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So if people hate Ashley because they think she's "racist", then why do they like Wrex and Javik?


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#51
Zardoc

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Lord Jaric wrote...

demin8891 wrote...

Lord Jaric wrote...

Funny that people call her racist even through she doesn't like Terra Firma for their racist and Cerberus for everything they do to aliens.


'Cause you have to be a member of a political group in order to hold racist beliefs, amirite?


I didn't say that. I was pointing out what she had stated. "To bad your party is filled with racist." If that doesn't tell you anything, then I don't know what does.



Technically, that would make Ashley a hypocrite.

Modifié par Zardoc, 24 mars 2012 - 03:47 .


#52
Simpfan

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And also, I think people would be more willing to accept her racism and move on if she had any sort of likable personality traits.

But no. She doesnt. Shes bland and boring.

#53
Oakenshield1

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Javik is 50,000 years out of time, and Wrex's race has been screwed over by the Turians and Salarians. They have an excuse (Wrex isn't even really racist, btw. He gets along with Garrus OK.) Ashley, just hates aliens cuz they're not human and she has trust issues (but yet she idolizes Shep the biggest alien advocate ever). Simply put: because Ash is a *****

#54
ahandsomeshark

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Complistic wrote...

Ashley is painfully realistic. Most hate for her can be reduced to that simple fact.


this. 

#55
Skyblade012

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Lord Jaric wrote...

Funny that people call her racist even through she doesn't like Terra Firma for their racist and Cerberus for everything they do to aliens.

Her human dog annology was meant to point out how people will look out for themselves when the going gets though, and you know what, she was right.


Agreed.

It was the terrible writing given to her in ME2 that caused the hate.

There was absolutely no reason for the "I'm no fan of aliens".  It felt like the authors were using it to explain why she wasn't with Cerberus, but anyone who played through ME1 with her has a clear idea of that anyway, and anyone who didn't wouldn't know the character enough for it to matter.

#56
Mbednar

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Marixus99.9 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

The OP is racist against racist people.

She's a bit xenophobic, but that's about it.


He discriminates .. himself?


Lolling all over the place.

#57
Cosmar

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It's because Wrex and Javik are aliens and Ashley is human.

Humans = automatically worse than aliens, for some reason, with most of the fans.

The fans are racist against their own species. :-p

Modifié par Cosmar, 24 mars 2012 - 03:49 .


#58
GuardianAngel470

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I don't think she's racist, I think she's prejudiced. She has a legitimate reason for distrusting aliens (her family is basically blacklisted) but she doesn't assign blame where it's due (the Alliance blacklister her, not the aliens) so her perception of the situation is clouded by a misguided distrust.

Wrex is different. He has experienced firsthand the effects of another species because of the genophage. His entire life is one of a crippled predator. Strong and fierce but vitually incapable of continuing life normally.

He had to kill his own father because his knowledge that the situation had changed and his integrity and forethought drove him to oppose his father. It was a situation that simply wouldn't have existed if not for the turian's use of the genophage.

His rationale is more justifiable, but he never really causes a problem because of it.

Plus he's funny.
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#59
Mathias

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JeanLuc Awesome wrote...

I never understood all the complaints some people have about Ashley, everything they point out actually just makes her character that much more rich.

You may not like the type of person she is, but that's your problem.


I do think she's the most misunderstood character of the series. If her character was fleshed out more in ME3, then maybe some people would've come to better terms with her. Oh well, blame the writers. I like Ashley a lot because of how realistic she is. I believe she said it best in ME3 "I'm a real person Shepard. Flaws and all."
 
I think that's why some people don't like her, but at the same time that's what makes Ashley great to others.

#60
ashwind

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Javik is not a racist, he is an imperialist. "The strong rule the weak, that is the natural order of things. If they do not like it, they can always fight back. If they win, they get to be the boss. Many tried, non succeed."

Wrex, well, he does not like Turians and Salarians. That is a personal grudge against those civilization who wrong his people.

If Turians and Salarians sterilize humans, Ashley will have valid reasons to hate them. Ashley dislike all aliens and she is very paranoid. If she only hated Turians, I could understand but nope. She hates em all and is constantly whining... about... everything.

Modifié par ashwind, 24 mars 2012 - 03:50 .


#61
ahandsomeshark

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JeanLuc Awesome wrote...

I never understood all the complaints some people have about Ashley, everything they point out actually just makes her character that much more rich.

You may not like the type of person she is, but that's your problem.


yeah I don't like the type of person she is but at the same time it's why I love her character, because she's someone I could actually meet on a day to day basis. 

#62
JeanLuc Awesome

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Simpfan wrote...

And also, I think people would be more willing to accept her racism and move on if she had any sort of likable personality traits.

But no. She doesnt. Shes bland and boring.


Not everybody in real-life has a lot of likeable personality traits (which is subjective btw).
So why does everyone in the virtual world have to?

Both positive and negative traits a like add more depth to a character and make them more interesting.

In my opinion if any squad mate is bland and boring, I'd have to say Miranda.

Modifié par JeanLuc Awesome, 24 mars 2012 - 03:54 .


#63
HBC Dresden

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ashwind wrote...

Javik is not a racist, he is an imperialist. "The strong rule the weak, that is the natural order of things. If they do not like it, they can always fight back. If they win, they get to be the boss. Many tried, non succeed."

Wrex, well, he does not like Turians and Salarians. That is a personal grudge against those civilization who wrong his people.

If Turians and Salarians sterilize humans, Ashley will have valid reasons to hate them. Ashley dislike all aliens and she is very paranoid. If she only hated Turians, I could understand but nope. She hates em all and is constantly whining... about... everything.


See, re-contextualizing like I said in my earlier post :) Good point about Javik being an imperialist. He is also a believer in Social Darwinism...

#64
Simpfan

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JeanLuc Awesome wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

And also, I think people would be more willing to accept her racism and move on if she had any sort of likable personality traits.

But no. She doesnt. Shes bland and boring.


Not everybody in real-life has a lot of likeable personality traits (which is subjective btw).
So why does everyone in the virtual world have to?

Both positive and negative traits a like add more depth to a character and make them more interesting.


Because if you want to be emotionally invested in a character, in a video game thats as much about characters as it is about action and story, there needs to be something for a player to latch onto.
Ashley has nothing.

#65
shadey

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all ashley's doubts about aliens are all proved true in mass effect 3 when earth is the first council world hit and all the other alien races refuse to give help because they want to look after their own first.

#66
Mathias

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Simpfan wrote...

JeanLuc Awesome wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

And also, I think people would be more willing to accept her racism and move on if she had any sort of likable personality traits.

But no. She doesnt. Shes bland and boring.


Not everybody in real-life has a lot of likeable personality traits (which is subjective btw).
So why does everyone in the virtual world have to?

Both positive and negative traits a like add more depth to a character and make them more interesting.


Because if you want to be emotionally invested in a character, in a video game thats as much about characters as it is about action and story, there needs to be something for a player to latch onto.
Ashley has nothing.


I don't think she has nothing. She's got plenty to offer my Shepard, enough to make him happy. It's all a matter of taste.

#67
Aimi

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ashwind wrote...

Javik is not a racist, he is an imperialist. "The strong rule the weak, that is the natural order of things. If they do not like it, they can always fight back. If they win, they get to be the boss. Many tried, non succeed."

News flash: someone can be imperialist and racist at the same time. Just look at Europe, America, and Japan at the beginning of the twentieth century.

Javik's comment isn't imperialist per se, it's social Darwinistic, but conveniently, social Darwinism was also very popular among the imperialist-and-also-racist types who ran the show back around 1900.

#68
Simpfan

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Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

JeanLuc Awesome wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

And also, I think people would be more willing to accept her racism and move on if she had any sort of likable personality traits.

But no. She doesnt. Shes bland and boring.


Not everybody in real-life has a lot of likeable personality traits (which is subjective btw).
So why does everyone in the virtual world have to?

Both positive and negative traits a like add more depth to a character and make them more interesting.


Because if you want to be emotionally invested in a character, in a video game thats as much about characters as it is about action and story, there needs to be something for a player to latch onto.
Ashley has nothing.


I don't think she has nothing. She's got plenty to offer my Shepard, enough to make him happy. It's all a matter of taste.


If you like jesus, xenophobia, whining about people hating her family, and sex, then I guess

#69
OverdrivenI

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 O come on...in the period ME is set in humanity hasn't had contact with Aliens for very long at all. I think Ashley's feelings are something a majority of humanity would have been feeling...hell if we were all in the situation I know we would likely be the same. I think her 'racism' is actually quite appropriately placed and makes sense.

As for Wrex...well that's the kind of racism we see every day. One race ****s another over, and 300 years later the ****ed over race is still pissed off and angry about it. Again it makes sense.

I personally like Ashley...the main reason I went off her after ME1 was because she got so ****y when Shep joins Cerberus.

#70
JeanLuc Awesome

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Simpfan wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

JeanLuc Awesome wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

And also, I think people would be more willing to accept her racism and move on if she had any sort of likable personality traits.

But no. She doesnt. Shes bland and boring.


Not everybody in real-life has a lot of likeable personality traits (which is subjective btw).
So why does everyone in the virtual world have to?

Both positive and negative traits a like add more depth to a character and make them more interesting.


Because if you want to be emotionally invested in a character, in a video game thats as much about characters as it is about action and story, there needs to be something for a player to latch onto.
Ashley has nothing.


I don't think she has nothing. She's got plenty to offer my Shepard, enough to make him happy. It's all a matter of taste.


If you like jesus, xenophobia, whining about people hating her family, and sex, then I guess


I recall her saying she believed in God, but not which God.

#71
Zardoc

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shadey wrote...

all ashley's doubts about aliens are all proved true in mass effect 3 when earth is the first council world hit and all the other alien races refuse to give help because they want to look after their own first.







Not like thats natural or something. She's still racist in ME1. Maybe she changed in ME3, didn't really pay much attention.

#72
yummysoap

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Ash seemed to have grown up a bit in 3, but her second-guessing of everything Shepard did was annoying. Second playthrough I'll be renegading-responsing the **** out of her misconduct. Still, she was better than she was compared to "look at how sassy I am" Mass Effect 1 Ashley.

Had humans been sterilized in a joint-effort between two other races I'd say Ashley would be perfectly justified in hating turians and salarians. Had we woken up after 50 000 years to find out that apes are now ruling galactic civilization she'd be justified in her feeling superior. Wrex and Javik both have pretty good reasons for their mistrust of aliens; all Ashley has is a stupid dog/bear metaphor.

It's not really her xenophobia I dislike, anyway - I always try to roleplay my Shep as a little xenophobic at the start of ME1 (being an Alliance marine there'd probably be some bad blood within the organization regarding the turians and he probably didn't get much exposure with the other races until he became a Spectre). It's her annoying backtalking, her totally forced tough-girl attitude "knocking the geth on their synthetic asses is how I deal with migraines oohhhh yeah" and her extraordinary sexual jealousy regarding Liara. Seriously, she couldn't even abide Liara telling Shepard he was strong-willed without feeling the need to blurt out. Everything about her suggests she's lived her entire life aspiring to be that tomboy chick from Aliens and never quite getting there. Her personality-type is just not one that I like, and she's lucky my Commander Shepard is pretty relaxed about speaking out of place or otherwise she wouldn't have lasted past the first visit to the citadel.

But, you know, she matured and stuff as the series progressed, so that's nice.

EDIT: I should mention that I'm not particularly enamored by Javik and his darwinism, but he at least has some positive character traits that I enjoy. I can't say the same about Ashley.

Modifié par yummysoap, 24 mars 2012 - 04:05 .


#73
humes spork

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ashwind wrote...

Javik is not a racist, he is an imperialist. "The strong rule the weak, that is the natural order of things. If they do not like it, they can always fight back. If they win, they get to be the boss. Many tried, non succeed."


This (despite your conflation of social Darwinism and imperialism), and to be insulted by Javik's commentary is to be ashamed of one's own origins and to display one's own arrogance. Case in point, Liara is the most angered by Javik's commentary. Her presumption the protheans were "just like" asari was species-centric, short sighted and ignorant, especially in the revealed context the protheans more or less built asari culture and the asari whitewashed the entire thing to pass themselves off as culturally and socially superior to other races. Pointing that out, especially by a member of a dead society that thanks to its own failures did little overall against the Reaper threat save marginally delay the inevitable, to members of living societies that are actually giving the Reapers a good fight, is a toothless gesture designed to remind others that arrogance leads to weakness.

Talk to Javik, and that's the first thing he (tacitly) points out, that arrogance and complacency are weaknesses. It's the same thing Javik does when he continually tells Shepard what he and his people would do in a given situation, then turns around to tell Shepard to not concern herself with the thoughts and suggestions of others and to do what she thinks is the best course of action. He's a foil, a serial contrarian, and a devil's advocate, and he does it to ensure other perspectives are considered and Shepard's and the squad's own actions are tested in the crucible of introspection before carried out; to put it another way, he's the guy that puts the mirror in front of everyone's face so they take a good, hard look at themselves.

Asari began as unevolved primitives? Well, no sh*t Sherlock. Everybody did, even the protheans did not magically poof into an advanced galactic civilization straight ouf the ether, and neither did asari. You'd think that as an archeologist, Liara would be the first to acknowledge this fact, but she's not. She ardently defends asari culture and preconceptions to the bitter end, despite the fact asari origins have little to do with the reality they're culturally and socially running the show. To be in denial about asari origins just shows how much of a hypocrite Liara is when it comes to cultural perceptions.

Liara has a very strong distaste for Javik not because of his social views nor that of his society. Liara dislikes Javik because he forces her to take a good, hard look at herself and her culture, and she doesn't like what she sees.

Modifié par humes spork, 24 mars 2012 - 04:05 .


#74
OverdrivenI

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Complistic wrote...

Ashley is painfully realistic. Most hate for her can be reduced to that simple fact.


This is actually the truest statement on this thread I think.

She comes across as more 'real' than any of the other characters.

Modifié par OverdrivenI, 24 mars 2012 - 04:05 .


#75
Billabong2011

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To be fair I don't hate Ashley because she's a racist. I hate her because she would sacrifice her dog to save herself from a bear. What a bi***. I would gladly save my guinea pig before running from a bear.

Modifié par Billabong2011, 24 mars 2012 - 04:05 .