492 réponses à ce sujet

[Relshar]

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

the ending was a steaming pile of horse manure.

horse manure is not art.

Depends on how you arrange it. Go to Tate Modern lol.

[ZackG312]

jaysabz wrote...

Well I'm obviously outnumbered here. I didn't like the Soprano's ending, let's re-do that. And Lost... I was confused, all the loose ends weren't tied up. Let's re-do that as well.

I didn't know this was an option!!

The Sopranos ending was great, Tony lost most of his top guys in the war, and when he gets shot in the head it cuts to black. No need for a series without Tony Soprano who left himself weak.

[xlI ReFLeX lIx]

Your 1st sentence said it all.

[Erszebeth]

I didn't pay for "art", I bought a game. And even if ME3 endings *are* art which as been said but never proven, nobody said it was *good* art.

Taken as a piece of storytelling, the endings are sorely lacking. Plotholes galore, important character introduced at the last minute, three very static choices that all leads to the sames consequences... Even worse, why reinvest one minute of your time in the trilogy when your choices don't impact the endings at all ? It may have been an acceptable ending for a movie, but this is a very different media. Playing a game is not a passive form of entertainement, yet we have to suffer through this ending without being able to change a single thing about it.

All this after being said that our choices matter, that the game would have 16 different endings and that we would not have the ending that everybody gets.

Modifié par Erszebeth, 28 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[Iconoclaste]

I remember playing on the good old "arcade" machines in bars, long time ago. Some games used to cost 1$ for a play, and you had to be good to last just a few minutes. I never, never heard someone say "Hey, look at this Art!" back then, and no one seemed to assimilate video games to paintings. I do paintings : they don't move, you can't mod them, they don't glitch or need patches.

I also read books, but I can read the back cover, and usually peek thru some chapters to get a taste. If the author played me with bad storytelling, last book I buy from him. No one would think of asking for a few pages to be re-written and sent by mail to be "glued" in the book, but at least, I can sell it to someone else for a fraction of the price, I can light my woodstove with it, use the paper to stuff puppets, whatever. The videogame I bought, I'm stuck with it, and can't do anything but play. Replay? I don't read bad books twice.

Why comparing oranges with apples all the time here, just for the sake of an argument about "art integrity"?

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 28 mars 2012 - 05:31 .

[Quotheraving]

The Op's logic is not only wrongheaded, it's corrosive.

Imagine I'm an artist and I've been commissioned to paint a portrait.
When I finally deliver it, a touch late, 90% of it is of the kind of quality that has led to my getting this commission in the first place, unfortunately the nose of the model, the very center of the portrait is not only not finished, it's a crudely drawn caricature of someone elses nose, a really really ugly one at that.

My customer (who paid for this piece sight unseen based on my prior form) is very upset, he thinks that this portrait is an insult.

On the other hand there are a few arty types who claim that if I change it in any way I'm losing my integrity as an artist and that 'Art' as a whole will suffer as a result.

I would argue that the Artist should be expected to complete the piece to a reasonably consistent standard! They should do this both to prevent future loss of revenue from (rightly) giving ones future customers the impression that you are unreliable and unprofessional and maybe more importantly because your integrity as an artist should demand that you make something you can be proud of.

Modifié par Quotheraving, 28 mars 2012 - 06:50 .

[Psythorn]

I'm really getting tired of reading this ART argument on and on I feel the need to respond again and again... But I will keep it short:
All this art agrument is just not true - it's a cheap excuse ! Not because computer games are not to be considered art (I even think that they are one of the most complex forms of art) but because:
- artistic integrity is not about displeasing your audience and then withdrawing on artitstic integrity
- it is not a precedence - it has been done many times by many artists (authors, directors, musicians) so there is no need form them to hold this line...

So this settles it for me... And I will hold "our" line

Modifié par Psythorn, 29 mars 2012 - 04:17 .

[RACDB]

Perhaps the issue is not so much the ending but more that the game ended?

[Buffy-Summers]

If they told me to "Deal with it"

I would

1. never buy a ea/bioware game
2. I would find ways to make sure that my friends hate bioware/EA as much as I did
3. I would join every anti bioware/ea site, feed, or petion list
4. I would troll every single board for every single game for all eternity

You dont tell your customers to deal with it.

The customers are always right.

You spit in their face like you suggest and you best be ready for the feedback storm of the century

[JeffFah3y]

I think it is art, but of a very new and different kind. If you think about it, video games are still in it's younger years as compared to the standard definition of art like movies and books. That said, I think it's not fair to use the "it's Art!" argument for an entertainment medium that is clearly different from the models of the argument: books and film.

[Zalbik]

This has nothing to do with art. It has everything to do with many consumers taking a stand against a product they have purchased, are unhappy with a part of it and are unable to even get a refund.

[Kajan451]

RACDB wrote...

Perhaps the issue is not so much the ending but more that the game ended?

No. I want my game ended and i want this to be the last of Shepards adventures. I want an end that provides closure and doesn't give me the middle finger and basically makes it quite apperant i might as well haven't bothered playing in the first place.

Once you played multiple chars through all the other games, just to see how it would play out and then you stand there and find out that nothing you did mattered or had any purpose... even if Shepard had curled up at the beginning of ME1 into a ball and put his thumb into his 4 Letters smiling retarded at the experiance and waiting till the reapers roll over his little happy place... even if he did that.. it wouldn't have changed a thing.

Reaching an end that gives you a middle finger rendering everything you did meaning and pointless... that will make you understand what the issue is about.

[valex-jedi]

another ****ing troll

[valex-jedi]

hopes to get his thread attention (which he does)

Modifié par valex-jedi, 30 mars 2012 - 07:06 .

[CARL_DF90]

The ending still needs something. The art will not be lost, it will be improved.

[Holger1405]

Erszebeth wrote...

three very static choices that all leads to the sames consequences...

They didn't lead to the same consequences, the outcome of your choices is vastly different, the Problem is that Bioware didn't make the difference clear enough so that a lot of People obviously didn't understand the difference.

Erszebeth wrote...

Even worse, why reinvest one minute of your time in the trilogy when your choices don't impact the endings at all ?

Your choices in the previous Games, and in ME3, also make a big difference towards the ending. You can get the Best Ending only when your choices are "right". (Or when you play MP, and that is for me, the real mistake Bioware made.)

However, I honestly wonder how many People make the wrong choices, didn't get the best ending, and blame it now on Bioware.

[SuperEngineer]

don-mika wrote...

ART is when author doing something with his vision, something that his like

When something made because people ask for it, this is called- product

Mass Effect- always was a Vision of the author. All three games made by Casey Hudson Vision of the Game. Theres never never been a plan, only feelings

Art or product whatever you want to call it.  

They're not just your games. They're ours. All of ours. We paid to play them, and they're just as much a part of our lives as they are of yours.

When an artist creates, whatever they create belongs to society.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.   
The op should stop reading and start finishing mass effect 3 because there are alot of plotholes at the end of ME3 that just dont make sense with the facts and theories throughout the game

“If the facts don’t fit the theory, change the facts.”
- Albert Einstein 

Modifié par SuperEngineer, 30 mars 2012 - 08:58 .

[DJBare]

RACDB wrote...

Perhaps the issue is not so much the ending but more that the game ended?

Accept that it did not end, at least not in my game.

[AshenSugar]

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet

That was all I needed to know, as it completely invalidates any argument you make afterward.

Modifié par AshenSugar, 30 mars 2012 - 08:37 .

[Holger1405]

valex-jedi wrote...

another ****ing troll

So everyone who didn't agree with your opinion is a troll? Well, that makes you a troll. 

[whiteraider]

Art lost when it was decided that there was a completion date that couldnt be met!

[AlexMBrennan]

the Problem is that Bioware didn't make the difference clear enough so that a lot of People obviously didn't understand the difference.

Let me just counter that entirely valid ad-hominem with an equally valid "yo mama". Try making a logical argument rather than just stating your conclusion as fact

[tango jack]

Renegade interupt - shoots art in the head

Give us the endings we have earned and ones that make sense like the other 2 games is that so hard!

Modifié par tango jack, 30 mars 2012 - 09:00 .

[Calbeb]

There are ways to change the ending so that they are more coherent without ditching the artistic intent. In fact, Bioware has commented saying that is what they plan to attempt. That works for me.

[ile_1979]

Art eh? Woe the day when your visit to the museum results in them showing you only Mona Lisa's smile, and optionally charge you 10 bucks for the eyes. The nose will be on exhibit the next month...

Modifié par ile_1979, 30 mars 2012 - 09:11 .