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M-44 Hammerhead or M35 Mako


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#51
Ronin1325

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Rudy Lis wrote...

Ronin1325 wrote...

Oh, definitely Rudy Lis, the Mako's guns were 'instant on' but the turrent movement is somewhat kludgy.


Kludgy? What's kludgy out there? Traverse fast, unlike ,Panzerkampfwagen Tiger Ausf. E turret (and no one, BTW, precludes you from using same trick - turn hull as well as turret, though I really don't know why you need that) has good elevation (it's not AAA vehicle and it's armament resembles BMP-1 approach other than BMP-2). Yeah, machine gun spread sucked all the way, sure.  


Ronin1325 wrote...

It's hard to say for sure how difficult it would be to track a full-speed Hammerhead, the only way to be sure would be to have an MP PVP game where each vehicle was playable. I'm betting though that the Hammerhead would subjectively look a *lot* faster going by you than it seems to be when flying it.


Hammerhead speed could be measured in Overlord - we've been given distance to certain targets. Check distance, measure time limit and calculate speed.

Also, if modern day (read "outdated in ME universe") Leclerc tank has weapon system allowing it to follow helicopters and reportedly hit them, why Mako cannot? Even in manual control - most of WW2 Triple-A got manual controls and, according to ground attack planes' pilots' memoires were deadliest opponents? I played a lot in OFP/ArmA (and Janes LongbowImage IPB), duel tank vs helicopter could mimic Mako vs Hammerhead, though it require certain remodelling of weapons - current mean projectiles velocity in ArmA2 is 400 ms and they use sort of ballistic trajectory (aka bullet drop). Not so sure for helicopters, even Ka-50 flies sideways not that long - unlike Hammerhead Ka-50 do not deny, but follows laws of physics. But I guess that could be tested. I'm pretty sure that most OFP/ArmA gamers tried to use tank cannons to shot down helicopters. So with certain amount of practice that can be done even without assist.

If you want to test it yourself, Operation Frenchpoint (not misprint, mod for OFP, one of the best by my taste) had Leclerc. Try to fly around it in helicopter. Especially at low altitudes. Even at maximum speed.

Of course someone may object that helicopter isn't Hammerhead and I will agree (backward/sideways flight capabilities are limited, no frontar "sprint"), but so far it is easiest and already available solution.

Hammerhead could win, should it utilise attack helicopters approach - NOE and firing from GREAT distance. In this case Mako has fewer chances, unless it's equipped with some missile warning system and/or anti-missile system (Russians and Israelis use some), in which case Hammerhead has fewer chances - try to avoid kinetic slug flying at that speed. Not sure for Mako without any systems, but I think crew of three, scanning horizon and on adequate terrain, allowing you to hide Mako, plus proper timing for jump could give you some chances to avoid even very agile Hammerhead missiles.

And yes, I tried OFP/ArmA approach for that. :) Without straight-line hypervelocity rounds, uber-agile guided missiles and tank jumps, of course.


Ronin1325 wrote...The Mako's got the Omnigel though, great point, and depending on your supply of it, that might just be the deciding factor.


Three nines of it. Used it couple of times, in my first playthrough, when Ash hid behind Mako from enemy fire.


Well, clearly we have a War Tech afficianado here! (Not said offensively in the least.)

I appreciate the detail with which you approached my points, but we were talking about the vehicles in the game as they are & the limitations of the game engines as they stand. References to real-world tech, other sci-fi or other games doesn't really apply.

The Mako's turret does have a fast traverse time, but especially with a console controller it's just kind of sloppy, more so when zoomed in. YMMV, but I found using a sniper rifle vastly easier than the Mako's zoomed in turret for tracking moving targets.

Good call on calculating the Hammerhead's speed, but again, I was talking about how tracking the Hammerhead would look from the perspective of the Mako *player*, especially if it was zipping by you. Sadly there's really no comparative enemy in ME1 to use as an example as they're all pretty slow relative to the Mako.

Really, the best way for us all to find out how this would work would be to have a MP PVP 'arena' where we could experiment to our heart's content! :happy:  Dunno what the odds of that ever happening are though. :blush:

#52
TheMightyG00sh

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Mako hands down. The memories of slowly driving over a ghost planet whist thinking about life are just to awesome.. and there were Thresher Maws...

#53
avatar2396

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Michel1986 wrote...

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Mako= Manly and awesome.
Hammerhead = gay


Pretty much this, people who said the mako is **** with controls or anything should skip the mass effect games. The controls where amazing and i don't understand all the fuzz about it. :whistle:



avatar2396 wrote...

i preferred the hammerhead. I actually
had an easier time and had no problem dodging enemy fire. Felt the mako
controls were pretty clunky.


You are clunky, the controls from the hammerhead sucked. The mako's controls where perfect,
people like you ****ed it up for Mass Effect 2 <_<:whistle:



Heaven forbid if i have my own opinion. I never openly complained about it so i didnt screw anything up for you. They were different types of vehicles and that was more fun for me.

#54
roflchoppaz

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I'm gonna side with Cortez here and say Hammerhead.

#55
Rudy Lis

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Ronin1325 wrote...

Well, clearly we have a War Tech afficianado here! (Not said offensively in the least.)


According to Allers and some other boards - I'm war nerd. I prefer gun-nut, but, who cares. Image IPB


Ronin1325 wrote...

I appreciate the detail with which you approached my points, but we were talking about the vehicles in the game as they are & the limitations of the game engines as they stand. References to real-world tech, other sci-fi or other games doesn't really apply.


And that argument I like most. Seems logical for terms of calculations, but illogical from "common sense" point - why several technologies are completely absent from ME universe?
Apparently there are no night vision optics (Splinter Cell, OFP), no thermal optics (Splinter Cell, ArmA2:OA), no flashlights (Half-life 1, Halo), no headlights for Mako (AFAIK Halo had them for Warthog).
Well, technically there are NODs (Umbra visor), some thermal (Garrus' visor at least), they even give us scripted flashlight for ME3! But that flashlight has such beam... Are here people from Canada here? If you are, would you mind to tell me are Surefire, 4sevens, Browning, Cabelas or Fenix flashlights present in Canada or not? Not sure why they absent from ME universe. Maybe between modern days and 2183 happened something involving art?


Ronin1325 wrote...

The Mako's turret does have a fast traverse time, but especially with a console controller it's just kind of sloppy, more so when zoomed in. YMMV, but I found using a sniper rifle vastly easier than the Mako's zoomed in turret for tracking moving targets.


If you really need to turn turret fast, why not unzoom? I guess it's done via one key, like on PC. One-two taps, you back to unzoomed, two-tree taps more, you back to zoom. Even if lag for tapping zoom key is that great, why not try to  to keep distance? I barely recall any situation in ME1 when you need to a) fire at fast moving target, B) firing it with zoom. Both statements are bit antagonistic - there are no fast moving targets, the only condition where they could be, only if they move with quite high angular velocity what, in turn, could be achieved only of they are close to you. And if they are close, why you need zoom?


Ronin1325 wrote...

Good call on calculating the Hammerhead's speed, but again, I was talking about how tracking the Hammerhead would look from the perspective of the Mako *player*, especially if it was zipping by you. Sadly there's really no comparative enemy in ME1 to use as an example as they're all pretty slow relative to the Mako.


Calculate speed of both and you got rate of turn at which you have to turn Mako's turret. Then try to calculate maximum rate of turn for Mako's turret and see, is it principally possible for Mako's turret to follow something flying at Hammerhead speed. If it is possible, even for Hammerhead flying around Mako at point blank, then you can drive Mako around something, mimicing Hammerhead flying around you. Or try to track some drones, for start. There are some on Virmire and they could be a bit jerky. Tracking their speed is a bit more tricky, due their behaviour, but that's the best we can do, since you prefer to concentrate only on ME universe.
But I think calculations will do.


Ronin1325 wrote...

Really, the best way for us all to find out how this would work would be to have a MP PVP 'arena' where we could experiment to our heart's content! :happy:  Dunno what the odds of that ever happening are though. :blush:


None. That's about odds. Vehicles, at least Mako, were considered unpopular and I doubt they'll return, guven engine of ME3 that apparently couldn't hande Normandy second deck without uploading (why else there is blue screen?).

So best way for us is to import vehicles into game that allows modding, modify projectiles' velocities and behaviour and give it a trial run. However, limiting Hammerhead locking distance and behaviour could be tricky, at least in those games I'm aware of.

#56
K Le Blanc

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Novel idea since both of them suck like brand new vacuum cleaner, do it the old fashioned way walk



#57
Vanilka

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I prefer the Mako.

 

I can't stand Hammerhead's paper tissue armour and the fact it tries to look like a plane, yet it can stay in the air for like two seconds before it returns back to pathetically floating a bit above the ground. It freezes in extreme environments. It doesn't hover over liquid surface so if you encounter lava or acid, you end up in it if not careful. (The Mako doesn't pretend it can handle these things, at least.) The self-navigating missiles tend to go bonkers with more enemies around. I once got stuck for a really long time with a bunch of flying drones because the self-navigating missiles AVOIDED the targets, probably in favour of some enemies far behind them that I didn't reach yet. It didn't matter how well I aimed. I ended up having to close in on the enemy. A LOT. I was so mad. The only good thing about it is its ability to jump over small chasms, imho.

 

The Mako is definitely not perfect, but it has some decent armour and shields and I have full control over its rather efficient weapons - two of them, in fact.

 

But that's just me anyway.


  • Monica21 et Flaine1996 aiment ceci

#58
aka.700

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With a better armor I would choose the Hammerhead.