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[Darth_Trethon]

Original182 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Anora aptly led ferelden for over 5 years and has all the nobles....except eamon....blieve in her. She does her job and a grand thing at that unlike Alistair. Alistair is a public figure.....gray warden who was in a fight against the blight and archdemon....more or less the equivalent of today's superstars. It still says nothing about what he did....except "mostly" not rule.....sure never made a noteworthy decision in his life....except deciding to NOT rule....that was only his job....I'm sure he decided for himself what kind of sanwitches he wanted....tough choices....ham or beacon.

Fighting an Archdemon is like a superstar? He freakin' SAVED Ferelden from utter annihilation, while Anora was probably back in Denerim polishing her nails in a tower. Alistair is a war hero.

If the population is happy, and there are no negative things like Ferelden having civil wars,  then Alistair did something right. Therefore Alistair is also a great ruler, just like Anora.

But Alistair has no blemishes, while Anora has one. Therefore based on simple mathetics, Alistair is the better ruler.

He's worshiped and loved for something irrelevant to his responsibility and job. Plus he is overly emotional and highly subject to just quit and leave at the last minute....though people don't know that bit.

Or he was just lucky.....that seems more likely.

[Darth_Trethon]

Ariella wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Anora aptly led ferelden for over 5 years and has all the nobles....except eamon....blieve in her. .

Anora didn't lead the country for five years. Cailan did, she worked behind the scenes as an administrator.

Plus as soon as Daddy seizes power she shows absolultely no true leadship ability. There's a big difference between being a good leader and a good bureacrat (Anora's the latter)

If she'd had all the nobles beliving in her (and not Daddy) why didn't she stand up to him with the backing of those nobles? Because she didn't....

Cailan was ruler in name only....the game clearly says he was mostly with the army while Anora single handedly did all the ruling....that is not subject to opinion it is a clearly stated game fact. It is also a fact THAT is precisely why all the nobles accept her as queen though she is not of noble blood.

[Cyberpunk]

Don't feed the Troll. It only gets bigger after time.

[Darth_Trethon]

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

Don't feed the Troll. It only gets bigger after time.

If you cannot have a civil conversation then leave. Drop the insults. Fact remains there is nothing to support alistair as being a good or even half decent king.

[Original182]

Dude we've already given you proof. The people are happy, no blemishes like Anora coming down hard on the city elves.
Based on the epilogue, Alistair is the better king whether you like him or not.

Modifié par Original182, 08 décembre 2009 - 11:50 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Original182 wrote...

Dude we've already given you proof. The people are happy, no blemishes like Anora coming down hard on the city elves.
Based on the epilogue, Alistair is the better king whether you like him or not.

Actually my point is that his quality as a ruler is highly questionable.....since he wasn't the one doing his own job. If Loghain was right about a single thing that thing is that Alistair was to be puppet on the throne for eamon and maker knows who else to pull his strings.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Hmm..someone is letting his Alistair-hate completely fill the vast caivity in his head.



You are wrong on practicly all of your acounts. Peopel have already posted clear proof that with Alistair as king, Ferelden is doing good.



you seem to think that a ruler has to make all the decision himself and that that is a mark of a good ruler. Quite the opposite. That is a mark of a bad ruler - to think he knows everything best.

The mark of a good ruler is to try to make the right choice. A good ruler has people to help him in areas he's weak. You can't be making decision on enviromental polution, mionetary politics and trade taxes without being familiar with the subjects. That's why good rulers have good minister/advisors.



Now stop trolling allready.

[marshalleck]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Hmm..someone is letting his Alistair-hate completely fill the vast caivity in his head.

[snip for brevity]

Now stop trolling allready.

Right...pardon some people for not taking that seriously when it comes from you.

Modifié par marshalleck, 08 décembre 2009 - 12:21 .

[Ariella]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Anora aptly led ferelden for over 5 years and has all the nobles....except eamon....blieve in her. .

Anora didn't lead the country for five years. Cailan did, she worked behind the scenes as an administrator.

Plus as soon as Daddy seizes power she shows absolultely no true leadship ability. There's a big difference between being a good leader and a good bureacrat (Anora's the latter)

If she'd had all the nobles beliving in her (and not Daddy) why didn't she stand up to him with the backing of those nobles? Because she didn't....

Cailan was ruler in name only....the game clearly says he was mostly with the army while Anora single handedly did all the ruling....that is not subject to opinion it is a clearly stated game fact. It is also a fact THAT is precisely why all the nobles accept her as queen though she is not of noble blood.

I've played the game several times now and never seen anything that says Anora was ruling single handedly while Cailan was mostly out with the army for the entire 5 years of Cailan's reign. There's absolutely nothing to back that up. Second, Anora IS of noble blood. Her mother was a noble and her father was enobled when he was given the tenyr of Gwernth, which is why she was accepted as Queen.

You completely ignore any of my actual arguments: that she's a bureacrat not a real leader and that she she didn't have the vast majority of nobles believing in her. She had popularity but that doesn't always translate into effectiveness.

[BlueEyes_Austin]

All that proves is that she was a respected politician, and even I respect her because she's cunning and devious, it doesn't prove anything about the quality of her rule.

Utter rot.  The quality of her political skills is directly related to the quality of her rule.  A heck of a lot more than cutting the head off of a dragon or being born the bastard child of a king.

[tmp7704]

Original182 wrote...

Dude we've already given you proof. The people are happy, no blemishes like Anora coming down hard on the city elves.
Based on the epilogue, Alistair is the better king whether you like him or not.

Well, if we're going to play the end game quotes, the epilogue also says explicitly "a food shortage years later forced Queen Anora to come down hard on elven rioters". Note the keywords. Maybe people are quite too quick to play the race card here and focus on "elf" part while ignoring the "rioter" part, as well as attribute willingness in situation where it didn't have to be the case.

[Darth_Trethon]

Ariella wrote...

I've played the game several times now and never seen anything that says Anora was ruling single handedly while Cailan was mostly out with the army for the entire 5 years of Cailan's reign. There's absolutely nothing to back that up. Second, Anora IS of noble blood. Her mother was a noble and her father was enobled when he was given the tenyr of Gwernth, which is why she was accepted as Queen.

You completely ignore any of my actual arguments: that she's a bureacrat not a real leader and that she she didn't have the vast majority of nobles believing in her. She had popularity but that doesn't always translate into effectiveness.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Anora

The only child of the war hero Loghain Mac Tir, Anora has never been
one to stay quietly in the background. It is common knowledge that in
the five years Anora and Cailan held the throne, she was the one
wielding the power. She is held in much higher esteem than her husband
by the people of Ferelden, nobility and commoners alike, and commands
the respect even of foreign nations, having once inspired Empress Celene I of Orlais to declare, "Anora of Ferelden is a solitary rose among brambles."

^^^^^^DIRECT quote from the in-game codex page about Anora.

Then you were not paying attention and actually looking to ask about her. You can talk to Eamon and several others about her. Now I realize the wikia is hardly a flawless proof but this is IN the game. I don't care what you missed or how many times. This is FACT in the game not something that is argable in any way.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 08 décembre 2009 - 08:57 .

[voidwarrior]

I never liked Queen Anora but she is an awesome character that made the game more interesting. Lol she's like a real politician.

[Hrodberht]

In my games I use Loghain's skull as a drinking mug, and Anora's hide to cover my footstool.

[Xandurpein]

The irony that many seem to miss is that Anora's and Alistairs respective strength's and weaknesses are very complimentary. Anora have strong qualities where Alistair is weak and vice versa. Maybe Alistair marrying Anora is really an ideal solution after all...

[Lotion Soronarr]

tmp7704 wrote...
Well, if we're going to play the end game quotes, the epilogue also says explicitly "a food shortage years later forced Queen Anora to come down hard on elven rioters". Note the keywords. Maybe people are quite too quick to play the race card here and focus on "elf" part while ignoring the "rioter" part, as well as attribute willingness in situation where it didn't have to be the case.

Funyn how Ferelden under Alistair doesn't suffer from a food shortage, no?

[NetBeansAndJava]

I did think that Anora was power hungry, but she was also a competent leader... having had much experience and being popular with the people. In my ending, she seemed like the right choice. Her only fault was that she came down hard on the elves after a riot caused by food shortages. Terrible as this may seem, considering her other merits, I'd say she balances out to be at least decent.

[Leg_lamp]

Xandurpein wrote...

The irony that many seem to miss is that Anora's and Alistairs respective strength's and weaknesses are very complimentary. Anora have strong qualities where Alistair is weak and vice versa. Maybe Alistair marrying Anora is really an ideal solution after all...

I think the best ending for Denerim is where Hardened Alistair marries Anora.  Together they make a Golden Age.  

  

Modifié par Leg_lamp, 10 décembre 2009 - 09:15 .

[Ariella]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Ariella wrote...

I've played the game several times now and never seen anything that says Anora was ruling single handedly while Cailan was mostly out with the army for the entire 5 years of Cailan's reign. There's absolutely nothing to back that up. Second, Anora IS of noble blood. Her mother was a noble and her father was enobled when he was given the tenyr of Gwernth, which is why she was accepted as Queen.

You completely ignore any of my actual arguments: that she's a bureacrat not a real leader and that she she didn't have the vast majority of nobles believing in her. She had popularity but that doesn't always translate into effectiveness.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Anora

The only child of the war hero Loghain Mac Tir, Anora has never been
one to stay quietly in the background. It is common knowledge that in
the five years Anora and Cailan held the throne, she was the one
wielding the power. She is held in much higher esteem than her husband
by the people of Ferelden, nobility and commoners alike, and commands
the respect even of foreign nations, having once inspired Empress Celene I of Orlais to declare, "Anora of Ferelden is a solitary rose among brambles."

^^^^^^DIRECT quote from the in-game codex page about Anora.

Then you were not paying attention and actually looking to ask about her. You can talk to Eamon and several others about her. Now I realize the wikia is hardly a flawless proof but this is IN the game. I don't care what you missed or how many times. This is FACT in the game not something that is argable in any way.

Actually I've seen this before, but as I pointed out: A) she wasn't single handedly ruling during the 5 years with Cailan while Calian was out with the army (which your quote does not prove) she was wielding power behind the scenes which is not the same as ruling openly. And yes you can talk to Eamon about her, where he says she was "a capable administrator for Cailan's lands" (also a direct quote) but nothing about her LEADERSHIP ability.

My argument remains...

[tmp7704]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Funyn how Ferelden under Alistair doesn't suffer from a food shortage, no?

I bet they just eat elves which takes care of both food shortage *and* the riots, and Alistair being reluctant ruler never gets to find out.
"Soylent Green, now with crunchy sharp-pointed bits"

[Ashander23]

Or, perhaps, Alistair doesn't cater to the nobles, thus avoiding overconsumption. Or the elf appointed to the council is able to effectively improve his own quarters way of life, because he is ALLOWED to.



I dunno. Anora uses the people's love for her against you too often. She has to remind everyone constantly that she has the people's backing. Odd that that isn't reflected anywhere but from the higher end of society in Denerim. You know... those who play the political game.



Also, since when is massacring a population for rebelling against a situation you put them in acceptable? Anora is the ruler, and she is holding back the food, so she squashes those who are hungry? No one in the castle looked hungry to me...



Alistair is a confused character, but he certainly knows his duty and is willing to fulfill it. Give him the throne, and he'll do everything he can to be good at it. Anora is certainly not confused, but she is not a strong leader either. She's able to spin things, and act before you figure out what's going on. Great PLANNER... not a leader. Alot like... wait for it... Arl Howe (only Howe is alot more evil from the game's perspective).



Great contranst, here, between the politics in Orzammar and that in Denerim.

[Willowhugger]

I think it's important to understand that we can't say Anora isn't a great leader. The problem is that her authority evaporates with the death of Calian. She's in something of a legal limbo until the Landsmeet as she was effectively serving as defacto chancellor of Calian or seneschal while he was out fighting or showing off. Honestly, it's a pity that Alistair doesn't have the option of making Anora his Chancellor as that might have been an excellent compromise with a high enough (Persuade) rating.



Anora is a pretty damn ruthless leader. The incident at the alienage over the food riots shows that she's not above doing some nasty business. However, she didn't purge the alienage again, just put down the riot. Alistair expands the power of the elves and that's a definite point in his favor but we don't know how the others work. Anora, for example, is said to be able to maintain a golden age for Fereldan if you manage to marry her and reach a compromise.



I note that Anora is actually intimidated by the Grey Warden in my romance of her. She defrosts a great deal after the Archdemon is dead and her father is still alive.

[element eater]

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

Well, Alistair technically is the rightful heir because he is Maric's son. Anora is just a commoner who married the king. .

hows alistair the rightful king anora has just as strong a claim as him shes acting queen and the daughter of a powerful noble and war hero alistair in an iligitamate and un recognised son. not saying that he wouldnt be a good king just think his claim isnt all that sound . sorry for quoting a first page post this comment just bugged me

[Asophetes]

element eater wrote...


hows alistair the rightful king anora has just as strong a claim as him shes acting queen and the daughter of a powerful noble and war hero alistair in an iligitamate and un recognised son. not saying that he wouldnt be a good king just think his claim isnt all that sound . sorry for quoting a first page post this comment just bugged me

Alistair is still of Royal blood, and that makes him the next ruler as default, even though he's a bastard. This is the reason why Queen Elizibeth never married, because the Parliment would support a male as a nation's leader instead of a female. Arnora is just the wife of the former king without a son. If Alistair was known among the landsmeet, they would just screw Arnora over in favor of a king than a queen.