320 réponses à ce sujet

[Rulycar]

"They are a dying race, we should let them pass."
"The Geth or the Quarians?"
"Yes."

[Star fury]

Quarians. I'd choose always choose organics. And there is a small issue of Tali.

[Kingthlayer]

I wish I could chose to kill them both. Pro Human til the day I die!

[Lyrandori]

deaditegonzo102 wrote...

Quarians. It is like choosing between a laptop and a Dog, obviously the dog takes the advantage in that scenario.

This is essentially the question you are asking: [IRobot] "When does a perceptual schematic become consciousness? When does a difference engine become the search for truth? When does a personality simulation become the bitter mote... of a soul?" Quarians have always been like people, the Geth are like toasters that emulated people. You cant honestly blame the quarians for panicking, thats exactly how we'd react. A robot that is self-aware is extremely dangerous.

And why?

What is the danger in being self-aware? Being a robot? Or being self-aware?

If you program a robot to be like you, for example, and it becomes self-aware, then what is the danger, is it because it was programmed like you? Or because it's self-aware? If it's self-aware, then where within that paradigm is the danger? Self-aware that its creator is capable of violence and will thus try to kill the creator "just in case"? In the Quarians' case, they (Quarians) "panicked" for undue alarm. The Geth never attacked them, there was NO reasons to panick, other than because the Quarians lost control of their creation. The Quarians attempted to destroy their own creation because their creation couldn't be controlled anymore, which is a stupid reason.

If you train and "control" a dog, and the dog decices to stop obeing you, will you kill the dog? No? Why? Because it's "living" and a robot isn't living? But being self-aware isn't being a robot only anymore, the robot is still physically a robot, but if it's self-aware, capable to change its program(s) and decide by itself, isn't that making it alive? Does being alive necessarily have anything to do with chemistry, organic matter, cells and blood? Or does being alive reaches beyond physical reality?

My problem with the Quarians is that they tried to destroy the Geth the moment the Geth became self-aware. It's not just about destroying talking toasters trying to emulate an organic species. It's not even emulation anymore, it's being self-aware, they don't try to immitate, they ARE themselves. Trying to kill a self-aware being, a robot or not, isn't as casual as simply hammering a toaster to bits of metal and thinking "no big deal, the toaster was just a toaster anyway". That doesn't make sense.

Modifié par Lyrandori, 24 mars 2012 - 05:22 .

[D1ck1e]

Quarians. I chose the peace option, but then again, I didn't hesitate on choosing RED.

[DPSSOC]

shadey wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

They've done it twice.  First it was a small minority of the Geth who wanted to fast track to their end goal, second it was the entire race when the Quarians threatened them with extinction.  The first time was dealt with and the second wouldn't have happened if the Quarian Admiralty had two brain cells to knock together.

I like how "small minority" was every geth in the first game.

anyway that is twice too many times, regardless of what the quarians and geth did to each other that doesn't excuse geth then attacking everyone else.

They haven't.  The Geth in the first game were the small minority that followed Sovereign in return for a shell that could hold all Geth.  They were dealt with.  The Geth siding with the Reapers in ME3 are not attacking anyone they are simply defending themselves against Quarian agression.

shadey wrote...

News flash so would any other race.  If the Reapers extended the offer you can bet the Turians, Asari, Salarians, Humans, Volus, Hanar, Drell, Elcor, Vorcha, Krogan, Yahg, or anybody they'd take it.  If it comes down to help us wipe out everyone else or watch your species die nobody is picking the second option.

well I guess no one should be mad with the illusive man then right.

Why not?  If you fall into the everyone else category of course you can be mad at the guys selling you out, but don't delude yourself into thinking you, or anyone else, would do differently.

[Cat Lionheart]

I am a Talimancer on the side ( when not catering to my first love Liara) so Quarians easy.

[commanderkai]

Quarians.

Although the Morning War did paint them in a pretty negative light, at the same time, I can't really blame modern Quarians for the actions of Quarians 300 years ago. I don't blame modern Germans for the Holocaust, let alone blaming modern British, Spanish, French, Dutch, and Portuguese for their respective treatment of various indigenous groups during their colonial past.

More importantly, I can even sympathize. If my computer began to act strangely, by, you know, asking if it has a "Soul", I'd start getting somewhat concerned, and no doubt, I'll be hunting for some virus or trojan infecting my computer. Would you blame me? It'd be pretty...disconcerting, to say the least.

The Geth, although intriguing, did a few things that basically pissed me off. First, of course, was side with the Reapers. TWICE. If people think the Quarians were jerks to the Geth in the Morning War, what do you say to the Geth siding with those genocidal Reapers, hell bent on destroying organic civilization? Do the Geth ever try establishing peace with the Quarians? Couldn't they just contact the Quarians through Tali and say, "Oh hey, this is the Geth. We're sorry for the whole attempted genocide of your people. Our bad. We overreacted to that whole thing your ancestors did 300 years ago. So, since we don't want to fight anymore, we'll give you Rannoch, while we live on these space stations. Don't worry, we took care of Rannoch for you."

Lastly, the Geth can be rebuilt. Hell, Tali's father made Geth software from still functioning Geth hardware. Killing the Quarians cannot be undone. The Geth can be rebuilt.

[jarrettwold]

KillerHappyFace wrote...

So, if you HAD to choose Quarian or Geth, with no peaceful resolution possible and knowing only what Shepard would have known at the time of the choice, who would you choose?

I chose the Quarians.  I didn't know there was a paragon interrupt.  This came with a twist for me.  For me it was a choice between Tali and the Geth.  I chose Tali.  I played heavily Paragon for most of the game, but I went renegade with that choice.  I also felt pretty horrible about it, which should tell everyone how well the game was written and the emotional investment I had in it.

Although, I did let the Hanar homeworld die and didn't really care. I think that was due to them not having any anthropomorphic qualities.

Also, I liked Tali's face reveal. I know I'm the distinct minority, but whoever the stock photograph was of was pretty

[Rogue Unit]

The only people who'd pick the quarians (the people who just tried to murder you, the people who were at fault 300 yrs ago, the people who are at fault today) are idiots and horny Tali fanboys. Those are not mutually exculsive.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 24 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[ticklefist]

Quarians. They bleed and breathe.

[ticklefist]

Rogue Unit wrote...

The only people who'd pick the quarians (the people who just tried to murder you, the people who were at fault 300 yrs ago, the people who are at fault today) are idiots and horny Tali fanboys. Those are not mutually exculsive.

Or people that value real lives over artificial ones. 

[LegendaryBlade]

I'd side with the Geth, the Quarians were in the wrong and quite frankly if they want to march to their own genocide then let them. I'm not going to whipe out an entire race trying to defend itself just to save the attackers.

[DarkSpider88]

I can't kill Tali...

[Silentblaze]

Putting aside that Tali's my favorite LI, without peace the choice is narrowed down to whether or not you want Tali to come back to the Normandy. So I favor the option that allows me to have another squadmate to select from.

[Rogue Unit]

ticklefist wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

The only people who'd pick the quarians (the people who just tried to murder you, the people who were at fault 300 yrs ago, the people who are at fault today) are idiots and horny Tali fanboys. Those are not mutually exculsive.

Or people that value real lives over artificial ones. 

So you'd murder Miranda or Grunt before you kill TIM?

[jarrettwold]

Rogue Unit wrote...


So you'd murder Miranda or Grunt before you kill TIM?

They're both alive, genetically engineered, but both "real people." Just saying.

[Rogue Unit]

jarrettwold wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...


So you'd murder Miranda or Grunt before you kill TIM?

They're both alive, genetically engineered, but both "real people." Just saying.

Both were created made in a lab. Both are still "artificial".

[ticklefist]

Rogue Unit wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

The only people who'd pick the quarians (the people who just tried to murder you, the people who were at fault 300 yrs ago, the people who are at fault today) are idiots and horny Tali fanboys. Those are not mutually exculsive.

Or people that value real lives over artificial ones. 

So you'd murder Miranda or Grunt before you kill TIM?

Your definition of synthetic life is too broad. Everything you listed is a flesh and blood living being.

[deathscythe517]

This is actually a pretty damn tough question, on a resources rather than ethics deal I would like some kind of Renegade ability to deploy sometihng like what Admiral Xen wanted and mind rape the geth back into servitude.

On an actual me-as-a-person level though? Difficult, very difficult, the quarians formed DEATH SQUADS for christ's sake, they actively mercilessly hunted down and slaughtered geth and the quarian owners who wouldn't betray them. I'm sorry for invoking Godwin's Law but if the geth were alive the **** parallels would be damn obvious and given the quarian's space gypsiness, darkly ironic.

On the other hand the actions of some quarians of old show that not all of them condone the actions of their ancestors and indeed, many people seem to take major issue with the suicidal revenge-orientated taken by Gerrel and his supporters based on heavily tainted tellings of the geth uprising. The thing is it seems like people, as with modern politics, are apathetic to the political system and honestly seem to lack the backbone to take a legitimate stand against people who would see their fleets thrown away in an unnecessary conflict.

Overall I have more sympathy for the geth but I believe that all intelligent life should be preserved ala Mordin, if Tali didn't throw herself off a cliff, I likely would choose the geth every time.

[Zix13]

Quarians in the migrant fleet are the biggest ****s in the galaxy... for some reason the ones on pilgrimage are not... Probably have to pick geth. They're a bigger threat to the reapers and Legion >>>> Tali.

[Rogue Unit]

ticklefist wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

The only people who'd pick the quarians (the people who just tried to murder you, the people who were at fault 300 yrs ago, the people who are at fault today) are idiots and horny Tali fanboys. Those are not mutually exculsive.

Or people that value real lives over artificial ones. 

So you'd murder Miranda or Grunt before you kill TIM?

Your definition of synthetic life is too broad. Everything you listed is a flesh and blood living being.

 You said you value "real lives" over "artificial ones". Miranda and Grunt are artificial lives cloned and created in a lab. Therefor, you value TIM's life over theirs. One could even make an argument for Shepard's life being "artificial".
 
I much rather take a group of artificial lives than a bunch of vacuum packed, faceless morons.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 24 mars 2012 - 05:55 .

[hippanda]

Legion and the Geth had a pretty compelling argument, but that all flew out the window with the reaper code. "Geth build our own future" my ass.

Honestly, Legion's death/sacrifice was probably the 2nd worst-executed one (behind Shepard's). Too many plot holes and sudden shifts in character motivation/action.

Modifié par hippanda, 24 mars 2012 - 05:58 .

[shadey]

a mechanical unit becoming self aware isn't a life, this is presuming that is ever possible.

miranda and grunt were biological created units with individual characteristics and consciousness, geth are just a combined collective

mind blowing how many people would genocide an entire living species over some advanced AI program. There is also no future garauntee that geth with uploaded reaper code would not become corrupted

guess that is fanboy moral relativism in games for ya

Modifié par shadey, 24 mars 2012 - 06:02 .