492 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurica]

jaysabz wrote...

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet, been travelling, but please read on.

Jason

Oh... you should complete the game then. 

[Aloren]

ME was always advertised as a trilogy in which your choices mattered.
As of now, they don't really matter.

This has nothing to do with Misery and art losing. This has nothing to do with X or Y character dying in other works of fiction. Especially not any other game you quote. FF games, or Halo Reach are not the same kind of game. You follow the story, you enjoy it or not, you can be upset about it, but it's the story as it was intended to be, and you're never told "this is your story".
In ME, you are. And it pretty much succeeds at making you feel like it is your story and your Shepard for 2.99 games. You can't expect people to say "oh ok" when all the personal investment you put in this story in thrown back in your face in the last 5 minutes.

I think you'll understand better once you've finished the game. Actually, you should have waited before creating this thread...

And also, dozen's of "work of art" were changed to please the fans. Whether it's called Sherlock Holmes, Dallas, or Fallout 3, it's still nothing new. And it rarely was as legitimate as it is in this particular case.

[Bathorite]

"Where was Bioware’s artistic integrity when they decided to cut out part of the game and sell it as DLC. Where was their artistic integrity when they decided the last two words you saw were downladable content and not The End. Where was their artistic integirty when they decided to hold a fan voted beauty contest to decide what female Shepard would look like.

If Bioware wants to use artistic integrity as a defence then they should have maintained that integrity through every stage of the game’s development, not just when it suited them."

This was posted by a user named Madcat on the Kotaku comments. I think he has a point...

Modifié par Bathorite, 25 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

boooom.

[bigbade]

You should not post if you don't know what you're talking about (the ending), this discredits you entirely in the eyes of many and for good reason.


Finish the game, and if you're still going to stand by that art argument, go learn what art is all about.

I didn't write this, but it's a good read imo (hence why I posted it):

http://social.biowar...8708/1#10608708

Modifié par bigbade, 25 mars 2012 - 06:59 .

[o Ventus]

The second the master disc is used for replication and the game is shipped out to generate revenus, it stops becoming art. It then becomes a product of sales.

Please, stop infesting these boards.

[InvincibleHero]

All you people attacking the person saying he did not play the ending so his opinion is irrelevant are wrong. I bet you comment on professional sports, football, baseball, soccer etc yet you do not play at the professional level so you need to never post on subjects you are not directly experiencing and at the same level or be a hypocrite.

I am not Einstein yet I can learn about his theories and commment about them. He obviously has knowledge about the endings and can have the opinion it will not bother him because he is mature enough to accept BW is creator of the art via writing. Writing or art can be criticized on its relative merits or flaws. Let's address salient points and not try to discredit people because that is just an attack on a user.

[sagevallant]

jaysabz wrote...

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet, been travelling, but please read on.

I do check IGN's mobile site from my phone here and there and have learned about this "uprising" to change the ME3 ending.

PLEASE, PLEASE, Please do not change the game's ending (sight unseen for me) just because of these protests! 

If you do, where do we go from there??

We live in such a self-entitled "please me" society these days.  BIOWARE, you made these games.  I understand the need to please your customers - I myself am in the service industry.  But PLEASE do not fold to the demands of the loud social networking / internet crowd.  It will set a dangerous precedent.

Even within the realm of video games... NOOO... we want character "X" (FFVII) to live...

...NOOO... we want character "X" to survive in Halo Reach....

Where will it stop? 

DO NOT alter your art.  Look at the state of the Star Wars series with all the crappy revisions over the years.

Tell your player base to "DEAL WITH IT" ... 

I've read TONS of books that I hoped ended differently.  I never wrote to the author of a book and demanded he or she rewrite the ending to meet my demands.

On that topic, one very good author wrote a book about that situation.  It was Stephen King, and the book was "Misery".  The woman found her favorite author crippled and kept the author all locked up and in his bed and would re-break his legs b/c she was never happy with what he was doing with her favorite character.

Dont' fall down this wormhole, BIoWare.   Please don't.  You made the art which is Mass Effect 3.  Don't alter it due to some loudmouth advocates.  Not all video games are "art", but the Mass Effect series certainly is.  To quote a line from my favorite movie, Rushmore... "nihilne sanc­tum est"...  "Is nothing sacred?"

Do the right thing, BioWare.

A big fan of yours for years....

Jason

So... you ever finish the game and decide you want it changed? 

[Sidac]

jaysabz wrote...

Tell your player base to "DEAL WITH IT" ... 

AGREED 100%

The endings were good. Just sucks that some players don't like critical thinking.

Modifié par Sidac, 27 mars 2012 - 07:42 .

[Deflagratio]

Ah, the "Art" Argument. Spoken by people who don't realize that gaming is a commercial art, and publishers already "Violate" the integrity of the original content. How quaint and naive.


I want them to alter the ending only if Bioware as artists actually want to. In the age of DLC, Patches and mods, it's kind of stupid (okay, really stupid) to draw a line that a "Finished" project is finished simply because it's retail.

For all anyone knows, Bioware has serious doubts about their own ending, and the backlash gave them the leverage they needed to see things through to their original, desired end.

Modifié par Deflagratio, 27 mars 2012 - 07:44 .

[nikki191]

i fnally understand the ending and the point bioware were trying to make. the whole time we are being told its your shepards journey where your choice matters, but the truth ive learned is that its just a product and its biowares shepard and biowares story. dont get emotionally invested in aa bioware seriesseries, dont care about the characters bioware creates, its just a toy and just a product.

thank you bioware for teaching me that. it is a lesson i wont forget

Modifié par nikki191, 27 mars 2012 - 07:45 .

[Tuthsok]

If Bioware had to change anything during the course of production due to budget or deadlines "art" had already been lost.

[Subass36]

how about you finnish the game first and then come back to us >_>

[Novouto]

Video games have evolved into an in depth interactive medium between creator and the consumer. Calling it "art" is a mislabel. You can't compare games to books, paintings, and films. Because they are stories being told to you, whereas games are something you are actively involved in. How can you say they should "deal with it" when you take away or force them to do something that violates the theme of the mass effect series?

The argument that people just don't get because they're not smart enough is so ridiculous it boggles the mind.

[78stonewobble]

I find the whole "art" thing ridiculous...

Whether it's art, product, both or something else entirely an indeterminable amount of people found it worse due to the ending. Thus changing the ending would make the whole better to these people.

That said I don't think people have the right to demand a change but rather the right to suggest a change for the better (in their oppinion).

[wright1978]

While i accept Bioware are the creators of the ME product and therefore get to decide if they are going to make changes to the endings. As a customer i'm perfectly entitled to give them feedback as to why i find their endings both far too lacking in variety and appallingly poor in implementation and execution. I completely disagree that somehow if they see a way they can improve upon endings and provide a more satisfactory game experience that this is somehow wrong.

[Saberchic]

1st- You need to finish the game to see the problems we have with it.

2nd- They outright lied about the endings. It was misleading, and they broke their promises.

3rd- It's not art. They went for sensationalism. There's a difference. And it failed. Miserably.

[DaJe]

The ending is not art. Mass Effect was art right up until the ending thrw everyting out of balance for monetary reasons.

And ending that tells you to buy DLC IS NOT ART.

[Kajan451]

78stonewobble wrote...

I find the whole "art" thing ridiculous...

Whether it's art, product, both or something else entirely an indeterminable amount of people found it worse due to the ending. Thus changing the ending would make the whole better to these people.

That said I don't think people have the right to demand a change but rather the right to suggest a change for the better (in their oppinion).

Cooking is also Art that creates a product. The line is thin there as well....

And when i am sitting at a restaurant and get a salted steak, my fries fried in old oil and frozen peas, i am too demanding them to serve me a proper dish. Its my right to demand such and there is nothing wrong about it.

Of course its their right to refuse my demand, but then i am unlikely to visit that restaurant again.


Same situation applies here. Yeah what they do is Art, as much as a cook produces Art when he cooks, but when i don't like the taste i can demand a redo, its my right as their customer.

Its they right not to do it, but they'll loose me as customer. Their reason for refusing it, doesn't matter to me.


I've had two spoiled meals in this restaurant, and if they refuse to produce something eatable, for whatever reason, i will simply refuse to consume here in the future. Its not like they are the only ones out there.

[chengthao]

jaysabz wrote...

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet, been travelling, but please read on.

lol

in for a big shocker

[Kastigar]

The "art" argument shouldn't even apply. I can pretty much guarantee you that some suit or bean counter has pulled rank over the creative process and had something added or removed to bolster sales. This doesn't even apply only to Mass Effect. It isn't one artist's vision, or even multiple artists vision. It is a vision shaped by consumers, corporate execs, potential earning, artists, etc.

You can't violate the artistic integrity of something, when literally every aspect of it can/could have been changed by someone more concerned about the bottom line.

For a better version of what I mean: http://www.forbes.co...commercial-art/

[BurnOutBrighter]

No.

The current ending is a monumental failure, and its existence actually damages the artistry of the rest of the series. We want an ending/s worthy of the Mass Effect name.

[neilthecellist]