385 réponses à ce sujet

[cglasgow]

Yeah. You can argue the point about the confrontation with Cauthrien back and forth as either instant willingness to backstab or a wrong decision made in a moment of panic, but there's no arguing about her coming in to support her dad at the Landsmeet if you haven't promised her the crown, or purging the alienage as queen. Both of those are premeditated decisions made under no duress, and both of those are just plain non-good.

[velmyn]

For all the hype she gets...



Anora's little more than a celebrated ****: she will spread for anyone, as long as they can get her what she wants...

[tls5669]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I let her rule my first playthrough.

She never backstabbed me because I never backstabbed her. I love the character, and wish there were an Anora romance.

Ya me too. I know its possible to marry her, but I want to romance her, not just be the king consort.

[barcooper]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

kooaznboi1088 wrote...
Alistair would make a fine king too. But in that case, Alistair wants revenge. And I think that revenge is a little bit more honorable than greed...

Really? Wanting to take the throne so you can kill a man is more honorable than wanting to take the throne because you're already the Queen and want to serve the kingdom?

And that’s where I perceive her actions differently. She’s not ruling for the kingdoms sake, but exclusively for her  very own. And what’s worse, she has neither believes, nor loyalty, nor decency.

 

If she had, she could have supported Earl Eamon after being recued, knowing her father killed her husband and many hundreds with him. And even later in the landsmeet; in my play-through she knew about the elves and the torturing and still she sided with her father knowing people would suffer for her lust for power.

 

For me she is even worse than Logain and I would very much like to have the option to remove her permanently. She says it herself: “a mercy I wouldn’t have shown myself…”

Modifié par barcooper, 01 décembre 2009 - 02:20 .

[Yorenec]

Anora would be fine if she wasn't utterly inept as a wartime ruler.



That alone is enough for me to put hardened Alistair on the throne.

[likeorasgod]

So far out of my three play throughs I had them both marry each other twice. Though last time Alister pissed me off cause we didn't do the blood ritual thing with Morgain (for the demon love child) and he argued about takeing the final blow.....THIS IS MY GLORY....your the king back off little man. (LOL Dwarf Female Noble). This play around I finaly sided with Bhlen and I'm going to have alister excuted just to shut up his whinning.....I'll let Logie take the fall at the end though....make him a hero once more in death.

[RunCDFirst]

cglasgow wrote...

Yeah. You can argue the point about the confrontation with Cauthrien back and forth as either instant willingness to backstab or a wrong decision made in a moment of panic, but there's no arguing about her coming in to support her dad at the Landsmeet if you haven't promised her the crown, or purging the alienage as queen. Both of those are premeditated decisions made under no duress, and both of those are just plain non-good.

When people post things like these, I can't help but think they misunderstood the situation.

I liked the end Denerim moment because it was the most political moment in the game. It could have been better, more intrigue and the like but even with the characters stating motivations explicitly, it seems the situation still seemed rather muddy to individuals.

Anora "betraying" you to Cauthrien is a very logical step to take. Arl Eamon understands that she's a very adept ally to have against Loghain and her forcing a confrontation between you and Cauthrien is the only option she has left if she's to escape Howe's estate and still assist you.

[apantoliani]

Anora is a politician. If you take Loghain after Landsmeet he'll tell you about her if you ask. She does what she thinks she needs to do to get what you want, and in this case, it's the crown.



After Cailan dies, her father makes sense to deal with the Darkspawn.

When her father is starting to have trouble due to the PC, she starts to nose around to figure out what is going on.

Once the PC disposes of Howe, her father's right hand man and either kills Ser Cauthrien/escapes from Drakon, it's quite clear to her at that point that you are no small force to deal with, so she attempts to make a deal with you.

Depending on you, she'll either side with or against you - all depending on her own best interests.



If it was up to me, I'd have her executed at the Landsmeet every single time I put Alistair up for king. When I don't, I wish I could assassinate her.



She'd fit in pretty good with dwarven nobility I think.

[Taleroth]

I don't think so poorly of Anora. Aside from her little bit about turning my guy into Cauthrian, she seems well enough. And I can chalk up the Cauthrian bit to a railroad track.

[kazic284]

Krigwin has it exactly right. She doesn't want to rule as a function of serving her people/nation, she wants to rule to serve herself. The moment the way the wind's blowing changes, she goes right along with it. You can't trust someone like that, and it's certainly not a good idea to put them anywhere near power.



I don't know that she's a good ruler, so much as, she was the only ruler because Cailan wasn't interested in it. She didn't run the country into the ground, but I'd think if she had been really great during Cailan's reign, more nobles would have rallied around her and she would have been able to push her crazy father out. Instead she seems rather ineffective/impotent as Queen until we get to the landsmeet.



I know that Loghain's her father and all, but given how ruthless she is, I don't think she would have hesitated to clap him in irons if she'd had the political capitial to do it, after he proved he wasn't really listening to her.



What gets me the most, is that Loghain seems to see himself as her general, and her as ruler (he mentions the idea at the landsmeet) but she's doing very little ruling at that point. I know he's crazy, but in what world does hijacking the throne constitute as being number 2? I feel like he and Dick Cheney have been exchanging notes.



Anyway, I didn't like Anora, I may put her on the throne once just for completion's sake, but I hate her as a character. She was annoying as heck, and I never did understand why we can't have her killed. Seems to me that as long as she's alive she's a danger to the throne. Just my two cents.

[Majspuffen]

I never ever really trusted her, but with my first character I allowed her to be queen, just because my character loved Alistair and wanted to keep him for herself. Anora did not execute Alistair though, not sure why. Alistair did kill Loghain. However, the ending was bugged because Alistair spoke as if he was going to be king.

With my elven warrior, I wanted to try to get her to marry Alistair, Both agreed to it. However, she turned on me, so I had Loghain killed and then she got locked up in the tower. Real shame, my character was a female... doesn't females have the right to kill other females? *ponders*

Modifié par Majspuffen, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:55 .

[Vizkos]

Majspuffen wrote...

I never ever really trusted her, but with my first character I allowed her to be queen, just because my character loved Alistair and wanted to keep him for herself. Anora did not execute Alistair though, not sure why. Alistair did kill Loghain. However, the ending was bugged because Alistair spoke as if he was going to be king.

With my elven warrior, I wanted to try to get her to marry Alistair, Both agreed to it. However, she turned on me, so I had Loghain killed and then she got locked up in the tower. Real shame, my character was a female... doesn't females have the right to kill other females? *ponders*

You could have been queen!  OH NOES!

First play through I supported Allistair and became his Chancellor.  2nd playthrough I married Anora and gave Loghain redeption,  Allistair ran off pissed like a little boy.  If only Rhiorden or however you spell his name, could have revealed the grim truth about the Archdemon, then allistair would have supported allowing Loghain to join the Wardens maybe.

[tmp7704]

kazic284 wrote...

She didn't run the country into the ground, but I'd think if she had been really great during Cailan's reign, more nobles would have rallied around her and she would have been able to push her crazy father out. Instead she seems rather ineffective/impotent as Queen until we get to the landsmeet.

She is acknowledged as very efficient and loved ruler based on how she did before the darkspawn happened. Her problem is lack of military might -- the forces under the king's command were wiped in the battle of Ostagar and the remaining soldiers answer only to Loghain. The nobles who might want to support her rather than Loghain generally get beaten by Loghain's forces whenever they attempt to face him, if the gossips you hear around the game world are anything to go by.

That Loghain is seen by many as war hero and such doesn't help her to denounce him, either.

[andre_]

Krigwin's nailed it pretty good. Anora's actions highly depend on what she wants, she's manipulative, or at least tries to be



But there's at least one other situation I ran into that didn't get mentioned in this thread (which really caught me off guard).



Help to "rescue" her, support her in every way. Surrender to Cauthrien, then escape from the prison. That ruins her plans - your're neither dead nor in prison, and still in a position to remove Loghain. Did you watch her hands while talking to her at Eamon's estate? You can see that she's hiding something! But still, agree to the alliance for the landsmeet. Tell her you support her as queen. If she asks what would happen to her father, tell her justice needs to be done. You didn't lie to her nor tried to backstab her. And she will still turn against you at the landsmeet.



She's such a nice person! All the characteristics a ruler of a land requires, eh? Queen? How about that tower over there?

[tmp7704]

andre_ wrote...

 But still, agree to the alliance for the landsmeet. Tell her you support her as queen. If she asks what would happen to her father, tell her justice needs to be done. You didn't lie to her nor tried to backstab her. And she will still turn against you at the landsmeet.

She didn't turn on my character when i went this route. She spoke in favour of removing Loghain and supported my claims, it just didn't turn to be enough to sway everyone according to the game. (read: the game has the hoop it wants you to jump through and there's no escaping that no matter what you do)

edit: i have loaded that part to make sure and yup, she definitely spoke against Loghain there. It may have to do with which exact points you raise in the discussion prior, dunno. I was trying to draw attention to the Blight, then accused him of withdrawing from field and then hit him with the elf trade, and when he tried to bring Anora in the mix i countered with "we're discussing your crimes here". Then she showed up and told how Loghain had her imprisoned etc.

Modifié par tmp7704, 01 décembre 2009 - 06:47 .

[TuringPoint]

I think she is being misunderstood. I wouldn't call her a nice person, as I've said elsewhere, but she helped more than she hurt your cause. She gave you ammunition against Loghain, and by doing that she is cooperating with you. She is giving you what you want and need, so why is she doing that? Can you follow that thought to its logical conclusion? It's not a matter of liking her that I'm asking about, it's if you can understand her. I think she is being misunderstood; that doesn't mean I think people should be sympathetic, that's up to you, as her opposition.



It just seems irresponsible not to realize she's out for what she wants, too. And then consider her a horrible person for wanting to maintain control of a given situation. Isn't that a little hypocritical?



If you managed to fail to get her on your side, she ended up in a power struggle with you. To want what you want over what someone else wants, to have that conflict, is the definition of a power struggle. Anora proves quite wary and intelligent when it comes to power struggles, which of course makes enemies in some people who aren't interested in what happens to them, but expect that what happens to them should be a given. I don't think she's 100% the best ruler, but I worship Bioware for making a character like her.



Far better to have a King that can go with the flow, eh? I don't know, perhaps.

[marshalleck]

andre_ wrote...

Krigwin's nailed it pretty good. Anora's actions highly depend on what she wants, she's manipulative, or at least tries to be

But there's at least one other situation I ran into that didn't get mentioned in this thread (which really caught me off guard).

Help to "rescue" her, support her in every way. Surrender to Cauthrien, then escape from the prison. That ruins her plans - your're neither dead nor in prison, and still in a position to remove Loghain. Did you watch her hands while talking to her at Eamon's estate? You can see that she's hiding something! But still, agree to the alliance for the landsmeet. Tell her you support her as queen. If she asks what would happen to her father, tell her justice needs to be done. You didn't lie to her nor tried to backstab her. And she will still turn against you at the landsmeet.

She's such a nice person! All the characteristics a ruler of a land requires, eh? Queen? How about that tower over there?

So wait. if you tell her you're going to kill her father, she won't support you? God, what a miserable treacherous *****! :innocent:

[sivid13]

To add to Krigwin's trap argument:



When you first came to her door at Howl's, it's magically blocked. Try talking to her and her voice sounds suspiciously strange, basically saying:"Oh my doors be blocked by magics, be a dear and go kill that mage, who's conveniently just at the side of Rendon Howe."



If I may take a guess, it's actually Anora herself who provoked Howe enough that he ordered his mage to seal the door, and she's actually working to hide back her laughter while talking to you through that door.



Which is further proof that it was a trap laid specifically for you the usurper. If Howe dies, good for her; if Howe doesn't die, you die.

[andre_]

@tmp7704: Well, that's how it happened on my playthrough. I believe the difference is the response you give her at Eamon's when she asks about her father.



@marshalleck: Hehe Just saying that there's another way to turn her against you. The game surprised me - in a good way.

Personally, I do understand her decision. But then you get asked who should be sitting on that throne. She knew about her father's shady actions, she even came to me and offered said alliance. But she should have known that this is a dangerous game she's playing, that her way of making decisions would maybe turn me to Alistar as a king instead.



But well, then again she probably expected me to drop dead on that landsmeeting chamber riot Which was totally awesome btw!

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Ser Cauthrien earned my ire with her tone before the Landsmeet saying I should be quiet in the presence of my betters... My betters apparently being a family slayer and torturer and a traitor to the crown with her knowing this.



I've only spared her once and felt nothing else. She wasn't naive but she followed them anyway. Loyalty to traitors and psychotics didn't impress me. As for Anora, I felt her and Alistair were a good match. She needed his honor to temper her reactions. I've hooked them up every time I could and killed Loghain. The assurance that even if he betrayed us he would end up in the Deep Roads didn't sit well with me. He had many chances for mercy and redemption and cast them aside each time, ignoring everything only to want forgiveness when he lost? Bull****.



It isn't something I would accept a "My Bad" for...

[tmp7704]

andre_ wrote...

@tmp7704: Well, that's how it happened on my playthrough. I believe the difference is the response you give her at Eamon's when she asks about her father.

It doesn't seem to be that because i picked the very same response. She knew i wasn't going to spare her father and she was very regretful about it but accepted it as inevitable.

I suspect (given the speech she gave in your case) it really has to do with what you tell at the Landsmeet. By drawing attention to her husband's death and charging Loghain with something that cannot be denied (the elf business) she has to accept his guilt in it all. Other options may be things she finds easier to dismiss --or attributes just to Howe-- and that allows the loyalty for her father take over.

Modifié par tmp7704, 01 décembre 2009 - 07:33 .

[Maria Caliban]

Krigwin wrote...


I'm sorry to rudely interrupt what is apparently a very heated session of patting yourself on the back, but some of us saw the "Reveal Anora" option as a chance to talk down Cauthrien and chose it specifically in the hopes of a peaceful resolution, only to be immediately betrayed by Anora.

So what you're saying is..

Maria Caliban wrote...

Others came in with different expectations, and when they pick the ‘screw Anora’ option, they‘re surprised at what looks like a backstabbing.

That you came in with difference expections, and when you picked that option were surprised at Anora backstabbing you.

[Akka le Vil]

kooaznboi1088 wrote...

Anyway, she always gets sent to prison. And her father has died in all my playthroughs.

Well said, brother !

I will back her up and save Loghain once, just to see what happens, but you can bet that each and every single one of my other playthrough they will both get the worst.

Edit : perhaps I'll marry her once. I can still dream that she will have an "accident" some time after the wedding.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 01 décembre 2009 - 07:52 .

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Krigwin wrote...


I'm sorry to rudely interrupt what is apparently a very heated session of patting yourself on the back, but some of us saw the "Reveal Anora" option as a chance to talk down Cauthrien and chose it specifically in the hopes of a peaceful resolution, only to be immediately betrayed by Anora.

So what you're saying is..

Maria Caliban wrote...

Others came in with different expectations, and when they pick the ‘screw Anora’ option, they‘re surprised at what looks like a backstabbing.

That you came in with difference expections, and when you picked that option were surprised at Anora backstabbing you.

inorite?
Geez people, Maria is right here. If you betray Anora, why do you expect better? You can lay down your arms and get captured without revealing Anora. <_<

[ReubenLiew]

There seems to be a terrible amount of players who seem to adhere to the Paladin archetype...