Well let's say you didn't like the way Hemmingway's novel ended. If he was alive today, you'd petition him to re-write it?
I'm not a gaming journalist, I have a real job.
"Art" to me is anything you can see or experience. Paintings. Movies. Video Games.
*SPOILER ALERT*
In the movie "Se7en" his wife's head is in the box.
*END SPOILERS*
So if you think she should've been saved, you want the actors to go re-do the ending?
You're all nuts.
BioWare, if you change the ME3 ending "art" has lost
Débuté par
jaysabz
, mars 24 2012 01:42
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:09
wrc78
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This.BanksHector wrote...
Before I finished the game, I had a opinion like yours. After I beat the game, I understood where all the other people was coming from. I still enjoy playing the game, but I do hope "art" loses and they change/add to the ending to make it better.
I also had the same thinking before beating the game...
So, please play this great game, finish it, and then, express your opinion about its end.
Modifié par wrc78, 24 mars 2012 - 02:09 .
#28
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:09
Darth Malice113
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Mr.House wrote...
The true question is if they are happy with their artistic version, why make dlc for it?Darth Malice113 wrote...
If BW thinks so highly of their artistic vision, why are they so concerned about the bottom line?
Also, is the whole mandatory Origin client for PC art too?
FOR ART!!!!!!!
^^ Indeed.
Funny how that is overlooked in these ART declarations.
#29
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:11
Relix28
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Funny that you put "art" in quotations.
#30
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:11
jaysabz
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Well let me tell you, I thought the ending to Gears of War 3 was weak, but that was the ending....
Who the hell am I, or us, to demand that the ending is satisfactory?!
Who the hell am I, or us, to demand that the ending is satisfactory?!
#31
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:11
Lili Dragunova
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According to you. "Games are not art" is an opinion, not fact.101ezylonhxeT wrote...
ME and games in general are not art so your OP is pointless.
Moving on to the topic... I disliked the endings. Really, I did, and I have no problem saying so. But I don't understand this mentality that the OP is talking about either. I've read bad books, and seen bad movies, but I don't see a large number of people demanding that those be changed. Forgive me if I fail to see the difference between these three mediums.
#33
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:12
Mr.House
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The ending of Gears 3 is fantastic compared to ME3... At least Gears 3 had closure.
#34
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:13
kbct
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Surprise Guest wrote...
Firstly you shouldn't be posting with no knowledge on what the endings are. What are you? A Gaming "journalist"?
Good stuff.
#35
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:13
deaditegonzo102
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jaysabz wrote...
Well let's say you didn't like the way Hemmingway's novel ended. If he was alive today, you'd petition him to re-write it?
I'm not a gaming journalist, I have a real job.
"Art" to me is anything you can see or experience. Paintings. Movies. Video Games.
*SPOILER ALERT*
In the movie "Se7en" his wife's head is in the box.
*END SPOILERS*
So if you think she should've been saved, you want the actors to go re-do the ending?
You're all nuts.
Thats just it, have you seen a petition to change Se7en's ending? No, because even though it was depressing, IT WAS WELL EXECUTED! The director didnt leave enormous plotholes. Imagine if, instead of being delivered, her head somehow just teleported into the car with them, and Kevin Spacey wasnt the killer at all, but rather Sauron, then you have an idea why fans are ticked.
Sure, the ending was a downer and some people just wanted a happy ending, because they felt they earned it through EMS points
(or whatever) and their choices, but the majority just want an ending that makes sense, that feels finished, that isnt full of holes big enough for Sovereign to fly through.
#36
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:15
Eliavres33
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Op, I want you to read this guys' post and refute what he said.
If you can do that, I'll agree with you.
If you can do that, I'll agree with you.
#37
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:16
LordDeimos4
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"I haven't even finished the game yet" LOL really? Worthless post. Finish the game first.
#38
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:17
jaysabz
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Well we'll never agree. Maybe if we complain enough they'll re-do ME1 because
*SPOILER ALERT FOR ME1**
I like both Kaiden and Ashley, why should I have to choose!!
**END SPOILER**
/:|
*SPOILER ALERT FOR ME1**
I like both Kaiden and Ashley, why should I have to choose!!
**END SPOILER**
/:|
#39
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:17
deaditegonzo102
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Not only that, but Se7en didnt make a bunch of promises to sell tickets, all of which turned out false. And remember, Video Games are basically unreturnable.
Its like buying a REALLY NICE chair, site unseen, on a bunch of promises, and then finding out it is missing a leg, AND YOU CANT EVEN GET YOUR MONEY BACK. If Bioware said, "We dont want to change the Ending, Artistic Integrity and what not, but we will give everyone who wants a full refund," I dont think anyone would have the right to complain. Of course Bioware would go broke if everyone who was unhappy returned their copy(s).
Its like buying a REALLY NICE chair, site unseen, on a bunch of promises, and then finding out it is missing a leg, AND YOU CANT EVEN GET YOUR MONEY BACK. If Bioware said, "We dont want to change the Ending, Artistic Integrity and what not, but we will give everyone who wants a full refund," I dont think anyone would have the right to complain. Of course Bioware would go broke if everyone who was unhappy returned their copy(s).
#40
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:20
I RJay I
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You get your information from IGNorant... I don't think there needs to be any more discussion.
But even if there should be, plenty of people here have given brilliant examples including Charles Dickens, JK Rowling, and Arthur Conan Doyle. Their art has stood the test of time (with the exception of JK Rowling of course). Nobody said their 'art' was ruined.
Don't be such a cry baby, you don't even have any ME game registered, so you clearly know nothing about this.
But even if there should be, plenty of people here have given brilliant examples including Charles Dickens, JK Rowling, and Arthur Conan Doyle. Their art has stood the test of time (with the exception of JK Rowling of course). Nobody said their 'art' was ruined.
Don't be such a cry baby, you don't even have any ME game registered, so you clearly know nothing about this.
#41
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:22
deaditegonzo102
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^ The above aggression was unnecessary.
#42
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:24
InvincibleHero
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You realize he wrote other novels for 8 years and then by choice resurrected Holmes. So see you in 8 years then. He did it mainly for his mother too.LegendaryBlade wrote...
Hey. Sir Author Conan Doyle wants to speak with you about when he retcon'd Sherlock Holmes death for his fans.
He's upset that you think he ruined art. Why would you say that?
Oh and they aren't even the same thing. People wanted more Holmes novels not forcing him to rewrite the ending. If BW stopped making ME games then I would join petitions showing my support as well. No one put words into SIr Arthur Conan Doyle's mouth and told him how to write or that his created stories were invalid. Your use of the situation now that is invalid.
#43
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:31
jaysabz
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Yeah I don't know how to register / haven't registered. My first BW game was NWN back in the day. I have the collectors edition of ME1, ME2 and ME3.
Sorry if I haven't registered up. EA recently made me.
Also, I check IGN, Gamespot, Destructoid, etc.. I actually tend to agree most with Gametrailers....
And maybe I'll be upset about the ME3 ending when I get there.But that'll be that. If I don't like it, I don't need someone to re-do it. It'll just be a crappy ending to a good series.
Sorry if I haven't registered up. EA recently made me.
Also, I check IGN, Gamespot, Destructoid, etc.. I actually tend to agree most with Gametrailers....
And maybe I'll be upset about the ME3 ending when I get there.But that'll be that. If I don't like it, I don't need someone to re-do it. It'll just be a crappy ending to a good series.
#44
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:34
KBomb
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jaysabz wrote...
*snipped for space*
Jason
It is a mass produced product published by a corporate entity. I am not saying that they didn't pour their heart and souls into it and all that jazz. What I am saying is the whole art comparison needs to stop. It has become a ridiculous umbrella excuse to cover mistakes so that they don't have to be answered to.
Stop comparing books to a video game, especially Mass Effect. There is a stark difference between the two. Mass Effect is a series in which Bioware has allowed the player to interact with the universe in such a way that they are part of it. Since day one they have said how important our choices are, how we can shape Shepard and how we are part of the process. Besides, how many books are changed when adapted into movies? You bring up Stephen King. He has an integral part in all the movies based on his novels and how many changes are made for the adaptation? Changes that he authorizes. Misery has quite a few changes. The hobbling scene, missing characters, characters added, the amputation of the protagonist’s finger, etc. The movie didn't suffer for it—Kathy Bates even won an award and it was a well received book and movie.
Mass Effect was not advertised as art. It is a commercial entertainment. One that fans have been shaping along with Bioware. Tali romance, anyone? If something is advertised as a certain product and you purchase that product based on the advertisement and former quality of the products in the same series, and that product is changed to the point that the advertisement is false and the product is unrecognizable, then people have a right to demand better. If the writing is poor, they have a right to demand better.
If Bioware didn't want the fans to shape their “art”, then they shouldn't have advertised it as such. The integrity of it is already lost when you take characters like Jacob and make a complete mockery of his personality. When you completely ignore choices already established, when you “forget” that the character you wrote was in a romance with the protagonist. When you introduce a significant plot and character in the last ten minutes of a trilogy and expect the player to relate and understand, when you promise closure and leave ambiguity. When you leave part of an ending out, not because of a decision you made, but because of MP. Yeah, we didn't ruin anyone's art. That job was done for us.
Modifié par KBomb, 24 mars 2012 - 02:40 .
#45
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:34
OdanUrr
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LegendaryBlade wrote...
Hey. Sir Author Conan Doyle wants to speak with you about when he retcon'd Sherlock Holmes death for his fans.
He's upset that you think he ruined art. Why would you say that?
Arthur Conan Doyle resurrected Holmes because his mother told him so. It had nothing to do with his fans.
#46
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:40
don-mika
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ART is when author doing something with his vision, something that his like
When something made because people ask for it, this is called- product
Mass Effect- always was a Vision of the author. All three games made by Casey Hudson Vision of the Game. Theres never never been a plan, only feelings
When something made because people ask for it, this is called- product
Mass Effect- always was a Vision of the author. All three games made by Casey Hudson Vision of the Game. Theres never never been a plan, only feelings
Modifié par don-mika, 24 mars 2012 - 02:48 .
#47
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:41
jaysabz
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don-mika wrote...
ART is when author doing something with his vision, something that his like
When something made because people ask for it, this is called- product
/agree
#48
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:42
AdmiralJacket
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If ME3 is considered art, then lets compare this to a painting.
Lets say you bought a piece of art advertised as a "magnificent landscape" painting, but the entire thing was covered up in a tarp. Since you don't buy art that often, you want to make sure this is top-quality art. The artist promised that the painting would be incredible, and would include specific details mentioned before the point of purchase (especially details about the Sun). You had every reason to beleive him/her.
You could have pulled back the tarp early to see what the painting was beforehand, but you didn't want to ruin it's beauty.
Every day since you bought it, the tarp has slowly been pulled away and you've enjoyed every astounding detail that has been uncovered. The grass looks amazing, the water looks realistic and the reflection is wonderful. Then the tarp is almost pulled back completely. You can see the tops of mountains, the sky, and you've really enjoyed your time admiring every last brush stroke and detail.
Then, here it comes. The moment you've been waiting for. This is the moment the Sun will be revealed in the painting. The tarp is pulled back, and nothing could have prepaired you for what you're now looking at. The Sun, which had been so hyped up and so many details about it promised, is simply a smearing of feces. A particularly rancid bit of feces that is now stinking up the house.
You feel betrayed by the artist of the painting. He promised the Sun would be the spectical of the painting. In fact, he promised the Sun wouldn't be anything LIKE a smearing of feces. The scent lingers for a few days and you aren't even able to look at the painting anymore. It's ruined the beauty of the rest of the canvase. You're so taken aback by this, since the artist has been known to make some masterpieces in his time and you've really enjoyed admiring them.
As a suggestion, you feel that cleaning up that little smearing of feces where the Sun should be would make looking at the painting more enjoyable again. You want to look at it more. You want to look at the details and the brushstrokes and enjoy them once again, but the lingering smell of the feces ruins it. You know it's there, even when you are not looking at it.
You go to the artist and express your dislike for the smearing of feces. You give him/her the suggestion of cleaning the feces and replacing it with an enjoyable Sun. Hell, you'd take a planet or an astroid being there, as long as it makes sense.
"No," the artist says "I must keep my artistic integrity, and that smearing of feces was my artistic choice."
So now, you're stuck with a magnificent painting that is absolutely ruined by a small, but putrid and very noticable smaering of feces.
-----------------------
That's exactly how I feel. I was promised certain things about my "art" that BioWare did not deliver on. That would be ok, but the "smearing of feces" is so ridiculously out of place and bizarre that it's almost unacceptable. If that was the artists intention, so be it. But they certinly won't be getting any more of my money for their "art".
I also cannot buy "art" as often as I'd like, so I'd like my "art" to have some replayablility. I can't replay my "art" as often as I like because of that "smearing of feces" constantly intruding on my senses.
I also cannot trust this "artist" anymore. Since I previously enjoyed the other pieces of art from them, and I was promised that all my choices in the last "piece of art" would truely matter and there absolutely would not be a "smearing of feces (A, B, or C ending)". I could have spoiled it for myself with the leak, but I didn't. I trusted the artist enough for them to make a great "piece of art" with all their promises intact.
TL;DR
If Mass Effect 3 is art and cannot be changed, then I just bought an incredibly lousy piece of art from a formerly trustable artist.
Lets say you bought a piece of art advertised as a "magnificent landscape" painting, but the entire thing was covered up in a tarp. Since you don't buy art that often, you want to make sure this is top-quality art. The artist promised that the painting would be incredible, and would include specific details mentioned before the point of purchase (especially details about the Sun). You had every reason to beleive him/her.
You could have pulled back the tarp early to see what the painting was beforehand, but you didn't want to ruin it's beauty.
Every day since you bought it, the tarp has slowly been pulled away and you've enjoyed every astounding detail that has been uncovered. The grass looks amazing, the water looks realistic and the reflection is wonderful. Then the tarp is almost pulled back completely. You can see the tops of mountains, the sky, and you've really enjoyed your time admiring every last brush stroke and detail.
Then, here it comes. The moment you've been waiting for. This is the moment the Sun will be revealed in the painting. The tarp is pulled back, and nothing could have prepaired you for what you're now looking at. The Sun, which had been so hyped up and so many details about it promised, is simply a smearing of feces. A particularly rancid bit of feces that is now stinking up the house.
You feel betrayed by the artist of the painting. He promised the Sun would be the spectical of the painting. In fact, he promised the Sun wouldn't be anything LIKE a smearing of feces. The scent lingers for a few days and you aren't even able to look at the painting anymore. It's ruined the beauty of the rest of the canvase. You're so taken aback by this, since the artist has been known to make some masterpieces in his time and you've really enjoyed admiring them.
As a suggestion, you feel that cleaning up that little smearing of feces where the Sun should be would make looking at the painting more enjoyable again. You want to look at it more. You want to look at the details and the brushstrokes and enjoy them once again, but the lingering smell of the feces ruins it. You know it's there, even when you are not looking at it.
You go to the artist and express your dislike for the smearing of feces. You give him/her the suggestion of cleaning the feces and replacing it with an enjoyable Sun. Hell, you'd take a planet or an astroid being there, as long as it makes sense.
"No," the artist says "I must keep my artistic integrity, and that smearing of feces was my artistic choice."
So now, you're stuck with a magnificent painting that is absolutely ruined by a small, but putrid and very noticable smaering of feces.
-----------------------
That's exactly how I feel. I was promised certain things about my "art" that BioWare did not deliver on. That would be ok, but the "smearing of feces" is so ridiculously out of place and bizarre that it's almost unacceptable. If that was the artists intention, so be it. But they certinly won't be getting any more of my money for their "art".
I also cannot buy "art" as often as I'd like, so I'd like my "art" to have some replayablility. I can't replay my "art" as often as I like because of that "smearing of feces" constantly intruding on my senses.
I also cannot trust this "artist" anymore. Since I previously enjoyed the other pieces of art from them, and I was promised that all my choices in the last "piece of art" would truely matter and there absolutely would not be a "smearing of feces (A, B, or C ending)". I could have spoiled it for myself with the leak, but I didn't. I trusted the artist enough for them to make a great "piece of art" with all their promises intact.
TL;DR
If Mass Effect 3 is art and cannot be changed, then I just bought an incredibly lousy piece of art from a formerly trustable artist.
#49
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:44
Supersingha
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The game was never art to begin with...
#50
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 02:44
KBomb
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don-mika wrote...
ART is when author doing something with his vision, something that his like
When something made because people ask for it, this is called- product
Well, then it's a good thing Mass Effect is a product then. Look at all the changes they made through out the series because it was fan popular. Guess that settles that argument, amirite?
