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[MegaBadExample]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...


mom, I was a dick to this girl and she still doesn't like me!!! wa!

To recipricate her own actions. I think that is the most important part.

Like a child?

Geez, you think Shepard would be more focused on pressing matters instead of trying to make a girl feel bad about not joining a terrorist organization when he said so!

[DirtySHISN0]

iakus wrote...
She judged based on what she saw and heard.  Shepard couldn't do much while incarcerated.  But once he's out and kicking Cerberus tail again, she sees it's still Shepard.

Which brings me to the point - she could have seen that all along if she thought logically about the situation in the first place.

Yeah, funny how people react negatively to being treated in a petty and vindictive manner, huh? 

Unsuprisingly it would appear Ashley thinks she's the only one who can do it.

That's a problem with autodialogue, not Ash.

I guess it is, but its her personality that brings me to this conclusion.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 29 mai 2012 - 10:39 .

[MegaBadExample]

_aLucidMind_ wrote...

People hate on Ashley's "racism" because they do not know the definition of the term and think mere mistrust or dislike means that the person must be racist. Racism requires the feeling of being superior to the race being looked down on and to outright hate them in an irrational manner for an often illogical reason.

That one line she has when she says she can't tell the aliens from animals? It is an ignorant one, NOT a racist one; it is a matter of how she says it rather than what she says; how she says it makes it apparent she isn't around anyone outside her species. She says earlier in the game that she has never worked with aliens before and haven't really seen them outside of vids; she has always been around humans. Then there is the Turians using excessive force (destroying entire city blocks to destroy a small platoon). Then there is the Alliance blacklisting her family because her grandfather surrendered, which she blames the Alliance for more than the Turians.

She is merely xenophobic; xenophobia is having a prejudicial mistrust or dislike in a race or species. A xenophobe is more than willing to work with the ones they hate; a racist will not, regardless of being a soldier. Ashley willingly works with the aliens and even gets along with them. She has not had a single line or moment in any of the three games where someone can accurately claim she is racist or specieist.

Anyone claiming she is racist simply doesn't know what a racist is and thinks merely disliking a nation is the same thing. In other words, they're stupid. Tali is far more of an example of a racist than Ashley is.

[DirtySHISN0]

MegaBadExample wrote...
Like a child?

Geez, you think Shepard would be more focused on pressing matters instead of trying to make a girl feel bad about not joining a terrorist organization when he said so!

your point is? Ashley is doing the same thing. In the middle of battles.

Its not like i have a lot of options.
Cant kill both on virmire.
Cant  opt out of some of her conversations.
Cant tell her i dont like her even with the renegade option.
I ignore her when ever possible, actively dont talk to her, but still have to put up with forced "i thought you were my friend" conversations. I dont like the fact that im supposed to like her.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 29 mai 2012 - 10:49 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Nyoka wrote...

Well done dude. THAT'll teach her!

Now seriously, she doesn't trust you, so you, instead of trying to regain her trust, are a dick to her, but want her to trust you anyway? Good for Ashley, I say, for showing a bit of spine there. She takes no sh*t from you and stands up for her own principles. She's no fangirl. Hey, maybe that's why some don't like her...

You misinterpret. Im not interested in her trust, but there is no option to say that. She has to be your "friend" regardless of how you play it.


see above.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 29 mai 2012 - 10:50 .

[MegaBadExample]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...
Like a child?

Geez, you think Shepard would be more focused on pressing matters instead of trying to make a girl feel bad about not joining a terrorist organization when he said so!

your point is? Ashley is doing the same thing. In the middle of battles.

Its not like i have a lot of options.
Cant kill both on virmire.
Cant  opt out of some of her conversations.
Cant tell her i dont like her even with the renegade option.

Ashely's acting like a child? Hardly. She's doing her research on you. Do you know why Cerberus has suddenly decided to attack an Alliance base and slaughter troops? It is a question, not an accusation.

By Ashley willingly working with you through that mission, it shows what she wants. She wants to trust you again, but you certainly don't make it easy, nor do you actually try.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 29 mai 2012 - 10:50 .

[Iakus]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

iakus wrote...
She judged based on what she saw and heard.  Shepard couldn't do much while incarcerated.  But once he's out and kicking Cerberus tail again, she sees it's still Shepard.

Which brings me to the point - she could have seen that all along if she thought logically about the situation in the first place.

is it illogical to fear that Shepard turning himself in to Alliance authorities isn't some kind of long con on the part of the Illusive Man?  That he has some way of monitoring or even controling Shepard that simply hasn't been found yet?  Remember what she said about the huskified trooper, it's exactly what she's afraid has happened to Shepard under his face.

Yeah, funny how people react negatively to being treated in a petty and vindictive manner, huh? 

Unsuprisingly it would appear Ashley thinks she's the only one who can do it.

Ah, yes, "She started it" the unassailable point of logic I have no defense against 
Oh, wait, yes I do: "Act like a grownup and take the high road" 

[Iakus]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...
Like a child?

Geez, you think Shepard would be more focused on pressing matters instead of trying to make a girl feel bad about not joining a terrorist organization when he said so!

your point is? Ashley is doing the same thing. In the middle of battles.

.

Citation needed

[DirtySHISN0]

MegaBadExample wrote...

By Ashley willingly working with you through that mission, it shows what she wants. She wants to trust you again, but you certainly don't make it easy, nor do you actually try.

My point. 

You are supposed to like her, therefore there aren't any ways to say you don't. Its just assumed you want her trust back.

[DirtySHISN0]

iakus wrote...
Ah, yes, "She started it" the unassailable point of logic I have no defense against 
Oh, wait, yes I do: "Act like a grownup and take the high road" 

There is no high road, you can't ignore her. You either kill her or forgive her. Neither are appropriate.

[MegaBadExample]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

By Ashley willingly working with you through that mission, it shows what she wants. She wants to trust you again, but you certainly don't make it easy, nor do you actually try.

My point. 

You are supposed to like her, therefore there aren't any ways to say you don't. Its just assumed you want her trust back.

You're supposed to like Liara, Tali, Garrus... Hell, even Javik to a degree.

Deal with it.
 I wonder how you fair with them? - "AWESOME ALIENS!" ?

[Iakus]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

iakus wrote...
Ah, yes, "She started it" the unassailable point of logic I have no defense against 
Oh, wait, yes I do: "Act like a grownup and take the high road" 

There is no high road, you can't ignore her. You either kill her or forgive her. Neither are appropriate.

You're half right :innocent:

[Iakus]

Nyoka wrote...

I think we're already clear why Ashley acts like she does. Her reasons have already been stated.

Back on topic then. I just want to say in her favor that the things she was afraid would happen in ME1 actually happened in ME2 and ME3. Aliens saying "good luck humans you're on your own" when the real hard times come, and alien squadmates acting independently behind Shepard's back (Legion sending classified Alliance data to the geth without permission). Maybe Shepard should have paid more attention when Ashley shared her concerns.

Yup.

Ash was right all along.

[DirtySHISN0]

MegaBadExample wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

By Ashley willingly working with you through that mission, it shows what she wants. She wants to trust you again, but you certainly don't make it easy, nor do you actually try.

My point. 

You are supposed to like her, therefore there aren't any ways to say you don't. Its just assumed you want her trust back.

You're supposed to like Liara, Tali, Garrus... Hell, even Javik to a degree.

Deal with it.
 I wonder how you fair with them? - "AWESOME ALIENS!" ?

I'm indifferent to most of them, they have their good and bad points.

[stevefox1200]

I love how people want a game where you can openly be hostile to your co-workers and teammates because you don't like them

Even if Shepard did not like any team member for any reason he would not be hostile to them because they are part of a squad and depend on each other

and she pulled a gun on you because she was acting as a body guard to the council, one of which you are most likely threatening to kill

I would do the same thing to because its my job to protect them

[DirtySHISN0]

Nyoka wrote...

I think we're already clear why Ashley acts like she does. Her reasons have already been stated.

Back on topic then. I just want to say in her favor that the things she was afraid would happen in ME1 actually happened in ME2 and ME3. Aliens saying "good luck humans you're on your own" when the real hard times come, and alien squadmates acting independently behind Shepard's back (Legion sending classified Alliance data to the geth without permission). Maybe Shepard should have paid more attention when Ashley shared her concerns.

Humans have had their fair share of negative impact on the galaxy aswell, both alliance and cerberus.
Its fair to say that even the citadel races turn their back on each other when things get tough.
Every species for itself, rather than humans vs aliens.

[DirtySHISN0]

Nyoka wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

I think we're already clear why Ashley acts like she does. Her reasons have already been stated.

Back on topic then. I just want to say in her favor that the things she was afraid would happen in ME1 actually happened in ME2 and ME3. Aliens saying "good luck humans you're on your own" when the real hard times come, and alien squadmates acting independently behind Shepard's back (Legion sending classified Alliance data to the geth without permission). Maybe Shepard should have paid more attention when Ashley shared her concerns.

Humans have had their fair share of negative impact on the galaxy aswell, both alliance and cerberus.
Its fair to say that even the citadel races turn their back on each other when things get tough.
Every species for itself, rather than humans vs aliens.

Oh, so you and Ashley agree.

Only on this. The final nail in the coffin was her refusing to join the normandy in ME2, at least that way she could have made an informed decision.

[Iakus]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...


Only on this. The final nail in the coffin was her refusing to join the normandy in ME2, at least that way she could have made an informed decision.

Refused?  She was an active Alliance officer and you asked her to join up with a terrorist organization?

Makes perfect sense 

Modifié par iakus, 29 mai 2012 - 11:59 .

[stevefox1200]

Why would Ashely want to join in ME2?

Shepard is part of a terrorist group and she is military

If she joined you she would be looking at a long time in military prison when it was over

Modifié par stevefox1200, 30 mai 2012 - 12:00 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Two birds, one stone.

Shepard is still alliance. Gets punished as such and gets the right thing done in between.

[TwelfthCrusader]

Javik is probably the least racist character in the game. He doesn't single anybody out or treat anybody differently based on their race, he just hates everything.

[Gartives]

As someone who supports Ashley as a character I have to write my opinion and defend her.

In my opinion Ashley isn't racist. I think it's safe to write that she is distrustful to aliens, cause she never had  a chance to cooperate with them and she really doesn't know them.

To people who think she is a racist: do you really tried to understand her? She is new in a space, her family had bad experience with aliens... and I think distrust to somebody/something which we don't know can be justified.
And in fact she is right about the council. They offered place in council to humans and status of the spectre for Shepard only because they needed help from the Alliance. Council doesn't trust Shepard even after events from ME1. What's more members of the council don't trust all the humanity and other races which can't participate in council. I think that what council does it is discrimination and racism. I think it's not only about aliens/humans relations but also about politics and business of every race. In fact each race takes care and thinks only of itself. Shepard had to work long time in order to unite them all. So if you call Ashley a racist, maybe almost everyone in the galaxy is a racist?

I think that during the whole game Shepard influences on all crew members. Nobody is perfect. For example I've really liked Garrus from the beginning of the game but during my first ME1 playthrough every time when my paragon Shepard talked with Garrus he had to tell him what is right and what's wrong. Sometimes it annoyed me but I think it's good that everybody has own feelings and thoughts and sometimes Shepard can convince them to look at things from different perspective and change theirs views.
I think Ashley during ME1 had learned a lot from Shepard. She learned to work with aliens, she become friends with Tali, she also thought about Liara when she was in bad condition... She was disgusted when she discovered that Garrus is working for Cerberus, so she had to think about him positively before that. She even blame Cerberus for being racist organization. In ME3 she risks her life to protect the council. Where is racism in her behavior?


 I was sometimes annoyed during the ME3 about Ashley's doubts and all the "you worked for Cerberus" stuff, but I can understand her. Let's look at things from her point of view... she doesn't know what's really going on. She thought Shepard was dead, it took her long time to deal with it and I think she has never really move on, then she heard that he is probably alive and working with terrorists. For Ashley it means that he betrayed Alliance and ideals which are so important for her. I think her doubts about who he is are justified. Shepard can be pissed but he can't blame her for this situation. I was very satisfied during that scene where Shepard watches videos from Cerberus base: he started to ask himself who he really is and Ashley's answer clearly shows that she has no more doubts about Shepard and that she really loves him.

And what's more...If Shepard was indoctrinated by reapers or controlled by Cerberus, only Ashley would discover it and maybe save them.


To be honest I think that a lot of people don't like Ashley because she is a realistic character. She has strong personality and her own opinions and beliefs. If you think she is bad written, don't you know any people who are similar to her in a real life? What's more, Ashley likes poems(!), maybe it is not so trendy these times to read poems, so some people can see it as a huge disadvantage or find it boring (as I read somewhere on BSN), but I like Tennyson too;).
Ashley's relationship with Shepard isn't so perfect and unproblematic like for example relationship which Shepard can have with Liara, but for me more realistic character/relationship is better character/relationship.


I'm a girl and if I had to chose one character from ME to identify with, I would probably chose Ashley. So I can understand her very well.

In my opinion Ashley is perfect LI for a paragon Shepard and I can't see my Shepard without Ashley as LI and Garrus as best friend=].

Modifié par Gartives, 30 mai 2012 - 10:39 .