492 réponses à ce sujet

[Emoclew]

And if Bioware feels that way they need to stop giving the "fans" choices....stop asking our opinions and just make stand alone games that won't sell.

Modifié par Emoclew, 24 mars 2012 - 02:56 .

[HolmesLovesGuinness]

Was it 'artistic integrity' that led them to chop out a major character / backstory from the game and charge extra for it as day one DLC? Whether or not BioEA changes the ending will have very little to do with 'artistic integrity' and everything to do with their bottom line and the perceived long-term health of the franchise.

[Wifflebottom]

jaysabz wrote...

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet,

Stopped reading here, but if you finish the game and can still call it 'art' then you can contribute to the discussion otherwise you won't be taken seriously

[Psychlonus]

George Lucas really missed the boat. At the end of Return of the Jedi, he should've had Luke walk into the throne room with Vader and see the ghosts of Obi Wan and Yoda on either side of the Emperor. The ghosts would then tell Luke "What we told you was true from a certain point of view, but the Empire really is the way to go. Become the Emperor's new apprentice and off the old man. That will save all your friends out there."

That would really be consistent with the theme of Star Wars.

[Randalf84]

addiction21 wrote...

Randalf84 wrote...

OP, when you've finished the game, we'll still be here. We wont say we told you so. All will be forgiven.

I am here. I have seen it. Tell me all you want.  I still disagree.

You are an outlying value. There is, at last count, a 91% chance that upon seeing the ending, the OP will agree with the rest of us. My statement is therefore overwhelmingly likely to be applicable in this case. Excuse me for erring on the side of statistics.

[Chakuura]

Before I finished the game I really thought people were overreacting, then I did reach the ending and...well.

There is nothing artistic about this ending, it's just a mess.

[FosterBr717]

FosterBr717 wrote...

A lot of you seem to have taken what I said, and assumed I meant that once a story is written, you should never change it. This is not true. No, if YOUR dissastified with your story, YOU can change it. If someone gives you a better idea, and you approve of that change, feel free to change it. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't be FORCED to change your ending just because people are dissastified. Obviously Bioware is satsified with the ending, so I don't feel they should be forced to change it based on other people's preceptions. If Bioware isn't satisified with the ending, then I'm all for them changing it.

Personally I'm really looking forward to BioWare's next new IP. I knew this "choice" thing was going to be a gimmick from the 1st game. It's impossible to make a game that is completly different depending on the choices you make. There isn't enough space on discs to be able to create 30 differnet stories depending on the differnet choices. In the end, we all knew that there was going ot be a overall story, and your "chocies" would proabbly just change how you got there, not change the overall story.

[Accism]

FosterBr717 wrote...

A lot of you seem to have taken what I said, and assumed I meant that once a story is written, you should never change it. This is not true. No, if YOUR dissastified with your story, YOU can change it. If someone gives you a better idea, and you approve of that change, feel free to change it. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't be FORCED to change your ending just because people are dissastified. Obviously Bioware is satsified with the ending, so I don't feel they should be forced to change it based on other people's preceptions. If Bioware isn't satisified with the ending, then I'm all for them changing it.

No one is forcing BioWare to do anything (except that one weirdo who reported them to the FTC, but even he admitted it was a publicity stunt that had no hope of succeeding). They're a big company staffed by mature adults who are not beholden to what people on an internet forum are saying about their video game. If/when they change the ending you can guarantee it will be because they choose to. All we can do is keep giving them suggestions and letting them know why we, the audience, don't like what we have now.

[Scam_poo]

Ok. So before I finished the game, I had the same opinion.

...And now that I have beat the game, I still have that opinion. Nice post, wholeheartly agreeing.

[ParagonGreg]

"Hey, we need to get this ending finished. The game goes gold in a few months."

"Well, how much of the ending is done?"

"We just finished the bad ending..."

"Great. Change the colors and print it."

"But... that seems dishonest."

"No, my friend. That's art."

... and scene.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Yes, Bioware must maintain it's artistic integrity.

"Mass Effect fans have been asking for a comment on recent concerns over Mass Effect: Deception. We have been listening and have the below response on the issue.

The teams at Del Rey and BioWare would like to extend our sincerest apologies to the Mass Effect fans for any errors and oversights made in the recent novel Mass Effect: Deception. We are currently working on a number of changes that will appear in future editions of the novel.

We would like to thank all Mass Effect fans for their passion and dedication to this ever-growing world, and assure them that we are listening and taking this matter very seriously."

Bioware Community Manager Chris Priestly

Modifié par MelfinaofOutlawStar, 24 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[Echo_V]

deaditegonzo102 wrote...

This guy will be on our side when he reaches the ending, so this post is irrelevant.

[Psychlonus]

The next time I meet up with a standup comic, I'm going to tell him that if he dies at several venues in a row, he shouldn't change any of his material. Artistic integrity and the show must go on.

[AshenSugar]

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet

I stopped reading at that point, as every single thing you have to say about the ending can only be based upon pure assumption.

[FortitudeSon]

We'll see you in the spoiler free forums a few days from now.

[Kub666]

jaysabz wrote...
Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet, been travelling, but please read on.

Why don't you finish it and then come talk to us. I'm kinda tired of this crap.

Also, there is no such thing as finished art, many artists like to change their stuff. Da Vinci may be one of the worst offenders.

And no, games are not art, at least not blockbusters like ME. Maybe Braid was art, but ME is entertainment product first and foremost. If they think changing the ending will be profitable in the long run, they will change it. If they think this would be bad investment, they won't.

[foo man chew]

jaysabz wrote...

Listen, I haven't even finished the game yet, been travelling, but please read on.

I do check IGN's mobile site from my phone here and there and have learned about this "uprising" to change the ME3 ending.

PLEASE, PLEASE, Please do not change the game's ending (sight unseen for me) just because of these protests! 

If you do, where do we go from there??

We live in such a self-entitled "please me" society these days.  BIOWARE, you made these games.  I understand the need to please your customers - I myself am in the service industry.  But PLEASE do not fold to the demands of the loud social networking / internet crowd.  It will set a dangerous precedent.

Even within the realm of video games... NOOO... we want character "X" (FFVII) to live...

...NOOO... we want character "X" to survive in Halo Reach....

Where will it stop? 

DO NOT alter your art.  Look at the state of the Star Wars series with all the crappy revisions over the years.

Tell your player base to "DEAL WITH IT" ... 

I've read TONS of books that I hoped ended differently.  I never wrote to the author of a book and demanded he or she rewrite the ending to meet my demands.

On that topic, one very good author wrote a book about that situation.  It was Stephen King, and the book was "Misery".  The woman found her favorite author crippled and kept the author all locked up and in his bed and would re-break his legs b/c she was never happy with what he was doing with her favorite character.

Dont' fall down this wormhole, BIoWare.   Please don't.  You made the art which is Mass Effect 3.  Don't alter it due to some loudmouth advocates.  Not all video games are "art", but the Mass Effect series certainly is.  To quote a line from my favorite movie, Rushmore... "nihilne sanc­tum est"...  "Is nothing sacred?"

Do the right thing, BioWare.

A big fan of yours for years....

Jason

You fail nice try.

[Heavenly_King]

jaysabz wrote...

Tell your player base to "DEAL WITH IT" ... 

I've read TONS of books that I hoped ended differently.  I never wrote to the author of a book and demanded he or she rewrite the ending to meet my demands.

On that topic, one very good author wrote a book about that situation.  It was Stephen King, and the book was "Misery".  The woman found her favorite author crippled and kept the author all locked up and in his bed and would re-break his legs b/c she was never happy with what he was doing with her favorite character.

Dont' fall down this wormhole, BIoWare.   Please don't.  You made the art which is Mass Effect 3.  Don't alter it due to some loudmouth advocates.  Not all video games are "art", but the Mass Effect series certainly is.  To quote a line from my favorite movie, Rushmore... "nihilne sanc­tum est"...  "Is nothing sacred?"

Do the right thing, BioWare.

A big fan of yours for years....

Jason

You dont get it dont you?? The outrage is not because something bad happens or because some awesome chracter died...IT IS BECAUSE IT IS HAS NO SENSE!!!!.  If it had the same great narrative as the rest of the game, also all the things you do in the game doesnt matter, the only thing that matters are your EMS point, and that is a really bad thing.

Also even if it is "art" it becomes a PRODUCT when they sell it to you, and you would expect to recieve what it was promised in the promotions of the game.

I will quote some dude from other site:

"This isn’t just an issue of people not liking the ending, and that’s what most journalists saying things like this don’t understand. While the story can be considered their art, the fact that they are selling me the game also makes it a product. The problem isn’t we didn’t get the ending we wanted, it’s that we didn’t get the ending Bioware itself promised it would have pre-release. Bioware can make their stories however they please, but if they make commitments then as a business I expect them to deliver on them in the final product.

Casey Hudson said “It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C…..The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”. Now can anyone really tell me with a straight face how choosing between Destroy(Red), Control(Blue), and Synthesis(Green)for an ending is anything BUT an A, B, C ending? This statement was from January, where they had to have had the ending hammered out. Which means they told us false information.

Here’s Mac Walters saying “Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it’s being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn’t make” . Now we know as a FACT that the only influencing factor in your endings is your EMS at the end of the game, none of your actual choices are at all relevant. Did you killed some one (IMPORTANT) ot not? Doesn’t matter you get the RGB ending. Did you save a "race"? Doesn’t matter you get the RGB ending. Did you play through the series as a symbol of unity and tolerance or of victory at all costs? Doesn’t matter you get RGB as an ending.

Here’s Mac again saying “There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”.  Now can you honestly tell me that everyone getting to chose between these endings regardless of previous choices in series is anything but being forced into a bespoke ending everyone gets?

There are many more false promises that can be found here http://tinyurl.com/83tfol6 along with their sources.

Now if you come up with a story for yourself, or are giving it away for free then go nuts, I won’t complain it’s your perogative. However, the second you start asking me to PAY for the game, it is no longer just art, it’s also a product, and must be held up to the same standards as any other product.

When they promised us things about the ending, part of their artistic freedom logically goes out the window. When a consumer pays for a product, art or no, there needs to be an understanding that the product will function as advertised. Mass Effect 3 did not fufill it’s promises, promises most fans based their purchases off of. As such, Bioware entitlement to do whatever they want with the story was negated (see what I did there?).

If an artist sells me a painting of a horse, but when he reveals it to me after I’ve paid and it’s actually a painting of a car, he can’t defend himself by saying “I can paint whatever I want because it’s my art”. Sure it may be a good painting of a car, and maybe some people even like it better than a painting of a horse, but it’s still not what you told me I was paying for.

Another less abstract example for people here. I walk into Gamestop and buy a copy of God of War. I get home, open the case and find out they gave me a copy of Call of Duty. The next day I go back and try and get the game I payed for and the clerk yells at me “Don’t you see that Call of Duty is better than God of War!? Stop being so entitled, you paid for a game and I gave you a game, get out and stop whining!”. This is the situation we are at now with ME3.

The bottom line is Bioware did not give us the game they advertised. In any other instance keeping your promises is called basic customer service, in games it’s apparently ‘entitlement’. Yes I am entitled to get what I was told I would recieve when I pay for a product. Anyone who thinks differently doesn’t seem to know how business works, and regardless of whether or not ME3 is art, Bioware is a business."

Modifié par Heavenly_King, 24 mars 2012 - 08:34 .

[DaJe]

The ending is not art. It is detached from the rest of the series and literally ends with with advertisement for future DLC. That is not art, that is spitting on the mass effect franchise and all it's fans.

Modifié par DaJe, 24 mars 2012 - 08:30 .

[MarioO135]

No one is angry because the ending isn't like we hoped it would be.
We are angry because Bioware told us the ending would answer all questions without creating anything new. But the answers given were not exactly explaining everything. Plus they (the endings) don't make sense in the eyes of many (including me).

Bioware always tried to explain everything the Mass Effect series with science. But the ending we got isn't much more than space magic. There isn't anything artistic in an nonsense ending.

If the ending explained everything and really ended the story I wouldn't care that Shepard dies. But if an ending, which doesn't even tries to be realistic and explainable, is all Bioware can give to us, I am just... sad.

Modifié par MarioO135, 24 mars 2012 - 08:51 .

[element eater]

jaysabz i guess u stil watch the original version of  blade runner? 


like u im yet to play the game through as im waiting for them import issue to be resolved

I can say though that 'art' is not demeened through being changed not even in the slightest pretty much every major art form has had instances in which pieces have been changed in order to make fans/patrons/artists happy regardless of how you see it thats true.


also  art or not mass effect 3 is a game, if the game is made better what is the issue i would rather play a better game then an inferior one regardless of how it came about

finaly id have to question the integrity of mass effect as a piece of art as since me1 as it pretty much put every female character in cat suits gave them breast enhancements and features near constant arse shots in dialogue not to mention putting minor internet celebritys into the game over established characters simply for the sake of having them in the game. Doesnt seem all that artistic to me

SgtHydra wrote...

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Leonardo Da Vinci continuously changed and refined the Mona Lisa until his death. The painting, as far as its artist was concerned, is unfinished - but that does not make it any less of a work of art.

not to mention its even changed since his death

Modifié par element eater, 24 mars 2012 - 09:17 .

[Wildhide]

jaysabz wrote...

Well let's say you didn't like the way Hemmingway's novel ended. If he was alive today, you'd petition him to re-write it?

I'm not a gaming journalist, I have a real job.

"Art" to me is anything you can see or experience. Paintings. Movies. Video Games.

*SPOILER ALERT*




In the movie "Se7en" his wife's head is in the box.




*END SPOILERS*

So if you think she should've been saved, you want the actors to go re-do the ending?

You're all nuts.

You do realize the point so many movies have multiple endings on the DVDs is because they make several and have them tested by sample audiences to see which people will like the best, right?

Video games don't do this.