320 réponses à ce sujet

[FRancium]

Upload data to empower the Geth. Tell Quarians to stand down. By attacking they chose their own death, not me. And I don't feel sorry for Tali either, after all she has seen, yet failing to stop the war, she failed her people, not me.

So Geth.

[jarrettwold]

Rogue Unit wrote..

Both were created made in a lab. Both are still "artificial".

Then your definition is so overly broad everything is artificial. If I take medication to sleep it alters the interaction of various chemicals in my brain. Do I then become "artificial"?

If an advance a little bit down the road, allows you to have your child born immune to a variety of diseases, are they artificial?

Is someone with a pacemaker artificial?

[ticklefist]

Rogue Unit wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

The only people who'd pick the quarians (the people who just tried to murder you, the people who were at fault 300 yrs ago, the people who are at fault today) are idiots and horny Tali fanboys. Those are not mutually exculsive.

Or people that value real lives over artificial ones. 

So you'd murder Miranda or Grunt before you kill TIM?

Your definition of synthetic life is too broad. Everything you listed is a flesh and blood living being.

 You said you value "real lives" over "artificial ones". Miranda and Grunt are artificial lives cloned and created in a lab. Therefor, you value TIM's life over theirs. One could even make an argument for Shepard's life being "artificial".
 
I much rather take a group of artificial lives than a bunch of vacuum packed, faceless morons.

I think it's a mistake to put genetically engineered people in the same category as artificially intelligent machines.  One has a brain, one doesn't. They're very dissimilar beings.

[Miekkas]

commanderkai wrote...

Quarians.

Although the Morning War did paint them in a pretty negative light, at the same time, I can't really blame modern Quarians for the actions of Quarians 300 years ago. I don't blame modern Germans for the Holocaust, let alone blaming modern British, Spanish, French, Dutch, and Portuguese for their respective treatment of various indigenous groups during their colonial past.

More importantly, I can even sympathize. If my computer began to act strangely, by, you know, asking if it has a "Soul", I'd start getting somewhat concerned, and no doubt, I'll be hunting for some virus or trojan infecting my computer. Would you blame me? It'd be pretty...disconcerting, to say the least.

The Geth, although intriguing, did a few things that basically pissed me off. First, of course, was side with the Reapers. TWICE. If people think the Quarians were jerks to the Geth in the Morning War, what do you say to the Geth siding with those genocidal Reapers, hell bent on destroying organic civilization? Do the Geth ever try establishing peace with the Quarians? Couldn't they just contact the Quarians through Tali and say, "Oh hey, this is the Geth. We're sorry for the whole attempted genocide of your people. Our bad. We overreacted to that whole thing your ancestors did 300 years ago. So, since we don't want to fight anymore, we'll give you Rannoch, while we live on these space stations. Don't worry, we took care of Rannoch for you."

Lastly, the Geth can be rebuilt. Hell, Tali's father made Geth software from still functioning Geth hardware. Killing the Quarians cannot be undone. The Geth can be rebuilt.

I cannot even comprehend your logic.

1. No, I cannot blame the modern quarians for a war 300 years ago, but I sure can blame them for starting yet another war and trying to commit genocide AGAIN without even once attempting to establish peace. Face it, the quarians are completely unrepentant that their ancestors in time became slavemasters and tried to kill their slaves and then became resentful when their slaves rebelled because they did not want to be subject to genocide.

2. The Quarians automatically attacked the geth a second time. To use your analogy, this is like the Germans starting World War III because they were sore about losing World War II.

3. Only a very small sect of the geth sided with the Reapers the first time, and the second time the  geth only sided with the Reapers because it was that or be wiped out. This point is made in the game, and Tali is horrified that her people had forced the geth into such a state of desperation that they were forced to turn to the Reapers for help. She seriously sounds like she is ready to cry when she learns the truth from Legion.

4. Why would you try to establish peace and contact the same people that tried to commit genocide against you? I apologize if this is blunt, but only an idiot contacts the person who just tried to kill them in cold blood to try and make peace with them. No, your natural reaction to distance yourself in any fashion possible from that person, and if they come near you again, you lash out in instinctive self defense. You don't invite back the same people who tried to commit genocide
against you. To use your Germany example again, this would be like the Jews
driving the ****s out of Germany and then being stupid enough to invite
them back.

5. The geth acted in self defense and merely drove the quarians from Rannoch because the quarians attempted to commit genocide against them first. And once the quarians were pushed out of the system through the Mass Relays, the geth immediately stopped pursuing. Legion tells you that the geth never had any intention of wiping out the quarians. They simply wanted to defend themselves from the quarians' attempt at genocide.

6. The geth never tried to commit genocide, but the quarians did TWICE. I would hardly call the geths' reaction an overreaction. If someone tries to kill you, and you fight back and end up killing that person or at least leave them badly injured, that is not an overreaction in my opinion.

7. Yes, the geth can be rebuild, but they are sentient beings, thus still making it murder. I could try to justify killing quarians by saying that more quarians could always be born.

[The Real Bowser]

I would pick Quarians, not for the quarians (even though they are my favorite race in the game), but for Tali. If Tali did not kill herself, I might consider geth, but the genocide of my favorite race in this universe is a little too much to bear.

[Miekkas]

shadey wrote...

a mechanical unit becoming self aware isn't a life, this is presuming that is ever possible.

miranda and grunt were biological created units with individual characteristics and consciousness, geth are just a combined collective

mind blowing how many people would genocide an entire living species over some advanced AI program. There is also no future garauntee that geth with uploaded reaper code would not become corrupted

guess that is fanboy moral relativism in games for ya

Do alittle research into how the human brains works and get back to us. You would amazed at how your brain acts very much like a highly complex super computer.

[GundamHeavyarms]

I sided with the Geth. While I like the Quarians, they did try to eradicate the Geth simply because one of them asked if it had a soul. The Quarian could have said yes or no, instead it got scared and brought about the Morning War.

The Geth tried peace, but the Quarians wouldn't have it. Despite everything my Shepard did, they still went on and attacked the geth! Even though I brought Legion on Tali's mission and had Legion talk to the Admirals, suggesting peace was an option.

Tried getting them to stand down. They refused. Even though it meant sacrificing innocent lives, even though there was a chance the Reapers could have found a way to control the Geth, I sided with them. And would side with them again if forced to. They want peace with the Creators, a peace that, unless you have a high enough Paragon/Renegade score, won't happen.

My one regret is that you can't save Legion. =(

[D Wrecks]

Considering the Paragon/Renegade colored options to convince the Migrant Fleet to back off came after deciding whether to allow Legion to upload the Reaper code, we all must have made this decision before being able to breathe a sigh of relief that we can have both. It honestly was not something I decided right away. I sat there for about a minute before urging Legion to upload the code - despite that Tali was my lover.

Modifié par Just Cav, 24 mars 2012 - 06:33 .

[jarrettwold]

ticklefist wrote...

I think it's a mistake to put genetically engineered people in the same category as artificially intelligent machines.  One has a brain, one doesn't. They're very dissimilar beings.

Time to jumpstart the opposite side of the argument.  If artificial intelligence, gets past the turing test... as in driving by doing a hundred with a middle finger out the window.  Then those AI would qualify as sentient life just as much as us.  

[Conduit0]

Quarians.

No Quarians = No Tali

No Tali = Galaxy not worth saving

[D Wrecks]

jarrettwold wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

I think it's a mistake to put genetically engineered people in the same category as artificially intelligent machines.  One has a brain, one doesn't. They're very dissimilar beings.

Time to jumpstart the opposite side of the argument.  If artificial intelligence, gets past the turing test... as in driving by doing a hundred with a middle finger out the window.  Then those AI would qualify as sentient life just as much as us.  

The fact that the Geth were able to ask if they had a soul - and subsequently decide for themselves that the answer is yes - is enough to convince me that they rival organics in terms of sapience.

[jarrettwold]

Just Cav wrote...
The fact that the Geth were able to ask if they had a soul - and subsequently decide for themselves that the answer is yes - is enough to convince me that they rival organics in terms of sapience.

Rival, equal, or surpass?

[D Wrecks]

All of them.

[Hydralisk]

Taleroth wrote...

Geth. Quarians chose their fate. They had every opportunity to avoid it.

[Rogue Unit]

Conduit0 wrote...

Quarians.

No Quarians = No Tali

No Tali = Galaxy not worth saving

 Point proven.

[Karrie788]

Geth. My favorite movie of all times is Blade Runner.

[Taldek]

Geth, Quarians will turn on the geth again, bound to be 1 night someone will get drunk and say the wrong thing.

[jarrettwold]

Just Cav wrote...

All of them.

What makes them superior?  Do they internalize that knowledge and act on it?  Is a distinction drawn between them and us if they do feel superior?  If there's a distinction drawn, is that overtly negative?

[Lyrandori]

Taldek wrote...

Geth, Quarians will turn on the geth again, bound to be 1 night someone will get drunk and say the wrong thing.

Emergency Induction Port.



Sorry, it had to be said, you know it.

[Senario]

I would choose Quarians. Because, "I'm deeply concerned about the Quarian people" lol.

I honestly think Quarians as a whole are interesting because they represent quite a lot, from being the species that knows the most about loss of their homeworld to discrimination even on the Citadel. Which is brought up a few times in ME1-2. How badly they were treated just because they were Quarians. At least in my view of "Commander Shepard" It is somewhat of a reflection of himself and his career. Or at least that's how I see because of his identity. Was on Mindoir and got attacked by Slavers, Was the sole survivor of a Thresher maw attack. And since he doesn't look at all like his last name would be "Shepard" he is Adopted somewhere after Mindoir lol.

[Halberd96]

Well I'd choose Quarians for the reasons the OP said, on the other hand though I guess when you consider the threat of the Reapers and the strength of the Geth I would much rather have the Geth on my side than the Quarians...

So I guess choosing the Geth is a bit of a renegade thing to do.

[D Wrecks]

jarrettwold wrote...

Just Cav wrote...

All of them.

What makes them superior?  Do they internalize that knowledge and act on it?  Is a distinction drawn between them and us if they do feel superior?  If there's a distinction drawn, is that overtly negative?

I was more referring to the fact that Legion was trying to broker a truce while the Quarians (or at least the person representing and leading them) wanted to destroy a defenseless adversary. I'd consider the diplomatic one to be of a higher intellect.

[tenojitsu]

Geth

[Shared]

Yeh woulda saved teh geth... The quarians where at fault, and i really hated that one admiral.

[IntoTheDarkness]

Quarian. Quarians shouldn't have stared a war, it's all their fault.

But the blame only lies on the admirals.

and organic lives are much more valuable than that of synthetics, even if synthetics are alive and innocent.

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 24 mars 2012 - 06:55 .