre 2009 - 10:15 .

[Valaskjalf]

eschilde wrote...

Maybe it's only if you have open wounds.
My mages never get spattered, btw.

you've never used walking bomb

[Korva]

I agree that ignoring negative aspects of the lore (or negative consequences of actions/choices) is bad, and a personal pet peeve of mine. It breaks immersion, and often makes certain NPCs look incompetent/stupid if they oppose or warn about something that is only meaningless background fluff or, at best, fodder for a random sidequest or two.

I'm sure there would have been a way to incoperate the risk of the taint for non-Wardens, complete with sidequests over the course of the game and fodder for both PC/NPC and NPC/NPC conversations.

[Realmzmaster]

Actually some of your companions may never get the taint. Shale is a golem (no blood). Sten's race supposedly appeared (like the Borg). Sten's physiology maybe different enough to spare him from the taint. Remember Spock's copper based blood as opposed to iron based. (but this is speculation.) The Grey wardens are already tainted. The other companions would be a stretch. I doubt anyone would want to remind Wynne and other taint sick companions to take their medicine. Talk about breaking immersion.

[Herr Uhl]

Don't forget this thread either, http://social.biowar.../47/index/56082  it is also an STD.

[Korva]

How would it break immersion if you had to find a way to prevent your companions from dying or beinf ghouled by the taint, as opposed to completely ignoring that part of the lore? Consequences matter. I just hate it when a setting makes a big blah-blah-blah about the dangers and evils and risks and horrors (or, if you prefer, the advantages and powers and good things) about certain aspects of the world and then totally fails to implement that in any way except a random sidequest somewhere which has no bearing whatsover on the PC. What's the point?

And qunari definitely aren't immune to the taint unless the codex is deliberately wrong about a certain darkspawn type. *shudder*

Modifié par Korva, 04 décembre 2009 - 01:21 .

[Herr Uhl]

Korva wrote...

And qunari definitely aren't immune to the taint unless the codex is deliberately wrong about a certain darkspawn type. *shudder*

How they get qunari females is a mystery though. The deep roads must run extremely deep.

[eschilde]

you've never used walking bomb

OMG SPIES



Heh, if it bothers you you guys should try that nightmare plus project (unfortunately don't have the link handy) ... basically it limits how many lyrium potions you can ingest in game, and if I recall correctly you also have to ingest anti-taint potions every once in awhile. For the sake of gameplay I'm glad you can ingest unlimited lyrium potions >.>



At Ostagar, you can watch an officer give a lecture about darkspawn to some soldiers. He specifically says, "Don't even touch it," which could be because touching it is bad, or to prevent soldiers getting it in open wounds. I can't think of a place where it's specifically explained how the taint gets into your system.



I also agree with the thing about being able to sense darkspawn. They should show up on your map whether or not they're sneaking, if your taint is really 'working', survival style. Alistair never gives you any indication about where the darkspawn are grouped in the Korcari Wilds, and as PC after becoming a Warden you only get verbal cues once they're in range of sight. Not to mention, if an entire horde is moving one way or another, shouldn't you/Alistair/Riordan have been able to sense that before walking all the way to Redcliffe?

[David Gaider]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Or, it means that gameplay trumps lore.

This is essentially it.

Until rather late in the development process, we had a plan to take the possibility of party members developing the darkspawn taint. This would have possibly meant them facing the Joining at the Landsmeet... and while this might have been an interesting development it would also have been costly. Eventually we sadly put it aside, along with other things like lyrium addiction.

Insofar as getting the blight goes, it's never a guaranteed thing. Simply touching darkspawn blood does not automatically make you sick. You can get sick. In the case of your party members they just... don't. They're lucky. Not the ideal solution from a story standpoint, I know, but as is often the case when it comes to things such as gameplay and development cuts the lore is not always the deciding factor.

[Beren082]

HA HA!



taint

[Taritu]

David Gaider wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Or, it means that gameplay trumps lore.

This is essentially it.

Until rather late in the development process, we had a plan to take the possibility of party members developing the darkspawn taint. This would have possibly meant them facing the Joining at the Landsmeet... and while this might have been an interesting development it would also have been costly. Eventually we sadly put it aside, along with other things like lyrium addiction.

Insofar as getting the blight goes, it's never a guaranteed thing. Simply touching darkspawn blood does not automatically make you sick. You can get sick. In the case of your party members they just... don't. They're lucky. Not the ideal solution from a story standpoint, I know, but as is often the case when it comes to things such as gameplay and development cuts the lore is not always the deciding factor.

if there's a DAO 2, I'd LOVE to see lyrium addiction.  I mean, the way I had Wynne and Morrigan swilling back lyrium...

[RunCDFirst]

David Gaider wrote...
Eventually we sadly put it aside, along with other things like lyrium addiction.

This... would have been awesome!
(If incredibly difficult/impossible to implement)

[David Gaider]

Taritu wrote...
if there's a DAO 2, I'd LOVE to see lyrium addiction.  I mean, the way I had Wynne and Morrigan swilling back lyrium...

So would I. The implementation we had was that, if the addiction developed, the use of lyrium had diminishing returns. You needed more and got less. The problem we encountered, as you point out, is that mages pretty much needed to drink lyrium potions. Addiction was practically guaranteed. So there needed to be some method of dealing with the addiction without rendering it pointless, and ideally some kind of story implication...

...and you can see why it suddenly became costly. If we could come up with some other implementation that was meaningful, I'd like to see return in the future -- it was something templar characters were meant to face as well as mages, after all. Suggestions would be welcome... though perhaps in another thread.