492 réponses à ce sujet

[kidbd15]

OP, why are you afraid of change? Why must we hold on to the notion that endings shouldn't be changed. We live in a dynamic world. The dynamics of today see the internet in full force, where customer feedback can be given within seconds of experiencing a product.  In the case of ME3, we experienced a poor product in the ending, and with DLC today, we can give them feedback to change the ending.

Mass Effect IS art, but it IS also a product that has always welcomed fan feedback.  And isn't the fact DLC exists in gaming today an example of changing the initial product you receive, and thus the "art" of the game itself is changed? Sure, most of the time DLC are additions to the game, additions to the "art", but even additions change the art.  And sure, you can choose not to purchase DLC to keep the initial "art" intact, and the same can be said for people who do not want the ending to ME3 changed... just don't buy the changed ending DLC (if there is even one), and your art will be maintained.

I don't understand this double standard people have about this "dangerous precedent."  Why is it okay for developers to change their art by adding DLC content, but not okay for fans (who have been a part of making ME) to ask for a different ending and change the art, one that actually complies with everything Mass Effect has been prior to the horrendous ending, where our choices actually matter?

A better ending will definitely change the art that is ME3, but for the better.

Edit:  Oh, and there is much evidence that supports the notion that BioWare rushed the ending.  My analogy:
http://kid1515.devia...alogy-292288783

Modifié par kidbd15, 30 mars 2012 - 09:17 .

[Sir_Cabbage]

Im amazed of two things, firstly that OP is using SO much formatting in his messages that im surprised no one has commented.

Secondly, im wondering why no one has mentioned the fact that they already CHANGED ME3's ending after it was leaked over xbox live. I was going to be something about dark energy with the final choice being to either kill the reapers or sacrifice humanity to save the universe.... Which not only would have allowed for a proper epilogue but wouldnt have basically meant the universe was destroyed.

If this was their original ending I could almost understand the "art" arguement, however where is the art when they were basically forced to scrap their original ending and cobble one together at the last moment? Even the "final hours" thing says that until the last min this ending wasnt decided on.

Modifié par Sir_Cabbage, 30 mars 2012 - 09:46 .

[rastakore]

Come back later when you finished and see the nonsense and the plotholes for yourself.
In my opinion, Mass Effect 3 stopped being "art" at the ending. If BioWare has "artistic integrity" as they say, they would come up with something original for the ending, not copy it from "Deus Ex" or "Matrix Revolutions". I don't think that plagiarism is art.

Modifié par rastakore, 30 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[Shepard921]

There is no art in the ME3 ending, but only a bunch of hasty ideas. If Bioware wants save this great masterpiece, they have to change the ending. Because Mass Effect deserves more. And we deserve more.

[TheNevincer]

One thing I don't understand is how a game about "choice" and dynamic storytelling loses it's artistic integrity by adding more options. If adding additional content saturates it as non-art then Bioware have already done that with their plans to add DLC in the beginning. Nuff said.

[milena87]

I was going to write something about how even the greatest painters would change their art while working on it (pentimento) and then I looked again and saw that the OP didn't finish the game yet.

I envy that innocence.

[WardyLion]

 Someone on the Escapist had this to say:  
"Because if game companies are going to just treat us like walking wallets, then why should we treat them as artists?"

I find it incredibly hard to argue with that logic.

[TekFanX]

I don't think, that this is a big thing that has such an impact on art.
If it would be, there would be no other case that this could be related to.
The Broken Steel DLC for Fallout 3 was a way bigger deal, which not only changed the ending, but also added new content to be played after the ending. And in the End, everyone was happy.

I don't recall a flood of requests to change everything in other media since then.

So if Bethesda didn't kick it loose, why would BioWare?

Not to mention the big words from high ranking BioWare-employees about vastly different endings. If you associate your product with such things to sell it, and then don't deliver them, of course it will backfire.

[stormloader]

to you so called fans
you know nothing of what art is. you use this word art as a weapon
its evident that people are from small towns and/or live with your parents
there truely are no other options
anyways
an artist with integrity makes the art that they want to, which pleases them
you sad excuse for people are really warped to think anything different
so, an artist's fans, true fans, follow that artist for their work, not b/c said artist bends over for you
get a frickin life you people, and stop being the embarrassment of the cities you represent here

[slimgrin]

Modifié par slimgrin, 30 mars 2012 - 10:43 .

[Holger1405]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

the Problem is that Bioware didn't make the difference clear enough so that a lot of People obviously didn't understand the difference.

Let me just counter that entirely valid ad-hominem with an equally valid "yo mama". Try making a logical argument rather than just stating your conclusion as fact

Go to this page: (HUGE SPOILER) http://www.ign.com/w...fect-3/Endings 
There you can see how many different outcomes are possible. My conclusion is, Imho, sound.

[Embrosil]

OP seems as a simple troll to me. If there is going to be a different ending, it will be OPTIONAL. No one is FORCING you to download it. So if you love this crappy ending, do not download the DLC and be happy. But I do not understand why are you forcing others to stick with this crap we have.

[Holger1405]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Let me just counter that entirely valid ad-hominem with an equally valid "yo mama". Try making a logical argument rather than just stating your conclusion as fact

Btw, did you ask People, who didn't like the endings, to do the same thing? I don't think so...

Modifié par Holger1405, 30 mars 2012 - 11:07 .

[chevyguy87]

this whole artistic integrity argument is such a fallacy i refer to video games as interactive entertainment experiences at the end of the day its still a video game no matter if bioware slaps the word "art" on it or not Bioware has a once in a lifetime chance here to redeem themselves and win back a portion of its fan base it would be foolish of them to squander such an opportunity regardless if people scream its not art anymore

[TheNevincer]

stormloader wrote...

to you so called fans
you know nothing of what art is. you use this word art as a weapon
its evident that people are from small towns and/or live with your parents
there truely are no other options
anyways
an artist with integrity makes the art that they want to, which pleases them
you sad excuse for people are really warped to think anything different
so, an artist's fans, true fans, follow that artist for their work, not b/c said artist bends over for you
get a frickin life you people, and stop being the embarrassment of the cities you represent here

Ironic you tell others to get a life when you're the one droning here.

[Petrikles]

Obsidian, if you change the KotOR2 ending, "art" has lost!

[jonal11]

jaysabz wrote...

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet,

I stopped right there. I am sick of listening to people to haven't finished the game blah blah blah about blah blah blah the endings. Finish the game, then you will understand.

[katerinafm]

jonal11 wrote...

jaysabz wrote...

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet,

I stopped right there. I am sick of listening to people to haven't finished the game blah blah blah about blah blah blah the endings. Finish the game, then you will understand.

Agreed. Why make a post about the endings when you haven't even seen them? If you like the endings and have the same opinion after you see them for yourself then feel free to make such a thread and have that opinion, but right now, your opinion and plead to Bioware is invalid.

And like many others have pointed out, lots of artists have changed their work based on fan feedback or for whatever reason, it didn't make their work any less of an art form. Evidence to the contrary makes the 'art will lose' opinion that some have about the game false and unsupported by facts.

And while the game/story of Mass effect is considered an art form, Bioware IS a business whose success depends on how pleased fans are with the product. Would Bioware continue making games if it goes bankrupt and it stops being supported by fans for art? No.

Also, if there was only a small minority that was raging about the endings while the majority loved it and couldn't find a reason why it wouldn't be liked, fine. But when such a huge percentage of the fan base is disappointed and is calling out on the ending, don't you think that perhaps a few members of the fanbase are not just kids raging and are actually intelligent individuals that are protesting for a good reason? Food for thought XD.

Edit: And yeah, OP could very much be a troll, but I've been feeling like voicing my opinion to any others that have the OPs opinion.

Modifié par katerinafm, 30 mars 2012 - 12:50 .

[Arcataye]

Mass Effect 3 Ending: Tasteful, Understated Nerdrage (SPOILERS)

If you have the time, everyone should listen to this.

[CELL55]

 If they keep the ending, then instead of betraying the 'art', we get:

 

[FAButzke]

This is quite simple:
When you read a book, you're reading the story created by the author. You, as a reader, cannot change it. So, it's quite stupid to complain about why you didn't get the ending you would've liked.
BUT
We are talking about games. We are talking about Mass Effect. A series known for: "your decisions matter".
When you create something like that, there's NOTHING wrong in changing something most people didn't like about it. Changing something that most people felt they've wasted their time playing, writing, experiencing THEIR story, THEIR saga, THEIR Shepard, should be mandatory not subjective.

Mass Effect IS art but IS also a product. And a product SHOULD be changed to meet the customers expectations. This is a fact.

Now... The endings are not fine. They could've been much better.I, for one, was not pissed about them either. But, I understand why most people are and I also understand why it could/should be changed. Again, there's no problem with that.

Modifié par FAButzke, 30 mars 2012 - 02:07 .

[Ibn_Shisha]

I think "art" already lost when they decided to cut corners and recycle the art of others. Won't post the specifics here as there are spoilers, but the threads exist.

[InvincibleHero]

FAButzke wrote...

This is quite simple:
When you read a book, you're reading the story created by the author. You, as a reader, cannot change it. So, it's quite stupid to complain about why you didn't get the ending you would've liked.
BUT
We are talking about games. We are talking about Mass Effect. A series known for: "your decisions matter".
When you create something like that, there's NOTHING wrong in changing something most people didn't like about it. Changing something that most people felt they've wasted their time playing, writing, experiencing THEIR story, THEIR saga, THEIR Shepard, should be mandatory not subjective.

Mass Effect IS art but IS also a product. And a product SHOULD be changed to meet the customers expectations. This is a fact.

Now... The endings are not fine. They could've been much better.I, for one, was not pissed about them either. But, I understand why most people are and I also understand why it could/should be changed. Again, there's no problem with that.

Two questions if I may.  1. Is the ending BW wrote not written like a novel would be? 2. Which customer view should they listen to?

[KingJason13]

I'd argue Art lost when the ending was rushed out the door incomplete...