492 réponses à ce sujet

[Kastien]

If I commission an artist to do a painting of a skyline, and he gives me a painting of a cat wearing a tophat and giving me the finger, why shouldn't I be well within my rights to force the artist to take it back and fix it?

[hurricaneez2]

I really dont see what the big deal is with doing a DLC to expand the ending. Bioware has already done it for DA:O, a game with a much better ending, for fans who didnt like how they handled Morrigan's ending. Witch Hunt was a direct result of the fans anger.

[slimgrin]

If anything, Bioware will change the ending to please game journalists, and to reap a higher score. There are numerous gameplay mechanics in ME3 that prove they don't give a sh*t about what the fans wanted to play.

Modifié par slimgrin, 25 mars 2012 - 12:05 .

[jaysabz]

OP here.

Listen, I hear what you guys are saying regarding a book, movie, etc.  The author / director takes advice from others before he or she releases the final product.
But how often is that final product released, and then CHANGED??
My favorite author is Stephen King.  I'm sure he changes up stories TONS of times based on feedback from his publisher / friends / family.
But once that book is released, if the general public is dissatisfied, does he re-write a part, or the ending??  NO.
If this "change ME3's ending" campaign succeeds, it'll just empower other overly-entitled internet people to do the same for movies, TV shows, books, other games.....
It's a slippery slope people.

Vote with your dollar.  But this dissatisfied mob mentality is worrisome to me.

[streamlock]

To OP and all the other 'art' argument folks out there.

The ultimate reason for these bespoke railroaded endings was not purely an artistic expression or creative interpretation of the IP. A decision was made that for future use of the IP, it made the most sense to reset (akin to a reboot) the franchise to make content going forward-whether it is an MMO, ME4, Mass Effect 10k, whatever easier and cheaper. It made good fiscal sense from a cooperate objective point of view.

Now, I'm not going to bash EA here, they are a publicly traded company and are required by law to provide maximum return for their shareholders investments. They, and as an extension Bioware are doing the right thing from a purely business standpoint (Alienating your customers is not good business, but that is another topic)

But it is high time 'bull****e" is called on this whole art argument-because that is exactly what it is. Complete and utter horse bullocks.

The reason Sheppard's story ended in such a spectacularly cataclysmic way was to promote the corporate interests of the company going forward. Weather that be DLC, MMO's, or sequels. This is a case of cooperate and business interests interfering and hamstringing the artistic expression and creative process of its creators.

Art has lost. And the reason it lost is more depressing and ultimately damaging then anything the community or customers have done, or could do. It is unfortunate that while everyone is so caught up in things, that another example corporate destruction of artistic expression has been swept under the rug by clever PR and careful manipulation of certain media outlets.

It can be argued that what was envisioned under those oppressive constraints in and of itself was a form of artistic expression of the developers, hamstrung or not. And If that argument is valid (and it does have some ground to stand on) then by modifying the ending-creative expression has been dealt not one-but two blows.

The only, only way for art to win in this case is for the creators of the content to ignore both corporate and outside influence. Only when freed from both these shackles could they ever hope to reach their maximum potential in artistic expression.

In this case art lost before the work on it had even started. And counter to all this misdirected 'art' arguments as it pertains to changing the ending of ME3-the only way to restore it would be for Bioware to go back and recraft their vision free of every (reasonably) constraint-both internal and external. Only then will 'art' win, and integrity to the creative process restored.

[Arik7]

jaysabz wrote...
But once that book is released, if the general public is dissatisfied, does he re-write a part, or the ending??  NO.
 

Definitely YES - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle brought Sherlock Holmes back to life as a result of fan feedback.  And his book was TRUE art, not stolen from a stupid song like Casey Hudson's "star child" idea.

[Rockworm503]

Arik7 wrote...

jaysabz wrote...
But once that book is released, if the general public is dissatisfied, does he re-write a part, or the ending??  NO.
 

Definitely YES - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle brought Sherlock Holmes back to life as a result of fan feedback.  And his book was TRUE art, not stolen from a stupid song like Casey Hudson's "star child" idea.

Apperantly Mass Effect is more art than Sherlock 

[LiquidLogic2020]

I love it when the uncultured masses cry out "GAMES ARE ART, NOT PRODUCTS".

[OmegaBlue0231]

Arik7 wrote...

jaysabz wrote...
But once that book is released, if the general public is dissatisfied, does he re-write a part, or the ending??  NO.
 

Definitely YES - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle brought Sherlock Holmes back to life as a result of fan feedback.  And his book was TRUE art, not stolen from a stupid song like Casey Hudson's "star child" idea.

Not to mention authors often have different editions of their books where some details might be different depending on fanfeed back or incosistancies that managed to slip by the author and editor (see Mass Effect Deception).

[jaysabz]

Well, if we're talking about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle from about a hundred years ago or a ME book that had clear discrepancies, then my position has no validity, right?!    You got me!

[translationninja]

With the art BS again.

Arthur Conan Doyle has been mentioned a lot, fewer people know that J.R.R Tolkien retcon'ed The Hobbit to make it play into LOTR better, cheez lawees why are some people so afraid of customers of a big corporation being able to tell them what they want?

[translationninja]

jaysabz wrote...

OP here.

Listen, I hear what you guys are saying regarding a book, movie, etc.  The author / director takes advice from others before he or she releases the final product.
But how often is that final product released, and then CHANGED??
My favorite author is Stephen King.  I'm sure he changes up stories TONS of times based on feedback from his publisher / friends / family.
But once that book is released, if the general public is dissatisfied, does he re-write a part, or the ending??  NO.
If this "change ME3's ending" campaign succeeds, it'll just empower other overly-entitled internet people to do the same for movies, TV shows, books, other games.....
It's a slippery slope people.

Vote with your dollar.  But this dissatisfied mob mentality is worrisome to me.

Stephen King made plenty of changes in the Dark Tower series after they were released. E.g. "the beast" becoming the "Crimson King"...

know thy author before thou quotest


ps sorry for double-posting...

Modifié par translationninja, 25 mars 2012 - 02:16 .

[jaysabz]

translationninja wrote...

With the art BS again.

Arthur Conan Doyle has been mentioned a lot, fewer people know that J.R.R Tolkien retcon'ed The Hobbit to make it play into LOTR better, cheez lawees why are some people so afraid of customers of a big corporation being able to tell them what they want?

I'm sorry if I'm being misunderstood here.  I DO believe that customers of a big corporation should be able to tell them what they want.

What I'm afraid of is this:   if this "change ME3's ending" campaign succeeds, who knows where it will end.

What if we don't like Halo 4's ending?  GTA5?  BioShock:  Infinite?

I understand that consumers at times have legit complaints.  But if these companies allow the vocal internet crowd to alter their completed games (books, movies, etc.) then what is real when it comes to that game, book or movie?

I understand that video games, in the DLC area, are the mediums most susceptible to this.  But with many of the other mediums changing (e.g., books through Kindle, movies through the 'net) are these pieces going to be ever-changing? 

Can I complete a video game and know it's complete?  Can I finish a book and know I've read it, without having to check every few months if a "new ending" or "additional content" is available for it??

That is my fear.  I'd hope that at least some of you share that fear with me.

[Hunter of Legends]

jaysabz wrote...

Vote with your dollar.  But this dissatisfied mob mentality is worrisome to me.

It's called capitalism.

I see no problem with the fans also known as customers being dissastisfied and asking for a refund/new ending.

[Hunter of Legends]

jaysabz wrote...

What I'm afraid of is this:   if this "change ME3's ending" campaign succeeds, who knows where it will end.

What if we don't like Halo 4's ending?  GTA5?  BioShock:  Infinite?

None of those games selling point is about player choice and variation of stories.

So no.<_<

[jaysabz]

And how do you reply to this concern of mine:

Can I complete a video game and know it's complete? Can I finish a book and know I've read it, without having to check every few months if a "new ending" or "additional content" is available for it??

That is my fear. I'd hope that at least some of you share that fear with me."

[OmegaBlue0231]

^ You same way you never could since the introduction of expansion packs back in the day.

[Hunter of Legends]

jaysabz wrote...

And how do you reply to this concern of mine:

Can I complete a video game and know it's complete? Can I finish a book and know I've read it, without having to check every few months if a "new ending" or "additional content" is available for it??

That is my fear. I'd hope that at least some of you share that fear with me."

When you choose to end it.

No one said you had to buy the ending DLC; the whole point is letting PLAYERS CHOOSE to end it/how to end it.

[kbct]

"Art doesn't end with an advertisement to buy more DLC."

[Arsenic Touch]

jaysabz wrote...



What I'm afraid of is this:   if this "change ME3's ending" campaign succeeds, who knows where it will end.

You do realize that this wouldn't be the first time a video game ending was changed, right?

[Hunter of Legends]

kbct wrote...

"Art doesn't end with an advertisement to buy more DLC."

Art also doesn't have celebrity voice actors placed in to appeal to a certain niche market/base instinct.

[Rockworm503]

jaysabz wrote...

translationninja wrote...

With the art BS again.

Arthur Conan Doyle has been mentioned a lot, fewer people know that J.R.R Tolkien retcon'ed The Hobbit to make it play into LOTR better, cheez lawees why are some people so afraid of customers of a big corporation being able to tell them what they want?

I'm sorry if I'm being misunderstood here.  I DO believe that customers of a big corporation should be able to tell them what they want.

What I'm afraid of is this:   if this "change ME3's ending" campaign succeeds, who knows where it will end.

What if we don't like Halo 4's ending?  GTA5?  BioShock:  Infinite?

I understand that consumers at times have legit complaints.  But if these companies allow the vocal internet crowd to alter their completed games (books, movies, etc.) then what is real when it comes to that game, book or movie?

I understand that video games, in the DLC area, are the mediums most susceptible to this.  But with many of the other mediums changing (e.g., books through Kindle, movies through the 'net) are these pieces going to be ever-changing? 

Can I complete a video game and know it's complete?  Can I finish a book and know I've read it, without having to check every few months if a "new ending" or "additional content" is available for it??

That is my fear.  I'd hope that at least some of you share that fear with me.

If the industry doesn't make it a trend to promise us something and then end their games with something radically different from that promise than your fear has no merit.
The true fear is if game companies think they can get away with it why would they bother finishing what they started?

[Alexraptor1]

“Art is never finished, only abandoned.”
- Leonardo Da Vinci

If you insist on calling ME3 art that is.

Modifié par Alexraptor1, 25 mars 2012 - 02:47 .

[d.nichols]

Ah, yes... "Artistic Integrity" we have dismissed these claims