492 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahglock]

Il Divo wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

ME and games in general are not art so your OP is pointless.

No, they are art and YOUR oppinion is pointless. A bunch of artists working together creatingart. How can the final product NOT be art? Way to go backstab the entire gaming industry like that.

It doesn't matter AT ALL how dissatistifed some poeple are with the end. It doesnt even matter how many people are dissatisfied.
As long as the developer/artist is satisfied.

If I were to write a story and love it as it is, It would matter if the entire friggin world tought I should change it. The entire friggin world can go suck ** *******.

 The mentality of "it's all about what I want" is exactly what will prevent you from ever releasing a product. The market doesn't care what the artist wants; the market only cares what the consumer wants. If EA did not think ME3 would generate a profit, ME3 would not have been made. In other words: your art depends upon my money.

I
am going to go with it not being art and the people at bioware not
being artists in the first place.  Any time you make something
in a giant corporate committee it is not art, it is just a product.
 When you are balancing the game, modifying the story due to
internal feedback why is it art, but when you modify it afterwards
why is it a violation of art?  Overly loose definitions of art don't
help anyone.  ME is just a commercial product.  People like to think of themselves as artists and like to apreciate things as if they are art for that nice sense of smug superiority. but calling this art is about the same as calling a bowl of cherios art.  They are both products made, changed, and messed around with for the primary intent of getting people to buy them.  The primary goal of making ME was not to tell a story, or indulge in a artisitc vision it was to get paid.  And quite frankly thank god for it.  If games were art we would probably be swamped with a bunch of games with no care for balance or gameplay, but hey they would fit the artists vision kind of llike some modern art abomination where the artist smears crap on a canvas and calls it monkey fiesta.

[AndrewRogue]

Speaking as a writer and an artist...

There are many things defensible as art. There are many ways I could have supported the ending as being bad and being defensible by the choice of the writers.

Mass Effect 3's ending is not such a circumstance.

Mass Effect 3 ended in such a way that I'm sure it was either corporate meddling or time constraints. There is NO way it was an "artistic" choice. If it was... well. Obvious plotholes, mechanical failures, a notable lack of closure and, in fact, being a complete non-ending does not paint much hope for whoever was responsible for it.

So, I suppose what I'm saying is the "art" defense is a legitimate defense in many circumstances. This is not one of them.

Modifié par AndrewRogue, 31 mars 2012 - 06:17 .

[Arik7]

AndrewRogue wrote...

Speaking as a writer and an artist...

There are many things defensible as art. There are many ways I could have supported the ending as being bad and being defensible by the choice of the writers.

Mass Effect 3's ending is not such a circumstance.

Mass Effect 3 ended in such a way that I'm sure it was either corporate meddling or time constraints. There is NO way it was an "artistic" choice. If it was... well. Obvious plotholes, mechanical failures, a notable lack of closure and, in fact, being a complete non-ending does not paint much hope for whoever was responsible for it.

So, I suppose what I'm saying is the "art" defense is a legitimate defense in many circumstances. This is not one of them.

[Xenogias]

jaysabz wrote...

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet, been travelling, but please read on.

I do check IGN's mobile site from my phone here and there and have learned about this "uprising" to change the ME3 ending.

PLEASE, PLEASE, Please do not change the game's ending (sight unseen for me) just because of these protests! 

If you do, where do we go from there??

We live in such a self-entitled "please me" society these days.  BIOWARE, you made these games.  I understand the need to please your customers - I myself am in the service industry.  But PLEASE do not fold to the demands of the loud social networking / internet crowd.  It will set a dangerous precedent.

Even within the realm of video games... NOOO... we want character "X" (FFVII) to live...

...NOOO... we want character "X" to survive in Halo Reach....

Where will it stop? 

DO NOT alter your art.  Look at the state of the Star Wars series with all the crappy revisions over the years.

Tell your player base to "DEAL WITH IT" ... 

I've read TONS of books that I hoped ended differently.  I never wrote to the author of a book and demanded he or she rewrite the ending to meet my demands.

On that topic, one very good author wrote a book about that situation.  It was Stephen King, and the book was "Misery".  The woman found her favorite author crippled and kept the author all locked up and in his bed and would re-break his legs b/c she was never happy with what he was doing with her favorite character.

Dont' fall down this wormhole, BIoWare.   Please don't.  You made the art which is Mass Effect 3.  Don't alter it due to some loudmouth advocates.  Not all video games are "art", but the Mass Effect series certainly is.  To quote a line from my favorite movie, Rushmore... "nihilne sanc­tum est"...  "Is nothing sacred?"

Do the right thing, BioWare.

A big fan of yours for years....

Jason

Here is the problem. The game industry, while an art, is still a buisness. And guess what. ****** off your customers they stop buying your products.

Here is the other problem. Bad art doesnt sell. Lots of people call this bad art. Personally I call it unfinished art but I have been warned not to really go into detail on these forums why I think the game is unfinished. Spoilers and all that.

This whole "art" argument is really a joke. Like I said, bad artists dont sell thier pieces. If your art isnt selling and you want to make a living on said art you need to change your artistic style or live in a cardboard box. Now you are talking about art worth millions. If all of a sudden people stop liking said art you are talking about millions of dollars being lost and hundreds of artists jobs being lost.

One last thing. Adding "A big fan of yours for years" in bold like it means something is laughable. Many of us have been Bioware fans for years. That doesnt mean we have to like everything they do.

[dheer]

I know Art. The guy hasn't won anything in his life so losing something isn't a big deal.

[rmpumper]

One problem: there's nothing artistic about the endings - they just make no sense and do not explain anything.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Lots of speculation for everyone.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Krogangreetings wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Krogangreetings wrote...

I'm curious where does multiplayer fit in this artistic bit

a second rate horde mode clone? not really gallery material

Lots of ppl think it's fun.

Doesn't make it art

I see you speak for us....who are you again, though?

[Krogangreetings]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Krogangreetings wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Krogangreetings wrote...

I'm curious where does multiplayer fit in this artistic bit

a second rate horde mode clone? not really gallery material

Lots of ppl think it's fun.

Doesn't make it art

I see you speak for us....who are you again, though?

I'm no one special but a clone of someone elses mode with afew changes is not art, if it is I 'm gonna go paint Mona Lisa with sun glasses and elvis hair lot of people will think thats fun

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Krogangreetings wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Krogangreetings wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Krogangreetings wrote...

I'm curious where does multiplayer fit in this artistic bit

a second rate horde mode clone? not really gallery material

Lots of ppl think it's fun.

Doesn't make it art

I see you speak for us....who are you again, though?

I'm no one special but a clone of someone elses mode with afew changes is not art, if it is I 'm gonna go paint Mona Lisa with sun glasses and elvis hair lot of people will think thats fun

Guess what....some rebellious 19 year old will buy it for his dorm.  If it's created using imagination then for all intensive puposes it's art.  That doesn't mean all art has to be good.  Jesus, why do you think no one takes art seriously these days.

I know you can poke a hole through that, but you get the idea.

[Turian_punk_75]

Mr.House wrote...

The ending of Gears 3 is fantastic compared to ME3... At least Gears 3 had closure.

This^

Art has no place in video games when it comes to storytelling. You want to be entertained by art, go to a gallery. Video games are there to be played by gamers, not be reviewed by art critics.

I for one hope art is torn a new ****...

[TwistedComplex]

Copy/pasting the ending of Deus Ex hardly qualifies as "art"

[What a Succulent Ass]

Turian_punk_75 wrote...

Art has no place in video games when it comes to storytelling.

Wrong.

That is of itself fallacious. Storytelling IS an art.

[Kanner]

This is just bad art.

Bad art has never WON.

[gammle]

so many ^i havent finnished the game yet^ but dont change the ending...

Ohh FFS finish the game read all the plots do every quest in me1 and 2 and 3 and you will c hope the ending kickes you hard....

[Fhaileas]

"Bioware: We want Call of Duty's audience " = artistic integrity

LOL!

[ciaweth]

Sure, video games can be art. But the notion that art can't ever be changed to fit the desires of its patrons is nonsense. Furthermore, anyone hiding behind the "artistic integrity" excuse needs to explain Diana Allers' presence in the game to me.

[What a Succulent Ass]

ciaweth wrote...

explain Diana Allers' presence in the game to me.

Lots of speculation from everyone.