Could someone actually present some quotes/evidence to the idea that Ashley is a racist? I'd love to see if you can back up your argument.
So if people hate Ashley because they think she's "racist", then why do they like Wrex and Javik?
Débuté par
Mathias
, mars 24 2012 03:30
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#177
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 05:28
TheShinySword
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It's more like in the first game Ashley's main character trait was seen as racism and Kaiden's was generally agreeable guy (and boring) so neither of them are particularly popular. I don't find this fair and I actually like Ashley (saved her, kept her alive in ME3, actually kinda touched by her goodbye friendship speech). I think the reason other characters get a pass is because there's more to their characters than just "I don't trust aliens", I think this is partially because since she could die in one they didn't put as much work into her character.
#178
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 05:28
shadey
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Rogue Unit wrote...
Lol and soldiers don't kill people for a living?
the mercs in mass effect are little more than modern day pirates.
#179
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 05:29
Mox Ruuga
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Flashflame58 wrote...
Could someone actually present some quotes/evidence to the idea that Ashley is a racist? I'd love to see if you can back up your argument.
There are no such quotes. They are merely parroting the original stale meme from five years ago. Repeat a slander enough times, and it becomes the "truth" online.
Modifié par Mox Ruuga, 24 mars 2012 - 05:30 .
#180
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 05:29
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1. Ashley isn't racist. Nowhere in the games is there a hint of real racism.
2. I don't recall offhand any of Wrex's comments of racism. I'd like to know where they were from. He just strikes me as very distrustful.
3. As has been said, Javik is reeling from his world caving in one day from the Reapers attacking everything, to the next waking up and all of these incredibly primitive beings (even still primitive now, not just when he was first around) ruling the galaxy, and not only that but they pretty much ignored the Prothean warnings and the Reapers are here again.
I feel people dislike Ashley and label her a racist for several reasons, a couple of which I'll try to show.
1. The poetry. More specifically, the "warrior poet" thing. This is difficult to pull off: an almost contrary aptitude for killing combined with a very sensitive side (you're hard pressed to find someone who really likes poetry enough to memorize it even among civilians). Apparently, some people are put off by the sensitive side.
2. I also think her religious nature plays a part. I've personally seen people on here saying they dislike her because she believes in God, so that may turn people off to her, and cause them to view her more critically, which might turn into calling her racist.
3. And, of course, the fact that she's human is also a very large part. Even though it's not really true in the games, some minds kind of jump to the conclusion that the aliens are "smarter," or "better" or "wiser." Kind of a reverse racism. Similar to the racism described in this article.
2. I don't recall offhand any of Wrex's comments of racism. I'd like to know where they were from. He just strikes me as very distrustful.
3. As has been said, Javik is reeling from his world caving in one day from the Reapers attacking everything, to the next waking up and all of these incredibly primitive beings (even still primitive now, not just when he was first around) ruling the galaxy, and not only that but they pretty much ignored the Prothean warnings and the Reapers are here again.
I feel people dislike Ashley and label her a racist for several reasons, a couple of which I'll try to show.
1. The poetry. More specifically, the "warrior poet" thing. This is difficult to pull off: an almost contrary aptitude for killing combined with a very sensitive side (you're hard pressed to find someone who really likes poetry enough to memorize it even among civilians). Apparently, some people are put off by the sensitive side.
2. I also think her religious nature plays a part. I've personally seen people on here saying they dislike her because she believes in God, so that may turn people off to her, and cause them to view her more critically, which might turn into calling her racist.
3. And, of course, the fact that she's human is also a very large part. Even though it's not really true in the games, some minds kind of jump to the conclusion that the aliens are "smarter," or "better" or "wiser." Kind of a reverse racism. Similar to the racism described in this article.
Modifié par EternalAmbiguity, 24 mars 2012 - 05:33 .
#181
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 05:31
Rogue Unit
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shadey wrote...
Rogue Unit wrote...
Lol and soldiers don't kill people for a living?
the mercs in mass effect are little more than modern day pirates.
Not Zaeed. He's a gun for hire. He gets paid to kill people, same as a soldier. The moral ground on which it's done may be different, but they're both people that get paid to kill or capture.
#182
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 05:40
CrazyCatDude
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I loved Ashley in the first and second games. In the third, I think she's a bit under served by not having much dialog after she rejoins your crew. You never really get the chance to become friends again. The thing is most of the Squadmates exhibit racism to some degree. Liara, Ashley, Garrus, Wrex, Tali, Zaeed, Miranda, Jacob, Mordin, Grunt and Javik all, at some point make racist comments. Garrus at several points insults Quarians and Krogan. Zaeed lumps all Batarians under the label terrorist. Jacob called Garrus a 'cuddlebone', Mordin's entire storyline, Grunt tells you right up front that he hates turians. It takes a miracle to get Tali past her prejudice against the Geth, a lot of Javik's comments are just blatant. Miranda works for Cerberus. Liara, much as I adore her, does on several occasions display that wonderful Asari tendency to look down her nose at non-Asari. This is especially evident in the first game, and in how she reacts to the attack on Thessia.
I also see a lot of people harp on Ashley being a 'bible thumper' which annoys me to no end. She's religious, and someone defensive about the fact because she's apparently taken crap about it.
I think what bothers people is that she's up front about how she feels, and it isn't hidden in jokes and offhand comments.
It just seems to make her a more well rounded character in my book.
I also see a lot of people harp on Ashley being a 'bible thumper' which annoys me to no end. She's religious, and someone defensive about the fact because she's apparently taken crap about it.
I think what bothers people is that she's up front about how she feels, and it isn't hidden in jokes and offhand comments.
It just seems to make her a more well rounded character in my book.
#183
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 05:56
majormajormmajor
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Balls to Wrex and the krogan. They got what was coming to them, the swine.
And Javik and Ashley too, a bunch of vaginas.
I'll be bro-ing it up with Garrus and Beef McManslab here
And Javik and Ashley too, a bunch of vaginas.
I'll be bro-ing it up with Garrus and Beef McManslab here
#184
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 06:05
sedrikhcain
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Short answer: Ashley's human and the people who hate her love the aliens because they're disenchanted with humanity and like to fantasize about our "higher selves" in the person of the aliens.
But the thing about Ashley that people get wrong in talking about her racism is that it's frequently equated with being in the privileged class and looking down on the "minorities", when in fact, Ashley, like all the other humans in Mass Effect, is in the lower class on the galaxy's hierarchy of race. We're looked upon by the other races as uppity riff-raff who've gotten way too big for our britches and need to be put back into our place. That is the reality for humans in ME's Milky Way Galaxy. So Ashley's distrust and dislike of aliens comes being looked down on, marginalized and ghetto-ized, not from wanting to distance herself from the unwashed masses -- she IS the unwashed masses, as are all the other humans. And I've never seen a discussion on the BSN among people who actually seem to get that.
So I don't care if people call her racist and rip her for it, I just wish they'd the dynamic right.
But the thing about Ashley that people get wrong in talking about her racism is that it's frequently equated with being in the privileged class and looking down on the "minorities", when in fact, Ashley, like all the other humans in Mass Effect, is in the lower class on the galaxy's hierarchy of race. We're looked upon by the other races as uppity riff-raff who've gotten way too big for our britches and need to be put back into our place. That is the reality for humans in ME's Milky Way Galaxy. So Ashley's distrust and dislike of aliens comes being looked down on, marginalized and ghetto-ized, not from wanting to distance herself from the unwashed masses -- she IS the unwashed masses, as are all the other humans. And I've never seen a discussion on the BSN among people who actually seem to get that.
So I don't care if people call her racist and rip her for it, I just wish they'd the dynamic right.
#185
Posté 24 mars 2012 - 06:44
ObserverStatus
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Neither Wrex nor Javik murdered Wrex. That was all Ashley.
#186
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 10:34
dublin omega 223
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Javik: racist
Ashley: racist
Wrex: Krogan warlord and he has some age old wisdom to pass down to Shepard.
Ashley: racist
Wrex: Krogan warlord and he has some age old wisdom to pass down to Shepard.
#187
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 10:47
J0HNL3I
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demin8891 wrote...
'Case Wrex and Javik have a hilarious, dry sense of humor. That's their "Saving the cat" trait. They're douchebags, yeah, but there's an endearing quality that makes you like them nonetheless.
Ashley is just a ****.
This pretty much i wish i knew you could kill her when i did the cerberus coup
#188
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:01
Theta Thetis
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To be honest, I find Wrex (and krogan in general) highly irritating. I got rid of Wrex the first chance I got and never regretted it. The whole "blood rage" bezerker thing never flew with me.
Javik and Ashley, on the other hand were probably my favorite characters.
Javik and Ashley, on the other hand were probably my favorite characters.
#189
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:05
George Costanza
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Because Ashley is human. It's only racist if it's us doing it, not if it's aliens doing it. Then it's laughs.
Like how they made Guess Who's Coming To Dinner? about a black guy who dates a white girl. It's a moving, forward thinking, Oscar winning drama starring Katherine Hepburn and Sidney Poitier. Years later they made a loose remake entitled Guess Who about a white guy who dates a black girl. It's a farcical romantic comedy starring Bernie Mac.
Like how they made Guess Who's Coming To Dinner? about a black guy who dates a white girl. It's a moving, forward thinking, Oscar winning drama starring Katherine Hepburn and Sidney Poitier. Years later they made a loose remake entitled Guess Who about a white guy who dates a black girl. It's a farcical romantic comedy starring Bernie Mac.
#190
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:06
Magiking117
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Ashley still shows empathy for Liara, which I liked. There's no utter hate for aliens.
Oh, and I have to add she's fun to romance; what with her feisty attitude.
Oh, and I have to add she's fun to romance; what with her feisty attitude.
#191
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:08
poundoffleshaa
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Mdoggy1214 wrote...
Yeah i'm opening up this can of worms again. Now before you start making up excuses for Wrex and Javik, lemme ask you this. If I hate the British as a whole, for the crap that went down 300 years ago, would you make up excuses for me? There really is no real excuse out there for hating an entire race based on the actions of a few. Ashley had trust issues with other aliens but eventually grew out of it and trusted them as allies.
But then you've got Wrex who just openly insult Salarians and Turians in front of them, even go as far as joking about eating them. Then you've got Javik who just straight out trolls people. Not to mention there are other characters in the game that have made statements about trusting other aliens and what not. So why is Ashley the exception? Because she's human?
I don't know why it took me this long to notice this.
The British didn't sterelise you though, the effects of the genophage are still being felt by the current generation of krogans whilst most of the places Britain governed are now doing well.
Modifié par poundoffleshaa, 28 mai 2012 - 11:10 .
#192
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:11
linkblade0
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Wrex is distrustful and yes a bit of a racist but he doesn't turn that into a reason to **** about the fact he's working with a Turian. Hell he even gets to the point where he calls Garrus his friend. He still dislikes Turians as a whole but he recognizes that the individual doesn't encompass the race. On Sur'Kesh he was understandably pissed at the Salarians.. the same race that cursed his race with the Genophage now has the cure but isn't giving it to him. I'd be rather pissed at it to.
Javik I'm kinda 'meh' about. He's a soldier outside his time with only one mission. Kill the Reapers... Nothing else, he cant rebuild his race, he's not interested in 'enlightening' any of the other races. He just wants to kill the enemy that had doomed his race from before the time he was born. He openly admits at first that the only reason he's working with you is that you give him the best chance to succeed in his mission. In his mind, not 2 years ago you and everyone else in the galaxy were nothing more than dirt dwellers. So suddenly changing his imperial attitude to 'lesser races' in a minute is rather difficult.
Ashley isn't 'racist' the proper term for her is xenophobic. Racism is generally understood as either belief that different racial groups are characterized by intrinsic characteristics or abilities and that some such groups are therefore naturally superior to others. Xenophobic means literally 'an unreasonable Fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange'. In the Mass Effect verse it is used to describe individuals who are distrustful, fearful, or feel hate for alien races.
Ashley holds the belief that humans shouldn't have joined up with the council races. She feels that humans should handle themselves and work for personal advancement. Ironically, this is basically the same core philosophy that Cerberus adheres to (or so TIM proclaims)
The reasons I dislike her are...
1) Because she is basically against working with aliens. She only does so because you basically order her to put up with it in ME1. I'm not one to say 'screw humans' I actually feel they should work for expanding their fleet to better colonize and expand, but neither am I against working with the other races. Her attitude toward allies annoys me. Just a personality thing.
2) I dislike her because in ME2 and part of ME3, despite all the history you (Shepard) and her have, she basically automatically assumes you to now be a terrorist, Hell, if I remember right, she jumps the gun and thinks that Cerberus is behind the colony attacks despite that she literally just saw the collectors attack. In ME3 throughout the entire mission on Mars she is bugging you acting like your privately leading Cerberus there. I was not upset when she got beaten half to death by that robot.
Javik I'm kinda 'meh' about. He's a soldier outside his time with only one mission. Kill the Reapers... Nothing else, he cant rebuild his race, he's not interested in 'enlightening' any of the other races. He just wants to kill the enemy that had doomed his race from before the time he was born. He openly admits at first that the only reason he's working with you is that you give him the best chance to succeed in his mission. In his mind, not 2 years ago you and everyone else in the galaxy were nothing more than dirt dwellers. So suddenly changing his imperial attitude to 'lesser races' in a minute is rather difficult.
Ashley isn't 'racist' the proper term for her is xenophobic. Racism is generally understood as either belief that different racial groups are characterized by intrinsic characteristics or abilities and that some such groups are therefore naturally superior to others. Xenophobic means literally 'an unreasonable Fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange'. In the Mass Effect verse it is used to describe individuals who are distrustful, fearful, or feel hate for alien races.
Ashley holds the belief that humans shouldn't have joined up with the council races. She feels that humans should handle themselves and work for personal advancement. Ironically, this is basically the same core philosophy that Cerberus adheres to (or so TIM proclaims)
The reasons I dislike her are...
1) Because she is basically against working with aliens. She only does so because you basically order her to put up with it in ME1. I'm not one to say 'screw humans' I actually feel they should work for expanding their fleet to better colonize and expand, but neither am I against working with the other races. Her attitude toward allies annoys me. Just a personality thing.
2) I dislike her because in ME2 and part of ME3, despite all the history you (Shepard) and her have, she basically automatically assumes you to now be a terrorist, Hell, if I remember right, she jumps the gun and thinks that Cerberus is behind the colony attacks despite that she literally just saw the collectors attack. In ME3 throughout the entire mission on Mars she is bugging you acting like your privately leading Cerberus there. I was not upset when she got beaten half to death by that robot.
#193
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:12
Joe Del Toro
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Wrex's race was doomed to sterility, pain and heartache for over a thousand years by Salarians. Think I can understand him being a bit pissed off.
Ashley? "Ooh my grandfather was a wuss so I guess aliens are to blame a-bloo-bloo-bloo!"
As for Javik...he's a product of his time. He was brought up to be superior because the way the galaxy was run he pretty much WAS. SO when you plop him in the middle of an entire other timeline, of course he's gonna stay the way he is. Not to excuse it, but I at least can look past it. Like I can an elderly person who says mildly racist things because the phrases weren't considered racist when they were younger. Bit different but I follow the same kind of logic.
Ashley? "Ooh my grandfather was a wuss so I guess aliens are to blame a-bloo-bloo-bloo!"
As for Javik...he's a product of his time. He was brought up to be superior because the way the galaxy was run he pretty much WAS. SO when you plop him in the middle of an entire other timeline, of course he's gonna stay the way he is. Not to excuse it, but I at least can look past it. Like I can an elderly person who says mildly racist things because the phrases weren't considered racist when they were younger. Bit different but I follow the same kind of logic.
#194
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:13
linkblade0
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Modifié par linkblade0, 28 mai 2012 - 11:14 .
#195
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:14
Ubergrog
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I hate ashley in ME3 because they turned her into a porn star.
#196
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:15
MoonsKisu
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TheShadowWolf911 wrote...
she bores me, thats why.
#197
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:16
Theta Thetis
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Ubergrog wrote...
I hate ashley in ME3 because they turned her into a porn star.
+1
#198
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:17
dublin omega 223
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Honestly with Ashley's racist views I'm very surprised she wasn't a member of Cerberus. Heck she'd be the perfect recruit.
#199
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:19
Theta Thetis
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dublin omega 223 wrote...
Honestly with Ashley's racist views I'm very surprised she wasn't a member of Cerberus. Heck she'd be the perfect recruit.
I'd doubt that she'd be in favor of those experiments Cereberus carried out. Also xenophobic does not equal racist.
Modifié par Theta Thetis, 28 mai 2012 - 11:20 .
#200
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 11:24
dublin omega 223
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Theta Thetis wrote...
dublin omega 223 wrote...
Honestly with Ashley's racist views I'm very surprised she wasn't a member of Cerberus. Heck she'd be the perfect recruit.
I'd doubt that she'd be in favor of those experiments Cereberus carried out. Also xenophobic does not equal racist.
racism is racism weather its xenophobia or not.
I'm Irish, I know that better then most as the Irish have been victims of racism for so long.
