771 réponses à ce sujet

[BP93]

ericjdev wrote...

The reasons I hate Ashley are myriad, her racism is just the icing on the cake. I wanted to go back and let her survive Virmire just so I could shoot her.

God, I love irony so, so, so much.

[MegaBadExample]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...



The fact that all the alien crew members in ME3 seem to be fond of her?
Defends the council?
Cares about Liara? Saved Liara. Comforts Liara.
Cries over Tali's death if she dies?

Ashley might be a hundred other things, but she's not racist. Get over it.

Ashley´s personality was turned about 180 degrees, in ME1 she was racist, always blaming aliens ... since SR1 blew to hell she has no chance to meet with crew becase everyone goes own way, and in the ME3 she is surpisly BIG SISTER AND WE ARE ALL FRIENDZ ... OMFG rly OMFG 

No she didn't. She grew up, calmed down - it's called character development EVERY major character goes through it. If anyone has done 180s it's Liara, Garrus and Tali.

This is what Ashley ACTUALLY said to Tali in ME1:

Ashley: Are you okay, Tali? It looked like you got some dirty looks back there.
Tali: Many think less of quarians for traveling in the flotilla, and for creating the geth. They see us as scavengers, little better than thieves.
Ashley: That is sort of what I’d heard about your people. I guess you’re not in any one place long enough for people to get to know you.

Get over it. Can you not accept the fact that Ashley does care about "teh aliens"? Wth is your problem?

[Archontor]

Well ash likes Tali, everyone likes Tali

Seriously though she still suggests that the quarians would have to hang around long enough to prove to other people that they aren't thieves. Suggesting that she thought they were all thieves to begin with. Rather telling, I say.

[Arturia Pendragon]

MegaBadExample wrote...

This is what Ashley ACTUALLY said to Tali in ME1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch

I'll just leave this here. Take from it what you will.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 30 mai 2012 - 10:31 .

[Made Nightwing]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

This is what Ashley ACTUALLY said to Tali in ME1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch

I'll just leave this here. Take from it what you will.

But that's the exact dialogue that proves she isn't racist. She's not referring to the aliens as the 'dogs', she's referring to humanity as the dog that the Council might sic on the bear someday.

[Applepie_Svk]

MegaBadExample wrote...
@Applepie

Forced? Nearly every crew member is forced in some way. Are you indifferent to them?

Ashley asks TWO questions on mars, TWO questions after that long with contact. They are not accusations either.

Ashley only shoots Wrex because he was about to blow her Commander's head off. Wrex didn't trust Shepard nor would he stand-down in the situation. So don't blame Ashley for your crappy leadership skills. Ashley did her duty. Shepard even says to Ashley before confronting Wrex: "Be ready... Just in case." That's an order, and she's got to obey.

I have to laugh at these folks comingin and saying "YOU" like you are Commander Shepard. That's the problem; Shepard is your avatar and you take it personal when he gets called out. Anybody who questions him/or sides against him is wrong, right? Every person in this world has the right to judge you - everybody judges. Thats exactly what you're doing to Ashley right now.

Your post in completely inaccurate... it's unreal. How can you be so ignorant about this issue? Oh, yeah - maybe if you actually paid attention to what she was saying. She doesn't hate aliens, nor does she blame them, listen - she blames the Alliance for what happened to her grandfather. Not the aliens. She doesn't trust Wrex and Garrus because they are strangers off the street. Hell, Wrex assualted Shepard before even coming aboard. Go back and play ME1, listen to what she says, and think for a second.

And yes, Shepard is a traitor in ME2. But Ashley still sends a damn apology to him.

1.Forced - Yes, I have never chance to say Anderson NO Get that woman out of that SHIP because I hate her attitude.

2.Ashley was questioning you since ME1, always about something - if Anderson put her in charge than she could do as it fit to her but she was under your command and she always question your decisions.

3.Yes she can shoot Wrex but she could just paralize him and not use whole ammo clip do see his guts ... rly and she did it without order - so she again dismiss her Commanding officer LoL

Yes As Sheppard is my avatar in game I don´t care about countless amout of questioning from side of Ashley, she was saying Aliance first in ME2 - but what did aliance for these colonist ? Well ... nothing ? So if was Cerberus one who investigate Collectors and help Sheppard more than Aliance - which always demmand answers
than she has no right to doubt about Sheppard.

Ashley was always looking on aliens with distance, it was why I don´t like her but in ME3 we are all friends ... it´s sick, and after all events on Citadel she will return to dock like just nothing happened O.o
Yes she doesn´t believe to strangers from street than why should Sheppard believe to some unknown soldier which was recruited by someone else? If it was Sheppard choice to take a Ashley on ride - fine but in my scenario it would never happened.  

She once said something that everyone should care for himself - umm well it´s reason why we had 2 world wars - because everyone start care for himself too much. Well it was reason why we had also Krogan rebelion - because they thought only about themself, in ME3  such a quote - What is mine is mine and What is your is yours cannot work O.o or we all be dead...

4. Sheppard cannot be traitor - he/she was dead meat ressurected by prohuman terrorist organization, it could be salarians with STG or asari but it was the Cerberus. Still Shep owe to Cerberus atleast effort which they put to bringing Sheppard back, so hell yes after what he learned about Collectors  and Reapers he need support from Cerberus because if he just run to Aliance and Council - they put him into cutody two years ago and Collectors could finish their human Reaper.... For me were traitors Council and Aliance which don´t give a crap about what happened SR1 and they dig it in archives and lock it somewhere very deep, after what Sheppard was ressurected they start once again acting in rush with blaming Sheppard for treachery and denial...
Cerberus know the true value of Sheppard - still I don´t support the Cerberus but in that time there wasn´t better choice work with them - they gave you resources, crew, ship, life and only what they ask in return to blew Collectors to hell til the end.

[Lyrebon]

MegaBadExample wrote...

And yes, Shepard is a traitor in ME2. But Ashley still sends a damn apology to him.

Traitor? Are you perhaps negating to remember that Shepard was clinically dead for two years and was brought back to life in the middle of a conflict? How does a human mind react to that situation? Shepard finds out the Alliance have turned their backs on her, ignoring the evidence, denying help to the human colonies being attacked by the Collectors, and the only source even willing to admit the real threat, instead of covering it up with lies and dishonesty, is Cerberus.

Call them evil, call them inhumane - they are - but they are the only organisation in the entire galaxy willing to face the real threat while everyone else is cowering behind their delusions.

If using the only resource available to you is treason then dub me a pirate because I'd do the exact same thing if I was the only person that could protect every organic life in the galaxy.

And I don't remember Ashley ever apologising to Shepard.

[MegaBadExample]

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

This is what Ashley ACTUALLY said to Tali in ME1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch

I'll just leave this here. Take from it what you will.

The problem is you people always go back to that conversation. It's still not racism, it's common sense. Ash is a realist. Sure, the other races may help out here and there, but the other species do and always will look out for themselves first. Does the Salarian STG share all its information with you? Do they let outsiders poke around everything? No, of course not. Hell, even Wrex won't share certain information with you. The Asari hid a becon from the rest of the galaxy for god knows how long… advancing away by themselves. And I’m sure humanity has got a few dirty secrets to protect itself too.

Is Ashley not allowed to developed like other characters? Like Tali and the Geth? You folks are ALWAYS going to hold that against her. Despite Ashley becoming friends with these “aliens” whom she has come to trust with her life in a fight, and care for them like BLOOD (Tali).

[MegaBadExample]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...
@Applepie

Forced? Nearly every crew member is forced in some way. Are you indifferent to them?

Ashley asks TWO questions on mars, TWO questions after that long with contact. They are not accusations either.

Ashley only shoots Wrex because he was about to blow her Commander's head off. Wrex didn't trust Shepard nor would he stand-down in the situation. So don't blame Ashley for your crappy leadership skills. Ashley did her duty. Shepard even says to Ashley before confronting Wrex: "Be ready... Just in case." That's an order, and she's got to obey.

I have to laugh at these folks comingin and saying "YOU" like you are Commander Shepard. That's the problem; Shepard is your avatar and you take it personal when he gets called out. Anybody who questions him/or sides against him is wrong, right? Every person in this world has the right to judge you - everybody judges. Thats exactly what you're doing to Ashley right now.

Your post in completely inaccurate... it's unreal. How can you be so ignorant about this issue? Oh, yeah - maybe if you actually paid attention to what she was saying. She doesn't hate aliens, nor does she blame them, listen - she blames the Alliance for what happened to her grandfather. Not the aliens. She doesn't trust Wrex and Garrus because they are strangers off the street. Hell, Wrex assualted Shepard before even coming aboard. Go back and play ME1, listen to what she says, and think for a second.

And yes, Shepard is a traitor in ME2. But Ashley still sends a damn apology to him.

1.Forced - Yes, I have never chance to say Anderson NO Get that woman out of that SHIP because I hate her attitude.

2.Ashley was questioning you since ME1, always about something - if Anderson put her in charge than she could do as it fit to her but she was under your command and she always question your decisions.

3.Yes she can shoot Wrex but she could just paralize him and not use whole ammo clip do see his guts ... rly and she did it without order - so she again dismiss her Commanding officer LoL

Yes As Sheppard is my avatar in game I don´t care about countless amout of questioning from side of Ashley, she was saying Aliance first in ME2 - but what did aliance for these colonist ? Well ... nothing ? So if was Cerberus one who investigate Collectors and help Sheppard more than Aliance - which always demmand answers
than she has no right to doubt about Sheppard.

Ashley was always looking on aliens with distance, it was why I don´t like her but in ME3 we are all friends ... it´s sick, and after all events on Citadel she will return to dock like just nothing happened O.o
Yes she doesn´t believe to strangers from street than why should Sheppard believe to some unknown soldier which was recruited by someone else? If it was Sheppard choice to take a Ashley on ride - fine but in my scenario it would never happened.  

She once said something that everyone should care for himself - umm well it´s reason why we had 2 world wars - because everyone start care for himself too much. Well it was reason why we had also Krogan rebelion - because they thought only about themself, in ME3  such a quote - What is mine is mine and What is your is yours cannot work O.o or we all be dead...

4. Sheppard cannot be traitor - he/she was dead meat ressurected by prohuman terrorist organization, it could be salarians with STG or asari but it was the Cerberus. Still Shep owe to Cerberus atleast effort which they put to bringing Sheppard back, so hell yes after what he learned about Collectors  and Reapers he need support from Cerberus because if he just run to Aliance and Council - they put him into cutody two years ago and Collectors could finish their human Reaper.... For me were traitors Council and Aliance which don´t give a crap about what happened SR1 and they dig it in archives and lock it somewhere very deep, after what Sheppard was ressurected they start once again acting in rush with blaming Sheppard for treachery and denial...
Cerberus know the true value of Sheppard - still I don´t support the Cerberus but in that time there wasn´t better choice work with them - they gave you resources, crew, ship, life and only what they ask in return to blew Collectors to hell til the end.

1. You hate her attitude the first second you meet her? Well, aren't you a lovely fellow. I bet you have loads of friends.

3. Have you seen Shepard shoot Wrex in ME3? They riddle him with bullets. He is a Krogan with leather skin after all. Not a human.

You sir, are completely incorrect and ignorant in so many ways. I don't even have the time to explain it to you. It's your fault you judge people so harshy within the first second of meeting them. You're one of those: "Shepard's right and never wrong" folks who can't be reasoned with.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 30 mai 2012 - 11:03 .

[Made Nightwing]

1. Forced-I never had the chance to say 'I don't want that quarian', or 'I don't want that asari'. Get over it.

2. Shepard can say 'I keep an open door policy', indicating that he wants feedback. It's the nature of soldiers to ask questions and offer opinions (she never questions tactical orders or firefight commands, just strategy). A soldier who doesn't ask is a soldier that never learns. I f***ed up more than one exercise back in cadets because I didn't ask any damn questions.

3. No. If it's gotten to the point where Wrex is angry enough to kill Shepard, then he needs to be put down. Because if he gets back up, he'll kill everyone. Cerberus are terrorists and mass murderers. Shepard doesn't have the right to request blind loyalty from his minions.

4. Cerberus were firmly opposed to the Alliance and the Council. It was treason to work for them, no matter what way you slice it. And Shepard worked FOR them. He took their money, their resources and he worked to further their goals, even beyond the point where they coincided with his own. That's called being employed.

[Applepie_Svk]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Wth is your problem?

Well just her presence, VS was worthless since ME1 - I was always playing for Soldier or Sentinel and for me was VS always worthless and that not just from game mechanic but also from their story side.
Both are unatractive characters in ME3 it ring a bell when they both have very similiar conversations not mentioned that questioning. I understand that not everyone can be a big friend but they were so .. bad written, even Vega is better than Jacob, Ashley and Kaidan combine together... LOL
I have seen lot of Sci-fi games, films etc etc and never found such a characters which just anger me with their presence, well until Ashley, Jacob and Kaidan 

[Applepie_Svk]

MegaBadExample wrote...

1. You hate her attitude the first second you meet her? Well, aren't you a lovely fellow. I bet you have loads of friends.

3. Have you seen Shepard shoot Wrex in ME3? They riddle him with bullets. He is a Krogan with leather skin after all. Not a human.

You sir, are completely incorrect and ignorant in so many ways. I don't even have the time to explain it to you. It's your fault you judge people so harshy within the first second of meeting them. You're one of those: "Shepard's right and never wrong" folks who can't be reasoned with.

1. Yes I have, it wasn´t about first meeting but about first 10 minutes of conversation...

2. Yes I have, but only on youtube as a paragon player - otherwise if Wrex is alive there is no reason to cheat him with Dalatraz
 
No man I just hate VS - they are useless characters

[MegaBadExample]

Lyrebon wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

And yes, Shepard is a traitor in ME2. But Ashley still sends a damn apology to him.

Traitor? Are you perhaps negating to remember that Shepard was clinically dead for two years and was brought back to life in the middle of a conflict? How does a human mind react to that situation? Shepard finds out the Alliance have turned their backs on her, ignoring the evidence, denying help to the human colonies being attacked by the Collectors, and the only source even willing to admit the real threat, instead of covering it up with lies and dishonesty, is Cerberus.

Call them evil, call them inhumane - they are - but they are the only organisation in the entire galaxy willing to face the real threat while everyone else is cowering behind their delusions.

If using the only resource available to you is treason then dub me a pirate because I'd do the exact same thing if I was the only person that could protect every organic life in the galaxy.

And I don't remember Ashley ever apologising to Shepard.

Ashley sent MY Shepard an apology. Besides she doesn't need to apologise at all. Shepard made his choice to work with terrorists and she made the choice to not  join up with a group of extremists and be labelled as one. Call it FREE WILL.

[Generic Screen Name]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

No man I just hate VS - they are useless characters

A majority of the squadmates can be considered useless(especially in ME2).

[Applepie_Svk]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Ashley sent MY Shepard an apology.

Facepalm ... Sent ... Sent ... sent ... LOL

[Applepie_Svk]

Generic Screen Name wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

No man I just hate VS - they are useless characters

A majority of the squadmates can be considered useless(especially in ME2).

Yep but most of them have very good voiceacting and well written background story ... just compare human ME characters like a Miranda, Jack, Zaed with someone like Jacob and VS

Edit: Well spend time in late night hours thanks for half hour of trolling 

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 30 mai 2012 - 11:24 .

[Lord Goose]

We can't jugde Javik by "modern" standarts of ME Universe, because in his time and culture where was no such idea that other races are not inferior beings.

Wrex doesn't seems to be exactly racist. He just doesn't like salarians... who in turn don't like krogan. He doesn't likes them because they are responsible for genophage, not because they're of different species.

Ashley in turn just didn't have any contact with aliens before. After she gets around them, he would change her opinions. At very least, in my playthrough she even had no qualms about Shepard leaving her for Tali.

[MegaBadExample]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Ashley sent MY Shepard an apology.

Facepalm ... Sent ... Sent ... sent ... LOL

Lol? What do you want her to do about it? Shepard is off sailing around the GALAXY in unknown locations, lightyears away from where she is probably serving. She has not got a clue where Shepard is, or what he's actually doing. All she knows is that you're working for Cerberus.

What did you honestly want? *Poof* (Ashley magically shows up on the Normandy) "I'm sorry Teh almighty Shepard."

Thank god there wasn't much space magic in ME2.

As explained above, Ashley doesn't need to send an apology at all to Shepard. It is what it is.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 30 mai 2012 - 11:36 .

[Lyrebon]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Lyrebon wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

And yes, Shepard is a traitor in ME2. But Ashley still sends a damn apology to him.

Traitor? Are you perhaps negating to remember that Shepard was clinically dead for two years and was brought back to life in the middle of a conflict? How does a human mind react to that situation? Shepard finds out the Alliance have turned their backs on her, ignoring the evidence, denying help to the human colonies being attacked by the Collectors, and the only source even willing to admit the real threat, instead of covering it up with lies and dishonesty, is Cerberus.

Call them evil, call them inhumane - they are - but they are the only organisation in the entire galaxy willing to face the real threat while everyone else is cowering behind their delusions.

If using the only resource available to you is treason then dub me a pirate because I'd do the exact same thing if I was the only person that could protect every organic life in the galaxy.

And I don't remember Ashley ever apologising to Shepard.

Ashley sent MY Shepard an apology. Besides she doesn't need to apologise at all. Shepard made his choice to work with terrorists and she made the choice to not  join up with a group of extremists and be labelled as one. Call it FREE WILL.

She chose to join up with terrorists but considering all other options it was the only sane choice. If she'd gone back to the Alliance they'd have arrested her and tried her for treason only because they're afraid of what they know, at which the Reapers would have won an easy victory because the events of Arrival couldn't have been impeded by Shepard.

The problem with Ashley at this point is not that she's defending her position but that she's being obnoxiously narrow-minded about it. Shepard is being blamed for turning her back on the Alliance but the Alliance has turned it's back on her at every turn. Ash refuses to acknowledge this on account of her elitism. Of course the Alliance can't be bad, her family's served them for as long as she can remember.

I might have actually liked her character had she just disagreed once with what Shepard was doing and, instead of giving Shepard a goddamn lecture on the "evils of her ways", just left. Never once just she appear concerned for Shepard and why she's come back now after two years. She's so self-absorbed she only focuses on her own feelings and uses them to make Shepard feel guilty for something completely out of her hands.

Modifié par Lyrebon, 30 mai 2012 - 11:40 .

[Versidious]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Arturia Pendragon wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

This is what Ashley ACTUALLY said to Tali in ME1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch

I'll just leave this here. Take from it what you will.

But that's the exact dialogue that proves she isn't racist. She's not referring to the aliens as the 'dogs', she's referring to humanity as the dog that the Council might sic on the bear someday.

And, more importantly, she was proven right in ME3. And, even though my Shepard shouted her down over it, she didn't rub it in. Because she's cool like that.

Ashley doesn't hate aliens, but she doesn't trust them, either. In ME, we've only known that there even ARE aliens for thirty years, and our first contact with them at Shanxi was an incident in which they brutally assaulted a colony full of civilians, and attempted to impose their own laws on us. Suspicion is not an unreasonabe position, if you think about it, especially if you've never met any of them before. Like Navigator Presley, she comes to see aliens as being as human as humans, not just bug-eyed monsters who are being friendly for now, once she actually gets to know them. This is a personal journey which Kaidan had already been on - which is why he's got a more liberal attitude about them.

[DPSSOC]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
Why is this important? Because if you weigh Kaiden and Ashley, which one are most people going to like more? The guy who is level headed about things, for the most part when the plot doesn't require him to be stupid, or the unfunny, likely insecure **** who is constantly rubbing in how much she doesn't trust aliens?

 
Could you define constantly?  She brings it up twice in the whole series, and gives a perfectly sensible justification for that distrust.  She's not some paranoid nutjob with tinfoil on her head claiming the aliens are trying to read her thoughts, she's just a soldier who recognizes that no matter what humanity does, or how well we play nice, when it comes down to us or them they will always choose them.

jreezy wrote...

Arturia Pendragon wrote...
I never saw Ashely as a speciesist, just a xenophobe.

She's not even a xenophobe. She has no irrational fear of aliens.

QFT

[Generic Screen Name]

Applepie_Svk wrote...
Yep but most of them have very good voiceacting and well written background story

 
Ashley and Kaidan have both these things, so what's your problem? 

Modifié par Generic Screen Name, 31 mai 2012 - 12:14 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

jreezy wrote...

Generic Screen Name wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

No man I just hate VS - they are useless characters

A majority of the squadmates can be considered useless(especially in ME2).

Indeed. No one besides Mordin has any plot relevance in Mass Effect 2 and he has a small amount of it.

In most Bioware games, no one but the male and female leads ever have any plot significance. Unless we really consider opening a door (Mission Vao) or trying to kill you (Zevran) to be plot relevant. Most characters simply exist for exposition/entertainment purposes.