88 réponses à ce sujet

[Bob the Insane]

I agree that the comic did not really say much other than demonstrate the power of Morrigan...

But I don't understand why the Templars have to be anything other than church bully boys if that is how they are defined in this world. I don't understand why they should necessarily be portrayed in a good light?

Modifié par Bob the Insane, 24 octobre 2009 - 02:30 .

[Theronyll Itholien]

I stick with my opinion about the comic: It's shallow. Nice art, meaningless story.

[Lucy Glitter]

Well, I personally think it's great. It offers a unique insight into the templars, as well as the dark, bloody background of the Witch of the Wilds.

[Theronyll Itholien]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Well, I personally think it's great. It offers a unique insight into the templars, as well as the dark, bloody background of the Witch of the Wilds.

What insight are you talking about!?! If there's one thing this comic doesn't offer, its insight.

Edit/Add: Hence it being shallow.

Modifié par Theronyll Itholien, 23 octobre 2009 - 11:23 .

[Lucy Glitter]

Because showing Templars off as being corrupt isn't insightful? What are you talking about, Theronyll?

[Herr Uhl]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Because showing Templars off as being corrupt isn't insightful? What are you talking about, Theronyll?

I agree, the templar-defenders that say that templars don't act like that because they say they don't.
Why wouldn't they act like that?

[Lucy Glitter]

Herr Uhl wrote...

I agree, the templar-defenders that say that templars don't act like that because they say they don't.
Why wouldn't they act like that?

That... was confusing. 

In any case, as I stated before, I personally really, really like it and I think it is insightful and interesting. 

[Herr Uhl]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

That... was confusing. 

Now that I read it it actually is, yes. What I meant was that some people seem to think that templars can't be bad guys and that they are just being portrayed in a bad light. Why? Because they say so.

On another note, I thought that the battle was kind of anticlimactic. I had high hopes for Ser Buckethead  

[-Skorpious-]

Now that I read it it actually is, yes. What I meant was that some people seem to think that templars can't be bad guys and that they are just being portrayed in a bad light. Why? Because they say so.

On another note, I thought that the battle was kind of anticlimactic. I had high hopes for Ser Buckethead  

Nah, ser redshirt proved that not all Templar's all overzealous believers.

My criticism wasn't based on the Templar's being brutal, but rather that their entire unit lasted mere seconds against Morrigan. Furthermore, they did kill the woman they assumed to be a witch, an act that they would probably not mind committing. However, when facing a true mage they get slaughtered.

Like I said in my previous post - the Templar's were shown to be arrogant foot-soldiers. In reality they should be considered arrogant elite warriors who actually know how to hold their own in battle. After all, not everyone can waltz in and join the order of the Templar's correct? There is (I assume) a standard on how well a potential member can fight before joining their unit.

Before I begin ranting my point remains - the Templar's were shown to be to weak, especially compared to the official lore released about their fighting prowess.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 24 octobre 2009 - 12:13 .

[Lucy Glitter]

That's the point entirely. They are said to be the good guys, defending evil demons from entering their world. Being portrayed as... malicious is interesting. It's not entirely a shock that someone who upholds the "law" is corrupt, no, that isn't the point. I believe the point is to show just how far some men go, how far they sink past better judgement. I wasn't going, "WOW SOME GOOD GUY IS ACTUALLY BAD?!"



It's about the individual, not the power they represent.

[Ecaiki]

See everyone, all Morrigan wants is a hug!

I think the comic is pointing out the Templar aren't all they think they are.  Sure they're the stuff of nightmares for a leashed circle magi, but against someone with real power they are still just mortals.

[Theronyll Itholien]

Let us judge the comic again once we've played the game and know more about them. Right now I think this stuff is shallow and basically utter nonsense. To me, when people say the comic is awesome and insightful it prompts the word 'fanboy/-girl' in my mind.

Sure, we now know Templars can be corrupt and are noobs against a real thread (until the game shows me otherwise, however, I'll deny that assertion.). Some might call that "Insightful". But whoop-dee-doo. I need more than a corrupt Mr. Buckethead and a 4 seconds scenario of utter templar annihilation to grant a piece that type of honor.

Modifié par Theronyll Itholien, 24 octobre 2009 - 01:58 .

[Lucy Glitter]

You might want to rethink your wording on that, because that felt like an insult.

(edited word)

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 24 octobre 2009 - 02:24 .

[DocSun]

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

Let us judge the comic again once we've played the game and know more about them. Right now I think this stuff is shallow and basically utter nonsense. To me, when people say the comic is awesome and insightful it prompts the word 'fanboy/-girl' in my mind.

Sure, we now know Templars can be corrupt and are noobs against a real thread (until the game shows me otherwise, however, I'll deny that assertion.). Some might call that "Insightful". But whoop-dee-doo. I need more than a corrupt Mr. Buckethead and a 4 seconds scenario of utter templar annihilation to grant a piece that type of honor.

As the writes of Penny Arcade have said in their own site, they worked with Bioware and know way more about  the game then we do. Bioware would not just put this up on their site if it was completly illogical for templars to act this way. Even in their entry on the Wiki it talks about looking for crazy loyality and strength before looking for morals, because they dont want someone questioning anything they are told. That right there screams religious zelot. They killed a weak woman (mage or not) his comment about being witch now or in a few years time didnt matter... death is what they get. That is very strong insight into the inner workings of the templars. Sure they are suposed to be the Chantry's militant arm but still, they take it to the extreme. Anyone who wont study with the circle is consitered an enemy and worth killing... thats messed up. Seriously take some time and read every entry in the official wiki it will help you understand that this is one of the deeper looks into a hidden truth about the templars and not just artist fantasy.

[haptsonir]

DocSun wrote...
 Anyone who wont study with the circle is consitered an enemy and worth killing... thats messed up.

It's necessary. Anyone with magical potential runs the risk of possession. Tough break for the mages, but it's not the Chantry's fault, and the possibility of demonic engines of destruction running loose makes for a very good argument to defend the Chantry's system.

Seriously take some time and read every entry in the official wiki it will help you understand that this is one of the deeper looks into a hidden truth about the templars and not just artist fantasy.

I don't think the complaint is with templars acting like they do in the comic --corrupt or misguided witch-hunters are a familiar enough trope-- but rather with the characterization being shallow and predictable and with the story being simplistic.

The comic doesn't seem to accomplish much, fails to make a point, if that makes sense.

Modifié par haptsonir, 24 octobre 2009 - 11:48 .

[Bob the Insane]

A little off topic fromt he comic but continuing the Templar discussion, in The Calling the templars were very much painted into the background again appearing to bully apprentice mages and provide an obsticle for hero to navigate around. They also appeared to be entirely unable to prevent the First Enchanter, er.. sorry I am running into spoiler territory there. Lets just say that there is another piece of approved fiction that pains the templars as bullies and yet not particularly effective against powerful mages...

[Shadow_cake]

Besides showing off that people of different ideals (and that mages pwn,) the comic wasn't much of a read. I was hoping the betrayed templar would have been taken away by the witches to be altered or corrupted, like the young mage was corrupted by the older woman (atleast that's how it seemed.)

[Lucy Glitter]

Chris? You seemed to have abandoned the updating over her.



The new page is wonderful.

[Lionfist]

The comic was enjoyable, with a nice gory touch on top. Basically it just shows off a little of the entire "Dragon Age" picture and should be judged so IMO. I mean, I doubt anything happened in there that was so crucial to the plot, it was just atmospheric.

Oh yea, and I can hardly imagine a non zealous, witch-burning, conservative templar, hehe.

Modifié par Lionfist, 25 octobre 2009 - 02:18 .

[Rogue310]

Here's my only real problem with the PA comic, which I thought was both insightful and disturbing. What they show Morrigan doing here, presumably prior to the events of the game, far outstrips what she's likely to be able to do in the game when she joins your party.

Sorry, I know this is not relevant to what everyone else is talking about, but it bothers me. I hate it when the fiction surrounding a game portrays a character that far outstrips his or her ingame potential. It ruins the experience for me a little. It's one thing for Gandalf to face down a Balrog in Tolkien's writing, but what if you played the LOTR game and when you started in the Shire Gandalf could barely cast magic missile? Obviously exaggerating and twisting the situation to prove a point, but hopefully you guys will get my meaning. Giving MY characters abilities that don't translate to MY game breaks the fourth wall.

And as for the main body of this argument... No reason that templars can't be doing evil in the name of good. That's a common trope throughout fiction and human history--the Crusades and Inquisition spring to mind. Remember, these are the guys who demolished the elven civilization for looking at them funny.

Modifié par Rogue310, 26 octobre 2009 - 11:25 .

[Ayeohx]

I liked the comic but I think it really needed a few more pages to fully establish the story. There seemed to be a few panes that jumped too far ahead due to the lack of space. And there was a spot where it really needed to zoom out and show us what was going on. Overall I enjoyed the comic and it accomplished it's task: I want to play so I can see who these guys are.

[HighMoon]

Great ending. Turns out Flemeth really does hold some love for her daughter. Even if it is only to fulfill her own diabolical needs.

[FKSSR]

I think the comic could have had more content. At first, I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be humorous or not. The one templar was very generic without much personality.



At the end, however, I took away the thought that the comic twisted the fantasy ideal that the templars are the heroes and the witches are the generic stereotypes. In this comic, the templar were the "blind" ones, following like sheep. The witches seemed to be the ones with the minds.

[revcasey]

Do we know if these were truly heroic-level templars? If they fell as easily as they did, they must be lower level, to explain it in terms of game mechanics. Another way to look at it is that the Grandmaster of the templars, for example, might have had more success fighting two mages (one of whom is the most powerful non-circle mage in Ferelden). These guys, as far as we know, were peons.



So, basically we don't know if it was even a fair fight, and therefore we don't know any more than we did about the effectiveness of Templars vs. Mages.

[Malanek]

What powers did Morrigan actually show? All she did was command the already animated trees to attack.

For some reason I was under the impression it was a ten page comic so it ended much sooner than I thought it was going to.

I guess the comic showed more to people who hadn't been following the game on the forums. It showed the templars as a sort of dragon age inquisition and they showed both sides of them, the well-meaning and the zealots. They also showed us a glimpse at the relationship between Morrigan and Flemmeth which was new to me. It was only an implication but I really liked the conversation on the last page...

F: My black briar, my maid of thorns.
M: I have pleasured you then. 'Tis a wonder, I shall mark this day.
F: Aha! Even her tongue has a barb.
M: Am I not your daughter?
F: Never moreso than now.
F: You are a perfect creature, and perfect for my purpose.

What is her purpose??? It doesn't sound nice.

Overall I liked it but it was a little drawn out for what it delivered.

Modifié par Malanek999, 27 octobre 2009 - 07:44 .