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So if people hate Ashley because they think she's "racist", then why do they like Wrex and Javik?


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#601
PsyrenY

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Made Nightwing wrote...

Ash kept a healthy suspicion of Shepard's motives and loyalties. When she was convinced, she stopped. End of story. If you can't accept her apology for not trusting you, that's your problem, not hers.


If someone apologizes for scratching your car, and proceeds to keep doing it, would you believe the first apology was genuine?

Look, I'll save you a lot of trouble - I'll always go with Kaidan over Ashley, even when I don't plan on romancing him. That's how much I dislike her. And the fact that BW put another soldier in the game instead of another Sentinel says to me that Ashley was not the statistical favorite either.

#602
joshko

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You have to understand, Wrex and Javik are not human thus by 20th century logic, they can't be racist.

#603
MegaBadExample

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Foxhound2121 wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Actually she says "Bug thing". :P

not true

MegaBadExample wrote...

If it was your first time witnessing all these different species... some big, small, tiny ect.

Keepers, elcors, hanars ect.

Would you not think the same? Seriously now.

But
again, what does it matter? Ashley has for the first time,
truly experienced space, other races and clutures since joinging up with
Shepard. She now knows things that she didn't before, and she is
anything but racist in ME3.


That just makes it worse by her being ignorant. The keeper could be a senator for all she knows. She obviously knows where she is at the time. No, if I happen to stroll on a galactic space station someday knowing billions of aliens are there, I wouldn't refer to them as animals the first time I see them. If that is her first impression of them, then she views herself on a podium as a higher being. This is something racist people tend to do.  


Ah, so she's still racist to you then? Despite all the evidence claiming otherwise?

#604
Generic Screen Name

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Optimystic_X wrote...

Where did I ever mention Ashley asking questions? It's her lack of apologies for those questions (compared to Kaidan) that I take issue with.



"I worked with terrorists and you don't like that, so you should apologise to me."

#605
PsyrenY

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Made Nightwing wrote...

@Foxhound. Nope, she's told that the Keeper is a maintenance drone. She literally can't tell the sapient/non-sapient species apart. Outsider's perspective, not higher perspective. You're grasping.


Still waiting for that proof that her obviously racist slur was only directed at Keepers. (as if that makes it any more palatable, but still.)

Generic Screen Name wrote...

"I worked with terrorists and you don't like that, so you should apologise to me."


"You think I'm such an idiot that I can't work with bad people to get what I want without turning bad myself."

That's a direct insult to YOU. Were you not able to grasp that?

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 30 mai 2012 - 04:57 .


#606
MegaBadExample

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I wonder if us humans put universal translators on our “animals” to understand them - would we still think of them as animals? LOL

#607
Made Nightwing

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Optimystic_X wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Ash kept a healthy suspicion of Shepard's motives and loyalties. When she was convinced, she stopped. End of story. If you can't accept her apology for not trusting you, that's your problem, not hers.


If someone apologizes for scratching your car, and proceeds to keep doing it, would you believe the first apology was genuine?

Look, I'll save you a lot of trouble - I'll always go with Kaidan over Ashley, even when I don't plan on romancing him. That's how much I dislike her. And the fact that BW put another soldier in the game instead of another Sentinel says to me that Ashley was not the statistical favorite either.


Hypotheticals are fine, but that's just an idiotic comparison to make, given that on the Citadel, you were pointing a gun at a human Councillor. Frankly, I'm amazed that Ash trusted my Shepard as fast as she did when the idiot looked like he was on a killing spree. So yeah, someone apologises for scratching my car. But I'm not going to blame him for locking me out and holding a shotgun on the door when I'm swinging an axe into it. Maybe I'm just trying to save him from a gas leak, but he doesn't know that.

I like both Kaidan and Ash, but I don't quite see what your preference has to do with her character. Regardless, the numbers show that Ash is generally the favorite, so your 'statistics' are kinda bull.

#608
teh DRUMPf!!

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For that matter, Mordin. In ME2 he shows a pretty arrogant view toward the krogan even outside when he defends the genophage.

#609
Made Nightwing

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Optimystic_X wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Foxhound. Nope, she's told that the Keeper is a maintenance drone. She literally can't tell the sapient/non-sapient species apart. Outsider's perspective, not higher perspective. You're grasping.


Still waiting for that proof that her obviously racist slur was only directed at Keepers. (as if that makes it any more palatable, but still.)

Generic Screen Name wrote...

"I worked with terrorists and you don't like that, so you should apologise to me."


"You think I'm such an idiot that I can't work with bad people to get what I want without turning bad myself."

That's a direct insult to YOU. Were you not able to grasp that?


BioWare's already said that the line was bugged. Your problem, not hers. 

"I worked with terrorists, after having disappeared for two years and giving no hint as to my whereabouts. I'm sorry that you thought I'd gone completely off the rails like Saren, who also tried to justify his actions with roundabout logic."

Better.

Modifié par Made Nightwing, 30 mai 2012 - 05:06 .


#610
Generic Screen Name

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Optimystic_X wrote...


"You think I'm such an idiot that I can't work with bad people to get what I want without turning bad myself."



If I wanted something done, I probably wouldn't join al-Qaeda to get it done, especially when there are alternatives.

That's a direct insult to YOU. Were you not able to grasp that?


Shepard and I aren't the same person. And just for the record, Shepard's an idiot.

#611
Iakus

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[quote]Optimystic_X wrote...

Do you have proof that line was only meant to apply to Keepers? I don't play telephone games.[/quote]

I will try to dig through posts, but finding the original may take some time (this is years ago, remember).  But the original writer confirmed that it's supposed to be just the Keepers, and Ash is supposed to sound vaguely confused.

In the meantime, if you fire up ME1 and wander around the Citadel, Ash should only give that comment when in fairly close proximity to a Keeper.  Just, not close enough to so it's unmistakable, sadly.


[quote]iakus wrote...

How many times does someone have to apologize to you before you accept it?[/quote]

Enough to make me believe it. The fact that she kept questioning my allegiance after that one "apology" was damning.[/quote]

I'd suggest doublechecking her Mars dialogue again.  She doesn't question Shepard's loyalty.  Certainly not after the apology.  She questions that Cerberus let Shepard go.  That they're still manipulating Shep somehow, and Shepard may not even be aware of it.

[quote]
Let's agree to disagree is no apology. It means "I still believe what I believe, I just don't feel like arguing about it anymore."[/quote]

That's not what was said at all.  They acknowledged that they both said and did regretable things best left in the past and start fresh.  That's what grownups do when they realize both sides have valid points.

Of course, to get that far you have to acknowledge that Ash was right to be upset that Shepard was working with Cerberus.

[quote]iakus wrote...
Obviously if you've already gotten that far, you didn't care about the milkwater "apologies" she tossed your way before, so that's moot.[/quote]

Could you provide with a list of times and places where apologies and regret count and when they don't?  Might make things easier if I knew where the goalposts were exactly.

Modifié par iakus, 30 mai 2012 - 05:14 .


#612
Foxhound2121

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MegaBadExample wrote...

Ah, so she's still racist to you then? Despite all the evidence claiming otherwise?


What evidence? It's common for someone to say something racist and then try
to justify it by claiming, "oh, but I have a black/asian/green/blue friend, so it's all cool."

Made Nightwing wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Foxhound. Nope, she's told that the Keeper is a maintenance drone. She literally can't tell the sapient/non-sapient species apart. Outsider's perspective, not higher perspective. You're grasping.


Still waiting for that proof that her obviously racist slur was only directed at Keepers. (as if that makes it any more palatable, but still.)

Generic Screen Name wrote...

"I worked with terrorists and you don't like that, so you should apologise to me."


"You think I'm such an idiot that I can't work with bad people to get what I want without turning bad myself."

That's a direct insult to YOU. Were you not able to grasp that?


BioWare's already said that the line was bugged. Your problem, not hers. 


The line is bugged. That must mean that it doesnt exist?

Modifié par Foxhound2121, 30 mai 2012 - 05:16 .


#613
PsyrenY

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Made Nightwing wrote...

BioWare's already said that the line was bugged. Your problem, not hers.


Telephone game. Got proof?

Made Nightwing wrote... 
"I worked with terrorists, after having disappeared for two years and giving no hint as to my whereabouts. I'm sorry that you thought I'd gone completely off the rails like Saren, who also tried to justify his actions with roundabout logic."

Better.


"I was dead for two years. Which I explicitly told you on Horizon. And Anderson wouldn't tell me how to contact you when I went to see him. What did you want me to do, e-mail you from beyond the grave?"

Seriously, logic.

#614
Archontor

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MegaBadExample wrote...

I wonder if us humans put universal translators on our “animals” to understand them - would we still think of them as animals? LOL

 

Considering most are less intelligent yes. 

Gorillas however have been taught sign language and their handlers maintain that they are people.

Besides I'd you're still defending that quote there's a massive flaw. 

They all wear clothes. Well apart from the Hannar who can float, presumably by using mass effect fields which I doubt people would use on an animal.

#615
OneWithTheAssassins

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I stopped hating her for being racist long ago. Now, I hate her because she won't shut the **** up about me being with Cerberus!

#616
MegaBadExample

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OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

I stopped hating her for being racist long ago. Now, I hate her because she won't shut the **** up about me being with Cerberus!


Ashley won't STFU? She asks TWO questions on Mars. TWO questions after that length of time apart without contact. If she didn't ask any questions at all - it would make no sense.

Sorry, but if I can put up with Quarian admirals every playthrough I can definitely put up with that.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 30 mai 2012 - 05:40 .


#617
Joryn01

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I just find her boring.

#618
Generic Screen Name

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Archontor wrote...

They all wear clothes.



So clothes are a benchmark for intelligence now? I'll watch what I say around those little dogs from now on.

Well apart from the Hannar who can float, presumably by using mass effect fields which I doubt people would use on an animal.



Yeah they would. Besides, Hanar look like big jellyfish regardless of altitude.

#619
PsyrenY

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Generic Screen Name wrote...

So clothes are a benchmark for intelligence now? I'll watch what I say around those little dogs from now on.


Unless all those aliens are being dressed by their owners, your analogy makes no sense at all.

#620
MegaBadExample

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Optimystic_X wrote...

Generic Screen Name wrote...

So clothes are a benchmark for intelligence now? I'll watch what I say around those little dogs from now on.


Unless all those aliens are being dressed by their owners, your analogy makes no sense at all.



Wonder who dresses the Hanar, Volus and Elcor?

WAIT. WHY DOES NO ONE DRESS THE KEEPERS!?

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 30 mai 2012 - 05:52 .


#621
Generic Screen Name

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Optimystic_X wrote...

Unless all those aliens are being dressed by their owners, your analogy makes no sense at all.



When did I say that all the aliens look like animals? Elcor, Hanar, and Keepers look like animals, the fact that the Elcor wear clothes doesn't change that, because people dress animals in stupid outfits all the time.

#622
Archontor

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Generic Screen Name wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Unless all those aliens are being dressed by their owners, your analogy makes no sense at all.



When did I say that all the aliens look like animals? Elcor, Hanar, and Keepers look like animals, the fact that the Elcor wear clothes doesn't change that, because people dress animals in stupid outfits all the time.


Most of them don't allow the pets to walk around on their own. Or go shopping on their own.

#623
PsyrenY

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Generic Screen Name wrote...

people dress animals in stupid outfits all the time.


*facedesk*

#624
MegaBadExample

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*facedesk*

What has this got to do with Ashley?

She isn't racist. End of.

#625
Iakus

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MegaBadExample wrote...

*facedesk*

What has this got to do with Ashley?

She isn't racist. End of.


Yeah at this point I'm about ready to chalk it up to "haters gonna hate" and move on.