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[Zix13]

Those people saying she's not racist... did you play ME1?

[Grimwick]

Zix13 wrote...

Those people saying she's not racist... did you play ME1?

She never discriminated against aliens and from what I remember did not make any prejudicial comments about other species.

All she can be accused of, really, are pro-human preferences - which is natural considering her background and how recently humans had made it into space.

[JBPBRC]

GroverA125 wrote...

For example, Wrex is a badass (on the scale from redshirt to Liam Neeson (1-10), he's a Sean Connery (8) on the scale, and Javik is a Prothean, which immediately scores him unique points.

What is the rest of the scale?

I need it. Desperately.

[Demoiselle]

JBPBRC wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

For example, Wrex is a badass (on the scale from redshirt to Liam Neeson (1-10), he's a Sean Connery (8) on the scale, and Javik is a Prothean, which immediately scores him unique points.

What is the rest of the scale?

I need it. Desperately.

I'd say 'Calibrator' is a solid 9.

[Foxhound2121]

Oh my favorite Ashley quote, " I can't tell the difference between aliens and animals."  <_<

[Bill Casey]

Foxhound2121 wrote...



Oh my favorite Ashley quote, " I can't tell the difference between the aliens and the animals."  <_<

I liked having Ashley say that after listening to the conversation between the lecherous Volus and one of Shai'ra's employees...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 29 mai 2012 - 07:33 .

[MegaBadExample]

GroverA125 wrote...

1) They have other features that make up for this area. For example, Wrex is a badass (on the scale from redshirt to Liam Neeson (1-10), he's a Sean Connery (8) on the scale, and Javik is a Prothean, which immediately scores him unique points.

2) They need to be meme fodder. I won't even start with Wrex, but I will with Javik, I know of two memes which have been used on a wide number of occasions.

Ashley has none of these, she is essentially the "Not everyone is an SAS commando with witty remarks on everything"-filler that is only there to make all of the remaining characters seem better in some way. In other words, she's basically built from the ground up as a tritagonist, while every other character is a deuteragonist. Kaidan is the same, but the fact that he's an alright guy who has a few stories other than "I believe in the baby Jesus and think we're all about to be screwed over by the aliens" kind of makes up for that area.

Or in short: it's simple, nobody loves Ashley, and those that do are clearly not as numerous or vocal as those who love the other characters.

It's safe to say, that Ashley seems to be more popular than Kaidan as she's saved more than half the time on Virmire.

The negative always drowns out the positive, though. Ashley does have a huge fan base, but after five years of the same old song? Yeah, we get tired of commenting in these threads, or some of us left the ME3 fandom completely (like some folks I know). Of course, we're not as large as Garrus and Tali's, though. But no other character fan base can compete with those two… maybe Liara. But she's became Bioware’s golden girl so I'm not surprised in slightest.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 29 mai 2012 - 07:43 .

[MegaBadExample]

Foxhound2121 wrote...



Oh my favorite Ashley quote, " I can't tell the difference between aliens and animals."  <_<

Confirmed to be a bugged.

But even at that, Ashley says she's never served in space, or with aliens before. It's all new to her. If you were walking down the street and you saw a hanar or an elcor? Would you not think the same? Is that an bear? What is that?

Ashley isn't racist. I didn't get one sign of it in ME3. Geez can some people not forgive and move on? We all say things we regret when we're young and inexperienced, we learn and grow up. That's life.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 29 mai 2012 - 07:39 .

[Bill Casey]

I like the character conflict better coming from Ashley...
She's the perfect lancer for Paragon Shepard...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 29 mai 2012 - 07:50 .

[EricHVela]

They kept throwing Ashey's anthropocentrism into Shepard's face throughout the series (if she lived). Her only reason was because her family taught her to hate "aliens" due to their involvement in the First Contact wars. Some bad apples spoiled the entire bunch for her, and she didn't even get to meet those apples for herself.

Javik is from a time of imperialism. It was a way of life throughout the galaxy. Still with Shep's help, he actually starts to come around.

Wrex has to be anthropocentric. Someone has to take care of his people. They might be too proud to admit it, but they needed guidance and help. Even in ME1, Wrex still cares about his people when nobody else seems to care despite Wrex trying to hide it (until Virmire where it shows that he definitely still cares about his people).

Sorry. I wish Ashley could have learned to evolve away from the bigotry that her family taught to her.

The closest to her development away from her parental-induced bigotry is when there is an ME2 news report about a post-mortem foundation in her honor where they misquote (or quote something else of) her saying that everyone of all species are just animals (when she actually said that she couldn't tell the difference between the "aliens" and the animals when she was on the Presidium in ME1).

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 29 mai 2012 - 07:52 .

[Foxhound2121]

Bill Casey wrote...

I like the character conflict better coming from Ashley...
She's the perfect lancer for Paragon Shepard...

But the paragon option between "the choice of Liara or Ash" is rejecting Ashley...

[Bill Casey]

Yeah, I didn't romance Ashley...
I kept her around to be a foil for the hero...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 29 mai 2012 - 08:01 .

[MegaBadExample]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I like the character conflict better coming from Ashley...
She's the perfect lancer for Paragon Shepard...

But the paragon option between "the choice of Liara or Ash" is rejecting Ashley...

A real paragon wouldn't play two women at the same time.

You have to be interested in both to get that scene.

[Bill Casey]

Alternatively, if you want to be a jackass, you can try to get both Liara and Ashley into bed with you by suggesting a threeway. Then on Horizon, bring Miranda and Jack with you, and tell Ashley "you know me, Ash. You know I'd only do this for the right reasons"...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 29 mai 2012 - 08:12 .

[Volc19]

Wrex had license to not like the other species because they stood by while the Turians and Salarians sent them into a cultural dark age and enacted a slow genocide to his people.

Javik would see the world from the same perspective of you, if you woke up in the distant future, where the worms, chickens, and dogs ruled the Galaxy.

Ash is just a racist just because. I could see a bit of friction with the Turians, what with the First Contact War, but there isn't a logical reason for her not trusting Wrex, Liara, or Tali.

[WhiteKnyght]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah i'm opening up this can of worms again. Now before you start making up excuses for Wrex and Javik, lemme ask you this. If I hate the British as a whole, for the crap that went down 300 years ago, would you make up excuses for me? There really is no real excuse out there for hating an entire race based on the actions of a few. Ashley had trust issues with other aliens but eventually grew out of it and trusted them as allies.

But then you've got Wrex who just openly insult Salarians and Turians in front of them, even go as far as joking about eating them. Then you've got Javik who just straight out trolls people. Not to mention there are other characters in the game that have made statements about trusting other aliens and what not. So why is Ashley the exception? Because she's human?

I don't know why it took me this long to notice this.

The reason is reason.

Ashley has no reason to hate aliens. She simply feels intimidated by them because of her beliefs. Religious intolerance.

Wrex is bitter because the Salarians and Turians have caused the in-utero deaths of trillions of Krogan children and put their race at risk of extinction. But Wrex, unlike other Krogans like Wreav, is actually friends with a Turian and is willing to work with Salarians.

Javik though. I've never seen any true racism from him except towards machines. Which isn't the same as organics because AI's actions are dictated by their programming, not a real conscious choice. Geth were programmed to be Peaceful. So they're more inclined to make choices for peace if they deem it possible.

[MACharlie1]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah i'm opening up this can of worms again. Now before you start making up excuses for Wrex and Javik, lemme ask you this. If I hate the British as a whole, for the crap that went down 300 years ago, would you make up excuses for me? There really is no real excuse out there for hating an entire race based on the actions of a few. Ashley had trust issues with other aliens but eventually grew out of it and trusted them as allies.

But then you've got Wrex who just openly insult Salarians and Turians in front of them, even go as far as joking about eating them. Then you've got Javik who just straight out trolls people. Not to mention there are other characters in the game that have made statements about trusting other aliens and what not. So why is Ashley the exception? Because she's human?

I don't know why it took me this long to notice this.

The reason is reason.

Ashley has no reason to hate aliens. She simply feels intimidated by them because of her beliefs. Religious intolerance.

I wouldn't chalk it up to her religious beliefs which are simply belief in some sort of omnipitent being. I'd chalk it up to being the grand daughter of a guy who surrendered to a bunch of avian aliens.

But first things first. I don't believe Ashley ever states that "Yeah, humans are better then aliens" or that they are a lesser group which is a key component of racism. She is nationalistic however. She doesn't trust the other species - when she says that she means their governments. It's the equivalent to saying that I don't trust the Russians or the English - which isn't fueled by preconceived and petty notions but actions in the past or belief in ones own identity and being a big macho guy and going it alone. It is a perfectly acceptable political position. Everyone looks out for their own. Other countries are going to put their countrymen first before someone elses. Thats pretty much fact. 

Racism would involve her not liking them because all Turians are hot headed bird people who go rogue. 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 29 mai 2012 - 08:19 .

[NoUserNameHere]

She's a religious person who happens to be xenocentric in a non-Cerberus fashion.


Not a xenophobe who bases this on religious grounds. Her God speech and her alien lines are not even in the same conversation.

[GroverA125]

JBPBRC wrote...

GroverA125 wrote...

For example, Wrex is a badass (on the scale from redshirt to Liam Neeson (1-10), he's a Sean Connery (8) on the scale, and Javik is a Prothean, which immediately scores him unique points.

What is the rest of the scale?

I need it. Desperately.

1: Redshirt
2: Any non-named side character (from any film)
3: Generic Die-hard-esque character
4: Any Character from the Matrix
5: Cpt. Price
6: Sgt. Major Johnson
7: Arnie ("Get to the Choppa!")
8: Sean Connery
9: Robert Downey Jr. / Tony Stark
10: Liam Neeson

[Iakus]

terdferguson123 wrote...

Well, going by her quotes in the game, and how she talks about how everything couldn't have just  happened without a god,she obviously believes in the god that created everything, right? So, that rules out the vast majority of gods, and centers on one whether it be one that exists now, or one that exists in the future, it doesn't matter, to her it's and intelligent god. Which makes no sense, becuase nothing about the universe is intelligently made really, watch this video:

She doesn't say "God" she says "something"  And she only says even that if Shepard acknowledges that he/she is also religious.  

None of which has anything to do with her suspicion of aliens either.

[Archontor]

11 Chuck Norris

[Iakus]

Zix13 wrote...

Those people saying she's not racist... did you play ME1?

Yes.

Many, many times.

You?

[knightnblu]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Foxhound2121 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

BioWare screwed over Ashley. They began with a tough NCO who worked her guts out to excel and took her duties to the Alliance and her men seriously. When she met Shepard, he was something different. She expressed an interest and the spark took hold and kindled a romantic flame. Unfortunately, that woman was dead by ME2.
 
In ME2 we meet a young woman who has moved up in rank, but distrusts Shepard with every fiber of her being. She calls him a traitor to his face and then stalks off. When ME3 rolls around we find out that she has not contacted him since the tepid email that she sent after Horizon. Six months without a single word or even inquiry regarding him. She even refused Admiral Anderson's request for her to go and see him, such is her disdain for him.
 
Then all of a sudden Shepard and Williams find themselves in the uncomfortable position of being ship mates once again. That is until the Cerberus android nearly crushes her skull on Mars. Girlfriend pulls through and is made a Spectre with Shepard's support and she aims her sidearm at his head with her finger on the trigger as a thank you. After somehow managing to talk psycho babe down, you save the Council one more time to Williams chagrin.
 
Who is the Williams that we get in ME3, because it sure as hell isn't the woman we met in ME. Tali is pretty much the same, so is Liara, but Williams? Not so much. I have seen every excuse in the book for Williams' bizarre behavior. The apologists are legion in fact, but apologizing and excusing and licking her backside like a little lamb doesn't change the fact that she is bat guano crazy.
 
That is why I have less than no use for Lt. Cmdr. Williams. Was her comment about not being able to tell the aliens from the animals racist? Sure it was, and I don't buy for a second that it was a "mistake" in dialog. That was just the excuse when the word "racism" popped up. But just as Pressley worked through his bout of racism, so to did Williams. So in the final analysis Williams is no longer racist, she's just psychotic.
 
That's why I send her to Admiral Hackett. Perhaps with him she can finally receive the help that she so desperately needs. Plus he has armed security with him 24/7 if she returns to the "pull a gun on a superior officer" meme again.
 
Cute, but psycho is definitely her flavor.

She distrusts the fact that Shepard is working for a TERRORIST ORGANISATION! What part of this are you not getting? Yes, she calls him a traitor, BECAUSE HE TURNED HIS COAT! It doesn't matter what headcanon you have cooked up. Shepard swore and oath to the Alliance, an oath that continued to apply even after resurrection. Now, some interpret that loyalty to humanity and the galaxy means more, but that doesn't change the fact that he did betray what he previously stood for.

This is actually pretty comical since Admiral Hacket is also working with a terrorist organization during Arrival. Does this make him a traitor? Oddly enough, Ash doesn't seem to have a problem trusting admiral hacket.

If I recall Hackett was working with Shepard and ONLY Shepard. No companions, no interaction with Cerberus. Nothing. Just Shepard. And at the time, Shepard can be completely finished with Cerberus as well (completed ME2).

You recall incorrectly. If Shepard was a Cerberus asset, as has been claimed by many Ashley apologists, then Admiral Hackett's patronage is also suspect because he actually trusted and worked with a terrorist. As I recall, Admiral Hackett said that he didn't like Cerberus, but that they were the only ones who were doing anything about the state of the galaxy so he would play nice for now and he also wanted to give that particular terrorist (Shepard) a medal. Funny how that works isn't it?
 
Because that doesn't seem to hold with the "Shepard is a traitor!!" crowd's ideology. Because if Shepard is a traitor by their definition, then so is Admiral Hackett because he fits the same criteria that they have set up for Shepard. Since Hackett is a traitor by the apologists definition, Anderson must be one as well because he works with and trusts both Hackett and Shepard. Seems like the whole Alliance if filled with turn coats and traitors doesn't it? Or maybe Ashley really is a crazy broad with an itchy trigger finger.
 
She lies to Shepard telling him that she loved him, but doesn't trust him. Strange kind of love that. She also says that she believes he is no longer with Cerberus, but she obviously doesn't given her constant accusations and questions. Further, she tells him point blank that she will accept his command, but she aims her weapon at his head with her finger on the trigger when push comes to shove and if you shoot her to save the Council that she has endangered, she hopes that the Reapers kill you. How sweet. These don't seem like the actions of a normal girl to me.
 
How she ever came to the rank of Lt. Cmdr. is beyond me. Rank is far more than a decoration with pretty insignia affixed to the collar or epaulets. It signifies wisdom, judgment, and experience. Williams bears only one of these traits. She is a skilled killer and that is pretty much it. If she actually had wisdom and good judgment she wouldn't be constantly looking for the traitor (Shepard) to sell them all out. In fact, she is far worse than Carth Onasi ever was in KotOR regarding trust issues. If she still trusts Anderson and Hackett, it can only be because she is ignorant that they have worked with and trust each other status post Cerberus. Because by her definition (like her apologists), they are also traitors to the Alliance.
 
Williams is reckless and her unfounded accusations and lack of trust in her commanding officer is justification enough to strip her of her commission and boot her shapely behind out of the Alliance for brazen insubordination and stupidity before her hard headed insubordination and steadfast disdain gets some poor, dumb, innocent S.O.B. killed.
 
Of all the possible LIs, only Ashley is this fouled up and that is exactly why Udina wanted to make her a Spectre. He knew that she had not a single ounce of trust for Shepard and that she was feigning respect and esteem for him. In short, her stupidity would allow him to take over the Council. Ashley being a racist compared to that is small potatoes.

Despite her daddy issues, Miranda is a far better companion than the Ashley of ME2 and ME3.

[MegaBadExample]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah i'm opening up this can of worms again. Now before you start making up excuses for Wrex and Javik, lemme ask you this. If I hate the British as a whole, for the crap that went down 300 years ago, would you make up excuses for me? There really is no real excuse out there for hating an entire race based on the actions of a few. Ashley had trust issues with other aliens but eventually grew out of it and trusted them as allies.

But then you've got Wrex who just openly insult Salarians and Turians in front of them, even go as far as joking about eating them. Then you've got Javik who just straight out trolls people. Not to mention there are other characters in the game that have made statements about trusting other aliens and what not. So why is Ashley the exception? Because she's human?

I don't know why it took me this long to notice this.

The reason is reason.

Ashley has no reason to hate aliens. She simply feels intimidated by them because of her beliefs. Religious intolerance.

Wrex is bitter because the Salarians and Turians have caused the in-utero deaths of trillions of Krogan children and put their race at risk of extinction. But Wrex, unlike other Krogans like Wreav, is actually friends with a Turian and is willing to work with Salarians.

Javik though. I've never seen any true racism from him except towards machines. Which isn't the same as organics because AI's actions are dictated by their programming, not a real conscious choice. Geth were programmed to be Peaceful. So they're more inclined to make choices for peace if they deem it possible.

Oh, boy. This one made me laugh. Religious intolerance, really? Have you even read back on the thread?

[MegaBadExample]

Volc19 wrote...

Wrex had license to not like the other species because they stood by while the Turians and Salarians sent them into a cultural dark age and enacted a slow genocide to his people.

Javik would see the world from the same perspective of you, if you woke up in the distant future, where the worms, chickens, and dogs ruled the Galaxy.

Ash is just a racist just because. I could see a bit of friction with the Turians, what with the First Contact War, but there isn't a logical reason for her not trusting Wrex, Liara, or Tali.

"Ash is just racist just because"

I see.

"There isn't a logical reason for her not trusting Wrex, or Liara" Really? Despite the fact, that Liara is the daughter of the freaking ENEMY in ME1? Or that Wrex is an unpredictable mercenary with a shortfuse, who even threatens Shepard (and yes mildly assaults him physically), before joining? 

It takes time, but eventually, she does learn to trust them, though. Have you even played ME3? Please quote how Ashley was racist in ME3. I'm dying to know.

I think the problem is that most people don't give Ash the chance, nor do they want to.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 29 mai 2012 - 08:59 .