771 réponses à ce sujet

[Haristo]

Javik is a 50 000 years old ****... but I may understand why... I mean, what would you do if you wake up and there's giant talking cats and bunnies talking to you and thinking you're some kind of ancient god with the answers to everything... and you remember cats as a funny subject on the Internet and Bunnies as food (Salarian raw liver IS a prothean delicassy after all !)

I mean... how would you react...

[Saremei]

omgBAMF wrote...

I've had a distaste for Ashley since ME1 when when she started talking about being uber-religious. Her xenophobia doesn't help matters either. Her entire distrusting nature is also a knock against her. I mean, how many ****ing times do I have to tell you to trust me?

Ashley never said she was "uber-religious". All she said is that she believed in god. I found that to be one of her better traits, and one that made her easily the most believably real character of ME1.

[Abreu Road]

Look at Wrex. Look really, really closely.

How could you not love him?

[Mox Ruuga]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

So what you people are saying is that it's ok to be a racist as long as you're funny about it?

And aren't a b****... ie. a female. Typical fanboys double standards.

Its like Kaidan was being bashed for being a whiner back in ME1, while the actual biggest whiner in the game, Garrus, was given a free pass.

[sistersafetypin]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah i'm opening up this can of worms again. Now before you start making up excuses for Wrex and Javik, lemme ask you this. If I hate the British as a whole, for the crap that went down 300 years ago, would you make up excuses for me? There really is no real excuse out there for hating an entire race based on the actions of a few. Ashley had trust issues with other aliens but eventually grew out of it and trusted them as allies.

But then you've got Wrex who just openly insult Salarians and Turians in front of them, even go as far as joking about eating them. Then you've got Javik who just straight out trolls people. Not to mention there are other characters in the game that have made statements about trusting other aliens and what not. So why is Ashley the exception? Because she's human?

I don't know why it took me this long to notice this.

The difference is... The british didn't create a disease that makes it almost impossible to have children. I'm also uncertain why Javik is included at all. Ashley hated ALL aliens in the first game. [And i saved her, because she was closed minded and through constant conversation she lost some of that]

[Mox Ruuga]

Saremei wrote...


Ashley never said she was "uber-religious". All she said is that she believed in god. I found that to be one of her better traits, and one that made her easily the most believably real character of ME1.

Indeed. Yet she's often described as a "racist religious fanatic" or a "zealot".

[ReclaimedHavoc]

I didn't read many posts, and I just want to share my opinion. Ashley is a good character, one of my favorites, and she isn't racist. Not in the slightest. Anyone who dismisses her as that is just ignorant. Shes mistrusting. Her whole family has been screwed because of aliens, that really doesn't help the outlook. She personally believes in Humanity standing strong, on it's own. And you can't even deny she brings up valid points. Aliens mistrust us, and like she said, they'd certainly be looking out for their species instead of others. She just wants humanity to be self reliant. She hated the racist in Terra Firma, and she hates Cerberus because they're too extreme, that's plenty of proof. Even then, in the first game, you can convince her to become more open, and grow. She flat out says that she trusts the council now. Even in Mass Effect 3, she was willing to lay down her life for the council. Also, in the first game, she marvels at alien accomplishments, like the Destiny Accension. I doubt she'd be so stunned if she hated aliens so much.

Ignorant people.

Modifié par ReclaimedHavoc, 24 mars 2012 - 04:56 .

[PsydonZero]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah i'm opening up this can of worms again. Now before you start making up excuses for Wrex and Javik, lemme ask you this. If I hate the British as a whole, for the crap that went down 300 years ago, would you make up excuses for me? There really is no real excuse out there for hating an entire race based on the actions of a few. Ashley had trust issues with other aliens but eventually grew out of it and trusted them as allies.

But then you've got Wrex who just openly insult Salarians and Turians in front of them, even go as far as joking about eating them. Then you've got Javik who just straight out trolls people. Not to mention there are other characters in the game that have made statements about trusting other aliens and what not. So why is Ashley the exception? Because she's human?

I don't know why it took me this long to notice this.

Javik: You understand pretty much right from the start that he's a product of his culture. The Prothean empire was imperialistic and ruthless to the extreme, viewing all other species as little more than tools to be used when the time was right. That Javik spent his entire life doing one thing also establishes that he never had the time to broaden his horizons. You like Javik because he's interesting and you forgive him being racist because you understand why he is.

Wrex: He's too awesome to hate and you know he's only joking so it's all good. Also, he's a krogan: he has the right.

Ashley: There's nothing about what the fans think here; she is openly and unapologetically racist, especially in ME1. Not because humanity is (they're not), and not for the sake of a joke: she just doesn't like non-humans for no reason. Not that there's any reason she shouldn't have this particular character flaw and it could be overlooked were she an interesting character. Unfortunately, Bioware has a habit of writing REALLY uninteresting humans for their games' primary/initial companions. See Carth/Jacob/Vega/Carver for further examples, see Kaidan/Alistair/Bastila/Leliana/Miranda/Bethany for exceptions.

There isn't a whole lot to Ashley. The most interesting and potentially deep aspect of her character, her love of poetry, is hardly explored and the rest is...well, the Warrior in Warrior Poet. Her negative traits, her racism among them, thus become more prominent.

[Mox Ruuga]

sistersafetypin wrote...

The difference is... The british didn't create a disease that makes it almost impossible to have children. I'm also uncertain why Javik is included at all. Ashley hated ALL aliens in the first game. [And i saved her, because she was closed minded and through constant conversation she lost some of that]

So what was the line of dialogue from Ashley that showed her "hate" of aliens? As opposed to distrust and inexperience in working with them?

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

The difference is... The british didn't create a disease that makes it almost impossible to have children. I'm also uncertain why Javik is included at all. Ashley hated ALL aliens in the first game. [And i saved her, because she was closed minded and through constant conversation she lost some of that]

So what was the line of dialogue from Ashley that showed her "hate" of aliens? As opposed to distrust and inexperience in working with them?

Thank you. not once, NOT ONCE, did she ever say she hated aliens. Ever. Trust issues, people. She even gets over that, but I guess you people dismissed her right away.

[Fl1xx]

humes spork wrote...

Fl1xx wrote...

When Javik was living pre-wake up, all of the current advanced species were bottom-dwellers. I assume that it's going to take longer than a few days (Weeks? Months? How long does the game span?) to get past those memories.

The impression I got is Javik acclimated rather quickly, and he just says the stuff he does to force the current cycles' species to take a good, hard look at themselves. He's a gadfly, not a racist per se.

To be fair, I didn't talk to him again after the Citadel chat.

[Mathias]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Ashley is not a realist, that's some BS her fans came up with the justify/explain her flat out racism. She'd fit right in at Cerberus.

Despite the fact she hates Cerberus and has trust issues with her old Commander because he had a temporary alliance with them.

She hates Cerberus because of blind loyalty to the Alliance, not because they're a group of racists.

I think you're just pulling things our your rear. Cerberus are more than just racists. Their methods are destructive and sadistic.

Exactly. She dislike their methods/work (killing Alliance admirals) Not once do I remember her mentioning shes dislikes Cerberus because of the often racist views. Like I said, she'd fit right in at Cerberus.

I don't think you understand Cerberus. Their goal is human dominance in the galaxy. If Ashley says she doesn't like Cerberus, then she doesn't like Cerberus. At no point has she ever shown interest in human dominance. Caution towards other species does not equal "We should totally rule over them." These are baseless accusations you're making. End of story.

[Rogue Unit]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

I didn't read many posts, and I just want to share my opinion. Ashley is a good character, one of my favorites, and she isn't racist. Not in the slightest. Anyone who dismisses her as that is just ignorant. Shes mistrusting. Her whole family has been screwed because of HUMANS, that really doesn't help the outlook. She personally believes in Humanity standing strong, on it's own. And you can't even deny she brings up valid points. Aliens mistrust us, and like she said, they'd certainly be looking out for their species instead of others. She just wants humanity to be self reliant. She hated the racist in Terra Firma, and she hates Cerberus because their too extreme, that's plenty of proof. Even then, in the first game, you can convince her to become more open, and grow. She flat out says that she trusts the council now. Even in Mass Effect 3, she was willing to lay down her life for the council. Also, in the first game, she marvels at alien accomplishments, like the Destiny Accension.

Ignorant people.

The Alliance screwed her family. Now she's butthurt that the turians put a three-toed foot her grandpa's ass, so she vents her anger by being a racist ****.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 24 mars 2012 - 04:58 .

[Flashflame58]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

I didn't read many posts, and I just want to share my opinion. Ashley is a good character, one of my favorites, and she isn't racist. Not in the slightest. Anyone who dismisses her as that is just ignorant. Shes mistrusting. Her whole family has been screwed because of aliens, that really doesn't help the outlook. She personally believes in Humanity standing strong, on it's own. And you can't even deny she brings up valid points. Aliens mistrust us, and like she said, they'd certainly be looking out for their species instead of others. She just wants humanity to be self reliant. She hated the racist in Terra Firma, and she hates Cerberus because they're too extreme, that's plenty of proof. Even then, in the first game, you can convince her to become more open, and grow. She flat out says that she trusts the council now. Even in Mass Effect 3, she was willing to lay down her life for the council. Also, in the first game, she marvels at alien accomplishments, like the Destiny Accension. I doubt she'd be so stunned if she hated aliens so much.

Ignorant people.

[ReclaimedHavoc]

Rogue Unit wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

I didn't read many posts, and I just want to share my opinion. Ashley is a good character, one of my favorites, and she isn't racist. Not in the slightest. Anyone who dismisses her as that is just ignorant. Shes mistrusting. Her whole family has been screwed because of HUMANS, that really doesn't help the outlook. She personally believes in Humanity standing strong, on it's own. And you can't even deny she brings up valid points. Aliens mistrust us, and like she said, they'd certainly be looking out for their species instead of others. She just wants humanity to be self reliant. She hated the racist in Terra Firma, and she hates Cerberus because their too extreme, that's plenty of proof. Even then, in the first game, you can convince her to become more open, and grow. She flat out says that she trusts the council now. Even in Mass Effect 3, she was willing to lay down her life for the council. Also, in the first game, she marvels at alien accomplishments, like the Destiny Accension.

Ignorant people.

The Alliance screwed her family. Now she's butthurt that the turians put a three-toed foot her grandpa's ass, so she vents her anger by being a racist ****.

Did you even bother to read the rest of the post?

And sure, it's perfectly ok when Krogan's are pissed at Turians and Salarians, but if Ashley's grandfather is bombed by turians, lets label her a racist.

[sistersafetypin]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

sistersafetypin wrote...

The difference is... The british didn't create a disease that makes it almost impossible to have children. I'm also uncertain why Javik is included at all. Ashley hated ALL aliens in the first game. [And i saved her, because she was closed minded and through constant conversation she lost some of that]

So what was the line of dialogue from Ashley that showed her "hate" of aliens? As opposed to distrust and inexperience in working with them?

I haven't played ME1 in a while and I honestly don't care. At the end of the day, as I said I saved her. But her character as she is written in my opinion is simply shallow. Not her personality, but her character. It's to hard to either like or dislike her. Where as Kaiden annoyed me, so he died.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Haristo wrote...

Javik is a 50 000 years old ****... but I may understand why... I mean, what would you do if you wake up and there's giant talking cats and bunnies talking to you and thinking you're some kind of ancient god with the answers to everything... and you remember cats as a funny subject on the Internet and Bunnies as food (Salarian raw liver IS a prothean delicassy after all !)

I mean... how would you react...

Troll all the pathetic lesser species...

...Oh and shatter the bunnies view of themselves by exposing their dirty little secret.

[humes spork]

dgumb wrote...

I don't think Blackwater is a good analogy in this case. It'd be more like an officer of the U.N. or a military officer from a NATO ally.

Yup, bare minimum Garrus and Tali would be considered exchange officers, and Liara would be a civilian VIP. As was mentioned earlier, Wrex is just about the only one who would be considered a potential security risk being a mercenary of a race generally considered hostile to Citadel races.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

I think what Ashley needed was a character arc built around getting past her distrust of aliens, similar to what we had with Tali in regards to the geth and Mordin with the krogan. Instead she got shoehorned into the same anti-Cerberus plotline as Kaidan, which seemed to fit him far more than it does her.

[TeffexPope]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Yeah i'm opening up this can of worms again. Now before you start making up excuses for Wrex and Javik, lemme ask you this. If I hate the British as a whole, for the crap that went down 300 years ago, would you make up excuses for me? There really is no real excuse out there for hating an entire race based on the actions of a few. Ashley had trust issues with other aliens but eventually grew out of it and trusted them as allies.

But then you've got Wrex who just openly insult Salarians and Turians in front of them, even go as far as joking about eating them. Then you've got Javik who just straight out trolls people. Not to mention there are other characters in the game that have made statements about trusting other aliens and what not. So why is Ashley the exception? Because she's human?

I don't know why it took me this long to notice this.

Because there's a lot of intolerant people in the video games demographic who hate any mention of the existence of a god, which Ashley professes to believe in in the first game. That, and she's a woman of course.

The fact that shes considered racist while the Protheans arrogantly declared the strong must dominate the weak for the greater good (works out great for the dominating race, doesn't it?) and theres no widespread dislike for Javik, convinces me of what I said above.

[Rogue Unit]

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

ReclaimedHavoc wrote...

I didn't read many posts, and I just want to share my opinion. Ashley is a good character, one of my favorites, and she isn't racist. Not in the slightest. Anyone who dismisses her as that is just ignorant. Shes mistrusting. Her whole family has been screwed because of HUMANS, that really doesn't help the outlook. She personally believes in Humanity standing strong, on it's own. And you can't even deny she brings up valid points. Aliens mistrust us, and like she said, they'd certainly be looking out for their species instead of others. She just wants humanity to be self reliant. She hated the racist in Terra Firma, and she hates Cerberus because their too extreme, that's plenty of proof. Even then, in the first game, you can convince her to become more open, and grow. She flat out says that she trusts the council now. Even in Mass Effect 3, she was willing to lay down her life for the council. Also, in the first game, she marvels at alien accomplishments, like the Destiny Accension.

Ignorant people.

The Alliance screwed her family. Now she's butthurt that the turians put a three-toed foot her grandpa's ass, so she vents her anger by being a racist ****.

Did you even bother to read the rest of the post?

And sure, it's perfectly ok when Krogan's are pissed at Turians and Salarians, but if Ashley's grandfather is bombed by turians, lets label her a racist.

If she should mistrust anyone, it should be the Alliance and humans. They're the one that screwed her family, not the aliens. And she only protects the council because it part of her job as a spectre. This is the same person that tells you to let the council die in ME1.

And marveling at the DA doesn't prove shes not a racist.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 24 mars 2012 - 05:08 .

[Mox Ruuga]

sistersafetypin wrote...


I haven't played ME1 in a while and I honestly don't care. At the end of the day, as I said I saved her. But her character as she is written in my opinion is simply shallow. Not her personality, but her character. It's to hard to either like or dislike her. Where as Kaiden annoyed me, so he died.

So in other words, you simple fell back to using the "lol racist" meme that's been chained to her character ever since the first game was released. I guess I should be thankful you didn't call her a religious fanatic as well?

You aren't alone in that... a lot of people flippantly dismiss Ashley this way, just parroting what they've seen others do. Kaidan too, for being a "whiner". Whereas unapologetic "racists" like Wrex and Tali and "whiners" like Garrus get lionized by hearteyed fanboys.

[Mavaras]

I don't hate her because she is racist.

I hate her because she is a drag. I don't like having to explain things twenty different ways to her like I'm dealing with a child. Not only is she one of the most disloyal teammates, she is a complete killjoy. People don't have to accept everything Shepard says, but if I wanted somebody that would never give me any charity despite my merit, I would have recruited the Turian counselor.

Modifié par Mavaras, 24 mars 2012 - 05:09 .

[Redraven19]

I like all three of the characters. The way I see it:

Javik: Essentially someone who grew up in a time where close minded thinking and blatant racism was okay and encouraged. A crotchety grandpa.

Wrex: The Krogan are a race that is always getting culturally stepped on and looked down on by a vast majority of galactic society. It's okay for him to crack jokes about other races, but say one word about the krogan and you get stomped. The krogan don't want to be considered second class anymore.

Ashley: The Archetype of someone raised to be prejudiced against those who are different, but through constant interaction learns that the preconceptions that she grew up with are wrong.


And that's why I like all three.