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[yummysoap]

yahtzo wrote...

OverdrivenI wrote...

 

Complistic wrote...

Ashley is painfully realistic. Most hate for her can be reduced to that simple fact.

This is actually the truest statement on this thread I think.

She's comes across as more 'real' than any of the other characters.

Seriously.  Everyone else is all "LA LA LA I love aliens LA LA LA" when Ashley just seems so much more real.
And despite her dislike for aliens she is still willing to work with them, be in a squad with them and have their back on the battlefield.

I also have a feeling her belief in God made some people dislike her whether they want to admit it or not.

Yes, and I also hate Jacob because he's black. Nevermind the fact that he's a boring character with no real interesting backstory, no sense of humour, and no redeeming character traits.

I'm sorry dude but I choose not to like I'm So Sassy Look At My Sass because she's said some really dumb stuff, because she talks back to a superior officer, and because she's so sexually jealous that she'll jump down Liara's throat for daring to call someone who's managed to withstand a Prothean mind-probing "strong-willed". I'd dislike any character with the same traits whether they were male or female, black or white, atheist or religious. Let's not pretend her single and completely insignificant God line has anything to do with the fact that everything else about her is (to me) unlikeable.

[OverdrivenI]

Menalaos1971 wrote...
One difference.  The Genophage still exists, and those that created it still ensure its continued effectiveness.  Both the Salarians and the Turians.  So, using your example, its like the Japanese today are still taking comfort women and occasionally wiping out a whole city or two decades after the war...  Yes, Krogan hate is still justified.

Colonialism still reverbrates through most societies today and you can still see the effects of it in every aspect of the developing world. Whilst colonialism isn't still ongoing, the issues that it brought still affect people constantly. A prime example being the partition of India into India/Pakistan. It still doesn't justify racism however.

[shadey]

Zardoc wrote...



Only none of the people you recruit are civilians, except for Liara. You had a grand total of 4 aliens aboard, all specialists you needed. 

none of them were alliance military or had any military clearance


so yes they were civlians.

[FellishBeast]

I've never hard a problem with Ashley. She hasn't changed since ME1.

[Skyblade012]

Zardoc wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

OverdrivenI wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

Really, I can only remember one time she was blatantly racist, and that was due to the horribly cheap writing on Horizon.

In ME1 as soon as you get Aliens on the Normandy she starts getting angsty about how they can't be trusted and it's an Alliance ship blah blah.

Personally I think she's a realistic representation of how most of humanity would act in such a situation.

Not racist behaviour.  She wasn't judging them that way because of their race, but rather due to her experience with people and societies in general, and how any would react.  Solid sociology is not racism.  She didn't hate aliens, didn't even dislike them (Pressly was worse on that score).  She just knew that, if things got out of hand, a group would abandon outsiders before harming their own.  And you see it over and over again throughout the series.  It doesn't matter if its an organization, a species, an alliance, or even just a crew.  You protect your own before you protect outsiders.

And she was 100% accurate.

What about her comment on how she can't tell the difference between the aliens and the animals on the Citadel? Is that not racist? I believe it is.

Also, like I said, her political views are just one reason why I don't like her. Her calling me a traitor on Horizon and her constant complaining about my past with Cerberus in 3 are the main reasons I really can't stand her anymore.

Good point on the Citadel line, had honestly forgotten that one.

Hell, I still can't get over my Cerberus involvement.  The forced cooperation was the worst thing in the series.  Until our forced cooperation with the Reapers at the end.

[Menalaos1971]

OverdrivenI wrote...

Menalaos1971 wrote...
One difference.  The Genophage still exists, and those that created it still ensure its continued effectiveness.  Both the Salarians and the Turians.  So, using your example, its like the Japanese today are still taking comfort women and occasionally wiping out a whole city or two decades after the war...  Yes, Krogan hate is still justified.

Colonialism still reverbrates through most societies today and you can still see the effects of it in every aspect of the developing world. Whilst colonialism isn't still ongoing, the issues that it brought still affect people constantly. A prime example being the partition of India into India/Pakistan. It still doesn't justify racism however.

But British troops aren't still showing up and stopping peace talks between India and Pakistan, or intentionally causing fresh border disputes to encourage continued fighting.  The Salarians and Turians are actively ensuring the Genophage remains effective, thus dooming the entire Krogan race.  Hate is absolutely justifiable.

Of course, if you're one of those whiny, hippy, can't we all just get along types, just say so and I'll move on.

[Mathias]

Simpfan wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

JeanLuc Awesome wrote...

Simpfan wrote...

And also, I think people would be more willing to accept her racism and move on if she had any sort of likable personality traits.

But no. She doesnt. Shes bland and boring.

Not everybody in real-life has a lot of likeable personality traits (which is subjective btw).
So why does everyone in the virtual world have to?

Both positive and negative traits a like add more depth to a character and make them more interesting.

Because if you want to be emotionally invested in a character, in a video game thats as much about characters as it is about action and story, there needs to be something for a player to latch onto.
Ashley has nothing.

I don't think she has nothing. She's got plenty to offer my Shepard, enough to make him happy. It's all a matter of taste.

If you like jesus, xenophobia, whining about people hating her family, and sex, then I guess

I'm not religious, i'm not racist and neither is she. I enjoy listening to her talk about her family. A woman who values family is a good thing. I like her fascination with poetry and that she can finish a whole bottle of hard liquor. I respect the fact that she's an individual thinker and doesn't hold back her feelings on some issues, and that if she has a problem then she'll tell me to my face.

What's with you saying "If you like sex, then I guess."

Really?

[humes spork]

shadey wrote...

none of them were alliance military or had any military clearance

so yes they were civlians.

Both Ashley and Kaiden are Alliance military. Garrus is C-Sec, which is a paramilitary organization. Tali is a quarian, which meant she at the very least can be considered militia (remember, the migrant fleet is still under martial law). Only Wrex and Liara are technically civilians, but the former is a mercenary which leaves his status rather shaky.

So, your statement is valid only from an Alliance perspective, and even then falls into the unsound category considering that as a Citadel race humanity officially recognizes the legitimacy and jurisdiction of C-Sec.

[darthnick427]

demin8891 wrote...

'Case Wrex and Javik have a hilarious, dry sense of humor. That's their "Saving the cat" trait. They're douchebags, yeah, but there's an endearing quality that makes you like them nonetheless.

Ashley is just a ****.

Yep. Plus Wrex is only racist when others are racist to him. He's not racist against Garrus at all in ME3 and he respects Mordin right after he talks to him in the medbay

[humes spork]

Aiyie wrote...

maybe.  that could be one of the reasons i didn't mind Ashley either then.

The interesting thing about Kaiden's outlook versus Ashley's is that Kaiden's is decidedly bleaker. He just doesn't happen to judge by species.

[Rogue Unit]

Ashley is not a realist, that's some BS her fans came up with the justify/explain her flat out racism. She'd fit right in at Cerberus.

[Blc949]

I thought it was somewhat telling in the dialogue about anyone letting their dog deal with the bear, she said its just "human nature". Maybe I misinterpreted, but I thought they were talking about any species would do that, not just humans should do that. The "human nature" was basically "organic nature" in this case.

And to comment on the above posters comment, does that mean my Grandpa belongs right in the kkk as he has an issue with foreigners?  I've never agreed with the man, but he's been to war and almost died.  Being a little battle damaged doesn't mean the man is "right at home with the kkk".  That's fairly offensive.

Modifié par Blc949, 24 mars 2012 - 04:39 .

[IanPolaris]

humes spork wrote...

shadey wrote...

none of them were alliance military or had any military clearance

so yes they were civlians.

Both Ashley and Kaiden are Alliance military. Garrus is C-Sec, which is a paramilitary organization. Tali is a quarian, which meant she at the very least can be considered militia (remember, the migrant fleet is still under martial law). Only Wrex and Liara are technically civilians, but the former is a mercenary which leaves his status rather shaky.

So, your statement is valid only from an Alliance perspective, and even then falls into the unsound category considering that as a Citadel race humanity officially recognizes the legitimacy and jurisdiction of C-Sec.

Actually the Normandy was a joint Turian-Human warship built as a guesture of goodwill for the Alliance with the help of the Turian Hiearchy.  Garrus is not only a (very recently ex) C-Sec officer (and from what I can gather he was at least the earth equiv of a police dective-lieutenant before he joined Shep), but is also a member of the Turian Ready Reserves as an Officer.  I am almost certain that the Alliance brass would consider him at the very least an LNO (Liason officer).  Heck even Udina makes that point to a renegade Shep that doesn't trust the idea of going for a Turian for help.  Then there is Tali.  Tali is very modest but given that her father is the senior admiral of the Quarian Flotilla and given (if pushed) that Ambassador Udina ORDERS you to take her along should tell you that the Alliance considers her a VIP.  Liara may technically be a civilian (and even the council was concerned about the security arrangements), but she is a Martriache's daughter and that also makes her a VIP in the Asari republics.    The only real security risk would be Wrex I think.

The point is that none of these aliens are average civilian nobodies and all have mission essential expertise.  So I would say giving them more or less the run of the ship is at least plausible (if forced).

-Polaris

[Mathias]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Ashley is not a realist, that's some BS her fans came up with the justify/explain her flat out racism. She'd fit right in at Cerberus.

Despite the fact she hates Cerberus and has trust issues with her old Commander because he had a temporary alliance with them.

[somewherenoplace]

I don't hate Ashley because she was struggling to adapt to a world in which we aren't the only species in the galaxy and a family that obviously believes in what humanity has to offer. I don't hate Ashley for her belief in god and how it may potentially skew her view of things not traditional or different than herself. I was indifferent towards her because she was incredibly boring as a character to me and honestly didn't provide anything interesting combat wise that made me want to bring her on missions with me. Especially when Wrex had biotic abilities and equal strength because he's a Krogan. Kaiden on the other hand was easier for me to get along with because we were both biotics.

Wrex was interesting, useful, and actually had some dark secrets. Yeah, he's a little temperamental towards Salarians and Turians, but these were people that essentially circumcised most of their female population. I'd be a little upset if all of my friends and I couldn't bring a child into this world. That's a serious lack of joy.

Javik just got out of stasis from 50,000 years ago. He's the last of his kind and hasn't seen a day without war in his life. Honestly I gave the dude a break. Plus, he does warm up in his own way at the end. He's principled and it may be "wrong" by our standards, but I'm going to live with it if it means I get a Prothean with great biotic abilities and potential insights into stopping the reaper invasion.

just my perspective.

[Rogue Unit]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Ashley is not a realist, that's some BS her fans came up with the justify/explain her flat out racism. She'd fit right in at Cerberus.

Despite the fact she hates Cerberus and has trust issues with her old Commander because he had a temporary alliance with them.

She hates Cerberus because of her blind loyalty to the Alliance, not because they're a group of racists.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 24 mars 2012 - 04:40 .

[shadey]

humes spork wrote...

Both Ashley and Kaiden are Alliance military. Garrus is C-Sec, which is a paramilitary organization. Tali is a quarian, which meant she at the very least can be considered militia (remember, the migrant fleet is still under martial law). Only Wrex and Liara are technically civilians, but the former is a mercenary which leaves his status rather shaky.

So, your statement is valid only from an Alliance perspective, and even then falls into the unsound category considering that as a Citadel race humanity officially recognizes the legitimacy and jurisdiction of C-Sec.

just because garrus is c-sec doesn't give clearance to work on an alliance ship, they are different groups.

that's like saying someone from blackwater, which is a private security firm has clearance to enter any US military base. 

they don't

I'm obviously looking at this from an alliance perspective which was the whole point that ashley had of non-alliance military aliens that did not have military clearance wandering around a ship.

[brian_breed]

What about Shepard? Got it out for the Hanar.

"You big stupid jellyfish!"

[Mathias]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Ashley is not a realist, that's some BS her fans came up with the justify/explain her flat out racism. She'd fit right in at Cerberus.

Despite the fact she hates Cerberus and has trust issues with her old Commander because he had a temporary alliance with them.

She hates Cerberus because of blind loyalty to the Alliance, not because they're a group of racists.

I think you're just pulling things our your rear. Cerberus are more than just racists. Their methods are destructive and sadistic.

[HumingTurtle]

Cause ashley is a **** and wrex and javik arent end of story

[GasmaskAvenger]

Javik and Wrex are both cool characters with their own redeeming qualities (Wrex becoming bros for life with you especially if you cured the genophage) and despite Javik's ancient ways, he also grows quite a bit in the short amount of time you knew him.

Ashley on the other hand really feels like a Cerberus sleeper agent that's working undercover to destroy Shepard and Co. from the inside out when the opportunity rises (if you kept her alive that is)

[Flashflame58]

For the millionth time, Ashley is not racist.

[Rogue Unit]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Ashley is not a realist, that's some BS her fans came up with the justify/explain her flat out racism. She'd fit right in at Cerberus.

Despite the fact she hates Cerberus and has trust issues with her old Commander because he had a temporary alliance with them.

She hates Cerberus because of blind loyalty to the Alliance, not because they're a group of racists.

I think you're just pulling things our your rear. Cerberus are more than just racists. Their methods are destructive and sadistic.

Exactly. She dislike their methods/work (killing Alliance admirals) Not once do I remember her mentioning shes dislikes Cerberus because of the often racist views. Like I said, she'd fit right in at Cerberus.

[dgumb]

shadey wrote...

humes spork wrote...

Both Ashley and Kaiden are Alliance military. Garrus is C-Sec, which is a paramilitary organization. Tali is a quarian, which meant she at the very least can be considered militia (remember, the migrant fleet is still under martial law). Only Wrex and Liara are technically civilians, but the former is a mercenary which leaves his status rather shaky.

So, your statement is valid only from an Alliance perspective, and even then falls into the unsound category considering that as a Citadel race humanity officially recognizes the legitimacy and jurisdiction of C-Sec.

just because garrus is c-sec doesn't give clearance to work on an alliance ship, they are different groups.

that's like saying someone from blackwater, which is a private security firm has clearance to enter any US military base. 

they don't

I'm obviously looking at this from an alliance perspective which was the whole point that ashley had of non-alliance military aliens that did not have military clearance wandering around a ship.

I don't think Blackwater is a good analogy in this case. It'd be more like an officer of the U.N. or a military officer from a NATO ally.