492 réponses à ce sujet

[78stonewobble]

Kajan451 wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

I find the whole "art" thing ridiculous...

Whether it's art, product, both or something else entirely an indeterminable amount of people found it worse due to the ending. Thus changing the ending would make the whole better to these people.

That said I don't think people have the right to demand a change but rather the right to suggest a change for the better (in their oppinion).

Cooking is also Art that creates a product. The line is thin there as well....

And when i am sitting at a restaurant and get a salted steak, my fries fried in old oil and frozen peas, i am too demanding them to serve me a proper dish. Its my right to demand such and there is nothing wrong about it.

Of course its their right to refuse my demand, but then i am unlikely to visit that restaurant again.


Same situation applies here. Yeah what they do is Art, as much as a cook produces Art when he cooks, but when i don't like the taste i can demand a redo, its my right as their customer.

Its they right not to do it, but they'll loose me as customer. Their reason for refusing it, doesn't matter to me.


I've had two spoiled meals in this restaurant, and if they refuse to produce something eatable, for whatever reason, i will simply refuse to consume here in the future. Its not like they are the only ones out there.

Njyaaarj I see your point.

You could say the game / meal was "faulty" but I more view it like ... you asking for the addition of extra salt due to a personal preference eg.

[Kajan451]

78stonewobble wrote...

You could say the game / meal was "faulty" but I more view it like ... you asking for the addition of extra salt due to a personal preference eg.

*Shrugs* thats why most restaurants either have salt & pepper on your table or bring you such on demand

Demanding to get some extra salt, or no tomatos, peas or whatever is quite normal in a restaurant too. I really find nothing wrong with demands of a customer. After all... buisness is all about demand and supply.

[djarlaks10]

The current ending is not art, it's lazy writing with lost of plotholes. And lazy writing deserves to be changed.

[JexyG]

Hilarious. Said the guy who hasn't finished the game... not to mention... Art Vandelay?

[RenownedRyan]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Hey. Sir Author Conan Doyle wants to speak with you about when he retcon'd Sherlock Holmes death for his fans.

He's upset that you think he ruined art. Why would you say that?

[Glyre]

Wait...so "art" excuses a bad ending? Of course there have been situations in the past when people have disliked endings or events, as the OP addressed in his post. Yet in all of those situations the issue, whatever it was, was resolved and handled properly. Now, there will always be people who get upset over a GOOD tragic ending, or a NECESSARY character death. But, see, ME3's ending wasn't really good, and it definitely wasn't in character with the rest of the series.. It provided almost no closure, and definitely not enough considering how much time people have invested in the series, not to mention the fact that, whether or not they really were, a lot of people came to feel as if they were "co-artists" of the characters and story. I'm sure, too, that a lot of people who are upset with ME3's ending very rarely complain about sad endings or the death of a character. I know this is the first time I have really been upset over an ending to the point where I think it needs to be changed or at the very least expanded upon.

[AstraDrakkar]

Ok, I'm an old DA player and ME3 is my first introduction to the ME series. I just finished playing through ME3 for the first time and here are my thoughts. I enjoyed the game, although it took me about a third of the game to figure out just how to play it, since i have no prior experience with ME. I would suggest that Bioware take that into consideration in the future.

As for the endings, yes it could have been better. Now it wasn't that bad in my opinion, but I do think there should have been more variety to the endings. My biggest complaint is the lack of closure regarding what happened to the team members afterward. I would have liked to have had some kind of follow up on what became of them.

I can't comment on plotholes because I haven't played ME or ME2.

[neenee77]

mebtru wrote...

jaysabz wrote...

A big fan of yours for years....

Jason

A big fan that dont have any registered games.

0/10 fail troll

Not necessarily. he signed up in 2010. I cant register my me2 and me3 copy because its on my hubands account, even though I bought the games and pre-ordered under my name. I also have to play on his account as I cannot transfer any of my dlc's over on the ps3 (have to rebuy everything). its ridiculous. so I just give my trophies away to my man and he gets mad about it. and on here its so complicated to merge accounts that I stopped caring. I think he is just a fan like all of us and he is defending what he doesn't understand yet. I did it too.

Modifié par neenee77, 27 mars 2012 - 11:01 .

[Ibn_Shisha]

jaysabz wrote...

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet, been travelling, but please read on.

I do check IGN's mobile site from my phone here and there and have learned about this "uprising" to change the ME3 ending.

PLEASE, PLEASE, Please do not change the game's ending (sight unseen for me) just because of these protests! 

If you do, where do we go from there??

We live in such a self-entitled "please me" society these days.  BIOWARE, you made these games.  I understand the need to please your customers - I myself am in the service industry.  But PLEASE do not fold to the demands of the loud social networking / internet crowd.  It will set a dangerous precedent.

Even within the realm of video games... NOOO... we want character "X" (FFVII) to live...

...NOOO... we want character "X" to survive in Halo Reach....

Where will it stop? 

DO NOT alter your art.  Look at the state of the Star Wars series with all the crappy revisions over the years.

Tell your player base to "DEAL WITH IT" ... 

I've read TONS of books that I hoped ended differently.  I never wrote to the author of a book and demanded he or she rewrite the ending to meet my demands.

On that topic, one very good author wrote a book about that situation.  It was Stephen King, and the book was "Misery".  The woman found her favorite author crippled and kept the author all locked up and in his bed and would re-break his legs b/c she was never happy with what he was doing with her favorite character.

Dont' fall down this wormhole, BIoWare.   Please don't.  You made the art which is Mass Effect 3.  Don't alter it due to some loudmouth advocates.  Not all video games are "art", but the Mass Effect series certainly is.  To quote a line from my favorite movie, Rushmore... "nihilne sanc­tum est"...  "Is nothing sacred?"

Do the right thing, BioWare.

A big fan of yours for years....

Jason

There is a big difference between art created solely for self-expression and commercial art.  Commercial art has to find a balance between artistic expression and consumer demand.  This is especially true when the commercial artist makes a series of statements regarding a critical aspect of the piece before its debut, and follows up on none of them.  False advertising is not included in artistic license or integrity.

An analogy.  Let's imagine Bioware is getting a new office building.  They commission an artist to paint a lobby mural of the Edmonton cityscape.  After meeting with the artist, telling him their ideas, listening to ideas he has to make it his own while still keeping it within the parameters they want, and finally agreeing on price, they let him get to work.  Finally, the big day comes.  The Bioware staff enters their new building, and what sight greets them?  Not the cityscape mural they agreed upon and WERE PROMISED.  Instead, they see various religious figures smeared across the walls in what appears to be human excrement.  I seriously doubt Dr. Muzyka, Casey, or anyone in Bioware would say, "Hey, this isn't what we wanted, or what you told us we were getting, and we really don't like it, but you're an artist, so even though we paid for something else and got this instead, we have no right to complain, ask you to fix it, or ask for our money.  You may have lied to us about your intentions for the piece, but you're an artist and we respect your artistic expression and integrity."

[Bawseee]

Lol @ this guy.

[Spectre_Shepard]

the ending was a steaming pile of horse manure.

horse manure is not art.

[neenee77]

jaysabz wrote...

translationninja wrote...

With the art BS again.

Arthur Conan Doyle has been mentioned a lot, fewer people know that J.R.R Tolkien retcon'ed The Hobbit to make it play into LOTR better, cheez lawees why are some people so afraid of customers of a big corporation being able to tell them what they want?

I'm sorry if I'm being misunderstood here.  I DO believe that customers of a big corporation should be able to tell them what they want.

What I'm afraid of is this:   if this "change ME3's ending" campaign succeeds, who knows where it will end.

What if we don't like Halo 4's ending?  GTA5?  BioShock:  Infinite?

I understand that consumers at times have legit complaints.  But if these companies allow the vocal internet crowd to alter their completed games (books, movies, etc.) then what is real when it comes to that game, book or movie?

I understand that video games, in the DLC area, are the mediums most susceptible to this.  But with many of the other mediums changing (e.g., books through Kindle, movies through the 'net) are these pieces going to be ever-changing? 

Can I complete a video game and know it's complete?  Can I finish a book and know I've read it, without having to check every few months if a "new ending" or "additional content" is available for it??

That is my fear.  I'd hope that at least some of you share that fear with me.

There is no need to fear. If there is not a problem then the two sides will argue each other ad nauseum. are there two sides in this case, kinda. I liked my ending choice (unfortunnately i can't say in here). I defended bioware against what i thought were trolls, then when my thread was buried to page four in under three minutes I started reading what they were saying. I also went to youtube where i subscribe to several mass effect addicts ( i am one myself) and watched live reactions to the ending. I felt so bad for them, not because I watched utter bliss and awe turn into horror and shock, but because they were right. they are right in this case. As bad and scary as that may seem to you know that they looove bioware peeps and they know that we were lied to, and somehow, somewhere along the way the art that they are so well known for was stifled.
Have you finshed your game yet? what are your thoughts? all are welcome.

[IronsteffL]

Oh man, and they are calling people who want an alternate ending whiny... I lost count, how much posts are there just repeating the stuff IGN and friends blurt out?

[FrozenDreamfall]

*epic face palm* I am sick and tired of seeing threads and posts from people who have no idea what REAL art is and aren't artists themselves and make such assumptions.I have spent over 10 years doing professional art and studying it and these comments are by far some of the most retarded I have ever seen...I posted why too many times and I'm not gonna bother again,all I should say is some people should learn the difference between Art and Artistic! And video games are Artistic,not a pure form of art,it's a completely different story.This post is retarded and the OP has no idea what they're talking about and probably never studied art history or picked up a damn paint brush or hammer and chisel in their life...
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Modifié par FrozenDreamfall, 27 mars 2012 - 11:53 .

[daecath]

Oh PLEASE stop with this "art is sacred" garbage. It's getting tiring. Art isn't this sacred unchangeable divine gift handed down by God himself, and altering it will not cause the universe to suddenly implode on itself because someone had dared violate the sanctity of "the Art".

Most of history's greatest masterpieces were created at the request and to the specifications of someone paying the artist for it. Pope Julius II forced, FORCED Michelangelo to paint the Sistine Chapel. The guy wasn't even a painter, he was a sculptor. Should we tear it down, white wash it because the Pope violated his "artistic integrity"? Should we destroy every work of art that has ever been "tainted" by some outside influence? Recall every movie that ever changed due to the feedback of test audiences? You'll lose half your video collection.

Art isn't about the artist's creative vision, it's about the artist using that vision to establish a relationship with their audience. If there's a problem with that relationship, then the artist should look at what they need to do to repair it. This is even more true in a media like video games, and especially one like Mass Effect, where we are no longer a passive audience. We are an active participant in crafting the narrative. In essence, we are co-artists with the developers. As such, we should have a say in the direction of the story, not just as we play it, but also in determining what options are presented to us while we play.

Plus, like it or not, video games are a product. EA/Bioware is a business, we are their customers, and certain things were promised which were not delivered. If you went to a photographer and had him take a portrait of you, and then they delivered a picture of a cow, would you be ok with that, because that's his "artistic vision"? Or would you be upset and demand that he deliver on what he promised?

[Cancer Puppet]

Bioware already changed the ending after the leak came out because fans hated it. You, OP, lack perspective. Bioware set the precedent for acquiescing to popular demand, and this is precisely the same situation.

Modifié par Cancer Puppet, 28 mars 2012 - 12:40 .

[neilthecellist]

The OP sounds like a Luddite.

[UnfavoredStore]

The only "art" about the game is the green/blue/red pulse that ruins the universe and kills us all, as far as we know.

[UnfavoredStore]

Ending, the game is pure epic, the end is pure bullpucky.

[bluewolv1970]

if changing the ending means art has lost then art lost when fallout 3 changed the ending...SO art has already been defeated...Besides anyone who has played DA2 in the state it was released knows Bioware should NEVER play the artistic integrity card at all...

[KingG528]

I didn't pay for art. I paid for a commodity meant for consumption by a consumer that did not satisfy. If I wanted art I would go to a museum.

[Heather Cline]

I didn't pay for 'Art' and I didn't pay for an exact rip off of Deus Ex Machina either. I paid for a game that was supposed to give us multiple different endings depending on choices made throughout 3 games. I paid for a product not art. Video games are first and foremost a video game, a product. Art comes in dead last when buying video games. So no I did not pay for art. I paid for a video game.

Furthermore DA2 in the state it was released pretty much says that Bioware has no artistic integrity at all. DA2 was unfinished, unpolished and full of horrible bugs and other problems. The whole Artistic Integrity defense is a load of crap and further more the endings to the game Fallout 3 were changed. There were many changes to other games out there due to fan feedback and fan rages. So no the whole 'It's art' or 'Artistic Integrity' is no defense at all.

Modifié par Heather Cline, 28 mars 2012 - 05:08 .

[Relshar]

To the OP finish the damn game then comment on the endings. How can you make a intelligent post if you have not even seen them yourself ?

[SinnSly]

I didn't pay for art, I paid for an amazing game which was supposed to be the end of an amazing trilogy, instead I got a bunch of crap full of plotholes and didn't even get closure one bit!