320 réponses à ce sujet

[Miekkas]

One would think that after the 300 years of discrimination that the quarians have gone through, they would learn to apply it as a life lesson when it comes to the geth. Nope, instead they decide it is a jolly fine idea to try and commit genocide again. You know there's something wrong when Tali, whose father was killed by geth, pleads her people not to go to war with the geth because of her friendship with Legion.

Sorry, I'll side with the pacifists who have only ever acted enough to ensure self-defense over the one who started out as slavemasters and eventually started down the road to multiple attempts of genocide.

[IntoTheDarkness]

I will raise a question. So because Quarians wronged Geth, entire species consisting 17 million civilians should die for programs and hard wares? If you are paragon, the rational choice will be quarians.

[Computer_God91]

Genocidal slave driving maniacs or peaceful machines? Geth all the way. The quarians are stupid and warmongering. They don't learn from their mistakes and attacked a peaceful race of machines because it asked a question.

Modifié par Computer_God91, 24 mars 2012 - 06:58 .

[TLK Spires]

speaking as a 100% impartial judge with no personal stake, not favoring either side, and no ability to bring about a compromise, if i had to pick which side was both in the right and more morally promising, i would go with the geth.

[shrimprahmen]

thats a tough one. on one hand the geth are still the same geth from the morning war....they didnt follow the quarians to wipe them out they did what they did in defense of themselves. on the other....half of them sided with the reapers to fight organics...then again because of the quarian attack...i can see allying with the reapers to save themselves from the quarians..but what happens after?? do they still follow reapers in wiping out organics?? for me that is inexcusable and for a split second..i really wanted the geth destroyed. Then theres the quarians....its been 300 years...its been generations since morning war....why hold on to old hate when you could have used that time to just find a new planet....hell most of the quarians wanted that...they followed narrow minded leadership and it almost cost them if it hadnt been for shepard. could go on..but im rambling....in the end i perfer the peace i brokered between them...but if i didnt have that choice...the geth would be destroyed just on the fact they were willing to work with the reapers...any race...organic or sythetic would have been on the chopping block for that in my eyes if there were no other choice

[Karrie788]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

I will raise a question. So because Quarians wronged Geth, entire species consisting 17 million civilians should die for programs and hard wares? If you are paragon, the rational choice will be quarians.

They are synthetic, true, but they have full conscience and are, by all purposes, living things.
I fail to see how helping them is renegade.

[MacabreMilkman]

 Is it wrong that I sacrificed an entire race because my girlfriend is a Quarian?:innocent:

[jarrettwold]

MacabreMilkman wrote...

 Is it wrong that I sacrificed an entire race because my girlfriend is a Quarian?:innocent:

Hey I did it too.  Which is why you and I should never be in charge XD

[MacabreMilkman]

jarrettwold wrote...

MacabreMilkman wrote...

 Is it wrong that I sacrificed an entire race because my girlfriend is a Quarian?:innocent:

Hey I did it too.  Which is why you and I should never be in charge XD

Wow  we do suck at the big desicions. I saved the Krogan because Wrex is such a badass, and let an entire race go extinct because I want to bang a Quarian.

[Nobrandminda]

If I HAD to choose, I'd turn the game off.  

I said as much before the game came out that if I had to make a "Virmire choice" between the quarians and the geth, I'd just stop playing the game, and i stand by that now.  If, on any future playthrough, I find myself in the situation where I'm not able to bring peace to the quarians and the geth, I'm going to start over and try again.

[jarrettwold]

Miekkas wrote...

One would think that after the 300 years of discrimination that the quarians have gone through, they would learn to apply it as a life lesson when it comes to the geth. Nope, instead they decide it is a jolly fine idea to try and commit genocide again..

What if the geth in turn decide, that they will be attacked endlessly by organics, face genocide at every turn and that results in the extinction of the organics.  

Let's say the geth release a series of viruses, a nuclear option if you will.  That's intent would be to, oh I don't know, create intense pain anytime an organic thought of attacking synthetics.  At that point if the virus spirals out of control and leads to the extinction of organics.

Were the reapers right at that point?

[Darthlawsuit]

Geth. They were in the right to begin with. Also since the Quarians are now just carbon copies of humans they must be exterminated. Only room in this Galaxy for one human race, we don't need bad copies.

[Verethele]

Without knowledge of the ending: Save the Geth.

With knowledge of the ending: Save the Quarians.

[jarrettwold]

MacabreMilkman wrote...


Wow  we do suck at the big desicions. I saved the Krogan because Wrex is such a badass, and let an entire race go extinct because I want to bang a Quarian.

Yup, I also let the hanar ambassador send out his code.  I didn't feel bad about that.  My line of thought was "if they're that stupid..."

I saved the Krogan because I felt it was the right decision, and that we needed them.  A race of brutal warriors on our side.  Make that call everytime and sort out the consequences later.

So I allowed a genocide to happen, deliberately made one happen all in the pursuit of a chick.  In fact, throughout the entire game, I realized I was playing for Tali.  Saving the universe? Obstacle to Tali.

Edit:  I really want this thread to be like 400 pages long.  So far, big thinking.  Big thoughts are fun.

Modifié par jarrettwold, 24 mars 2012 - 07:43 .

[Fred_MacManus]

 Geth, without a doubt. Despite my love for Tali, the geth are innocent of anything other than trying to defend themselves when the quarians tried to murder them. They even chose to stop pursuing the quarians once the quarians broke off combat and fled, even though they could have easily hunted them down and slaughtered them all. For three hundred years, they acted as caretakers of Rannoch, waiting only for the quarians to return IN PEACE, and the quarians chose instead to attempt, once again, to slaughter them.

As far as I'm concerned, the geth are innocent victims in the matter, and deserve to be treated as such.

[commander_shepard]

To me, this was a pretty easy decision. Due to my import decisions, I didn't have to make this call but given the options, I would have picked the geth any day.

Looking at the facts...

1) When the geth first developed self-awareness, the quarians first attempted to re-program them. Once that failed, they tried to kill them. If that's not genocide, then I'm not sure what is.

2) Even though the geth decided to exercise restraint by not pursuing the quarians, the quarians didn't reciprocate.

3) Even after the geth were defenseless (after killing the reaper), the quarians still pressed on with the attack. Admittedly, this was on the orders of Han'Gerrel but I'm not sure that 'I was just following orders' is a really good reason.

4) The geth didn't even *WANT* to fight. They were simply acting in self-defense.

Oh, that and I really wanted Han'Gerrel to die screaming after the BS he pulled...

Modifié par commander_shepard, 24 mars 2012 - 07:50 .

[majormajormmajor]

I choose to kill the krogan.

[Silvair]

KillerHappyFace wrote...

I thought that the climax of the Quarian-Geth conflict was beautiful. The choice, in particular, was really cool --  with absolutely no conclusive 'right' answer. Every way to end the conflict was 100% rationally justifiable.

Sure, peace would be considered the best possibility, but at the time there were significant reasons to doubt it.

So, if you HAD to choose Quarian or Geth, with no peaceful resolution possible and knowing only what Shepard would have known at the time of the choice, who would you choose?

EDIT: Also, please refrain from nihilism.

I'd choose the Quarians.
   
   -Sure, they started (and perpetuated) the war, but there are innocents within the fleet with no desire for war. The very nature of the Geth necessitates that if the Geth killed the Quarians, every single Geth would be culpable.
    -Legion was becoming very difficult totrust, because it stopped trusting Shepard. It sprung the Primes without telling anyone. It kept Reaper upgrades to itself. It decided the lives of all off-planet platforms were worth more than an entire race and culture.
    -There are sizeable numbers of on-world Geth. If Legion was willing to sacrifice some Geth (who aren't fully individualized at this point) to save both Geth and Quarian, he'd have postponed the upload.
    -Despite being fully capable of doing so, the Geth never once responded with attempts at diplomacy instead of military might (in the current conflict). All diplomacy had to come from Shepard.
    -The Geth knowingly sided with the Reapers. Furthermore, there was no guaruntee that the Reapers couldn't find a way to conrol them again.
    -Betraying Legion makes it die in a much more dramatic manner. Also, Tali uses a murder knife! (this one isn't serious.)

In fact, for these very reasons, I chose the Quarians over a peaceful resolution in my second playthrough. If I ever play ME3 again, I may end up killing the Geth more often than brokering peace. To me, it seems to be the most secure choice given what Shepard knows at that point in the story.

EDIT: BSN format fixed. Some clarifications.

I did have to choose the first time (Not enough war assets to save both, but thank god I had a quicksave before the mission so I could reload and fix that.)

I chose the Quarians because

a) Tali was my LI

  I didn't really care for Legion anyways, having known him for all of 10 minutes in ME2, then supposed to act like he was an "old friend" like Tali or Garrus...

c)  Legion's outburst (thrashing and then trying to kill Shepard) at Shepard choosing Quarians over Geth was totally out of character.  I honest to god thought that the Reaper code had overtaken him.  Prior to that, it had always objectively acknowledged Shepard's decisions, for better or for worse.

d) I had recently finished reading Ascension, so I had gotten a new appreciation for the Quarians and their culture, and didn't want to lose them (And more importantly, Tali).


On a side note, I did find it entertaining how easily Legion just beat the crap out of Shepard in an instant.

[Conduit0]

jarrettwold wrote...

MacabreMilkman wrote...


Wow  we do suck at the big desicions. I saved the Krogan because Wrex is such a badass, and let an entire race go extinct because I want to bang a Quarian.

Yup, I also let the hanar ambassador send out his code.  I didn't feel bad about that.  My line of thought was "if they're that stupid..."

I saved the Krogan because I felt it was the right decision, and that we needed them.  A race of brutal warriors on our side.  Make that call everytime and sort out the consequences later.

So I allowed a genocide to happen, deliberately made one happen all in the pursuit of a chick.  In fact, throughout the entire game, I realized I was playing for Tali.  Saving the universe? Obstacle to Tali.

Edit:  I really want this thread to be like 400 pages long.  So far, big thinking.  Big thoughts are fun.

So the real reason for the existance of the Reapers is revealed, to be a ****block for each cycles space messiah.

[joiner87]

I would have to say Geth, I love Tali....but the Geth got a bum deal

[DarkSpiral]

I would feel terrible about it, but it would boil down to Tali vs Legion for me, so I'd go Quarian with most of my Shepards.

[commander_shepard]

Silvair wrote...
I did have to choose the first time (Not enough war assets to save both, but thank god I had a quicksave before the mission so I could reload and fix that.)

I chose the Quarians because

a) Tali was my LI

I know it's just a game... but this is the reasoning you apply when choosing to save an entire race?

Silvair wrote...
  I didn't really care for Legion anyways, having known him for all of 10 minutes in ME2, then supposed to act like he was an "old friend" like Tali or Garrus...

Same as a

Silvair wrote...
c)  Legion's outburst (thrashing and then trying to kill Shepard) at Shepard choosing Quarians over Geth was totally out of character.  I honest to god thought that the Reaper code had overtaken him.  Prior to that, it had always objectively acknowledged Shepard's decisions, for better or for worse.

How would you act if someone was about to wipe out your entire race?

[jarrettwold]

Conduit0 wrote...
So the real reason for the existance of the Reapers is revealed, to be a ****block for each cycles space messiah.

Would you like some koolaid? Just trust me.  Trust me, please? 

Another question is who fear strikes first and their capability to do something about it.  Geth are clearly afraid of dying.  So would that ever reach a level where their fear grew so large, they decided that homogeneity of synthetics would simply trump organics?

A very cold war question.

[Goneaviking]

I chose, and would again, the Geth
  
* They didn't initiate the conflict either at the beginning, nor in this most recent flare up. When they regained their self-control they were willing to allow the quarians to withdraw, the quarians instead attempted to take advantage of the geth's perceived vulnerability to exterminate them.
* The geth function in a consensual government where every program takes part in the decision making, by contrast the quarians are a functional tyranny ruled over by warlike leaders.
* The Quarians are untrustworthy. They attempted to destroy the dreadnaught knowing that Shepard & (admiral) Tali were onboard, despite having requested the Alliance's assistance. Also, they demonstrated themselves as being without honour or dignity at Tali's trial in ME2.
* Even accepting their unprovoked assault upon the geth their is no forgetting that they were willing to gamble the survival of their entire species on the attack.
* Even having encountered Legion aboard the Normandy, and learning that a)the Geth have no desire for war with the quarians and they are willing to negotiate, they quarians refuse even to consider the option despite Shepard's insistence.


After their death Hackett tells you about how they had been causing problems along the Turian border for years, it seems that installing them on their own planet is likely to lead to ongoing conflict with the quarians because they're so very very aggressive (or untrustworthy, or reckless, or stupid).

[jarrettwold]

commander_shepard wrote...

Silvair wrote...
I did have to choose the first time (Not enough war assets to save both, but thank god I had a quicksave before the mission so I could reload and fix that.)

I chose the Quarians because

a) Tali was my LI

I know it's just a game... but this is the reasoning you apply when choosing to save an entire race?

It may sound cheesy, but if a house is on fire and there is someone you don't know trapped vs your wife/gf and you can only rescue one, who do you rescue?  I can be honest enough, that I would be selfish and save the one I love at the cost of another or many.

Edit:  It may make me a horrible person, but that would be my instinct and I would go with it.  I would also have nightmares about it.  I sat at the dialog choice between Legion and Tali for a good fifteen minutes trying to decide.  Ultimately, I went with Tali.  Greedy self interest.

Modifié par jarrettwold, 24 mars 2012 - 08:03 .