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Kai Leng Plots are Awful
Débuté par
Shahadem
, mars 24 2012 06:37
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#177
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 09:21
DeathScepter
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my biggest gripe about ME3 is everything connecting to Cerberus and Kai Leng is bad juju.
- zeypher aime ceci
#178
Posté 01 juillet 2012 - 08:28
Direbunny
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I didn't like Kai Leng very much (he was too final fantasy villain for my tastes) but come on people, saying that whomever came up with him should kill themselves?
Srsly you make me lose faith in humanity even more than Kai Leng did.
Srsly you make me lose faith in humanity even more than Kai Leng did.
#179
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 11:03
ZLurps
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I just finished ME3 for second time and Kai Leng scenes were even worse than I remembered.
I have read the ME novels and Deception kinda made it very difficult to take this character seriously to begin with, but making scenes with Leng mostly quick time events is bad. Character is ruined, well, that happens, but plot armour and general stupidity of scenes where he appears are worst I recall seeing in any BioWare game. I haven't played Dragon Age games though.
I have read the ME novels and Deception kinda made it very difficult to take this character seriously to begin with, but making scenes with Leng mostly quick time events is bad. Character is ruined, well, that happens, but plot armour and general stupidity of scenes where he appears are worst I recall seeing in any BioWare game. I haven't played Dragon Age games though.
#180
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 11:52
Perkocet13
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i always wondered, what happens if you don't do the renegade stab interupt.
Modifié par Perkocet13, 09 juillet 2012 - 11:53 .
#182
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 04:32
DecCylonus
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Kai Leng was actually a crossover character from Dragon Age 2, where all bosses are cheap and immune to everyone's special abilities. He's really the Arishock in disguise.
Sarcasm aside, this is the real reason I hated him. I knew every fight with him would be frustrating because Shepard's and squad's weapons and powers would be nerfed against him. I don't mind dying in an honest challenge, like two YMIR mechs bearing down on me in a small room. I hate dying and reloading multiple times because the developers gave a villain the god mode cheat.
I do like that Bioware made him a nemesis for Shepard like Saren was. The encounters with him should have been written better though. I liked the Thessia plot twist. I think it's good that Shepard gets foiled and doesn't always win. The mechanism was lame though. Better writing would have made that scene more tolerable. Still, I loved the renegade interrupt, and felt no remorse even with my total paragon Shepard.
Sarcasm aside, this is the real reason I hated him. I knew every fight with him would be frustrating because Shepard's and squad's weapons and powers would be nerfed against him. I don't mind dying in an honest challenge, like two YMIR mechs bearing down on me in a small room. I hate dying and reloading multiple times because the developers gave a villain the god mode cheat.
I do like that Bioware made him a nemesis for Shepard like Saren was. The encounters with him should have been written better though. I liked the Thessia plot twist. I think it's good that Shepard gets foiled and doesn't always win. The mechanism was lame though. Better writing would have made that scene more tolerable. Still, I loved the renegade interrupt, and felt no remorse even with my total paragon Shepard.
#183
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 12:16
indianawang
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Just noticed this thread but I absolutely hated kai leng was worst character ever invented unfortunatly tho theres no getting away from him I like legion too much to send him to cerberus I know either way they both die no matter what but unfortunatly have to put up with him as other guy said is too final fantasy type thing or make his uniform green he'd look like the green lantern dc character not really fan of chineese/japanees assasin type characters in games like kai leng ruins it for me but s**t happens nothing can do still think was aweful character tho
#184
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 01:41
WarGriffin
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...The problem with Leng is... You hate him for his lack of character-cause he doesn't have one... his just there- not cause his character is hatable. and it's very obvious they picked a named Novel character they weren't gonna kill and broguth him in as name only.
His included so Shepard has someone to look better then and triumph over. Since the Reaper's have had thier personality stripped so the Catalyst works. Cerberus needs the personal enemy... The problem is
ME3 is Shepard is written as a boring invinceble 80's action Hero...
I realized this during the Jacob mission.
His included so Shepard has someone to look better then and triumph over. Since the Reaper's have had thier personality stripped so the Catalyst works. Cerberus needs the personal enemy... The problem is
ME3 is Shepard is written as a boring invinceble 80's action Hero...
I realized this during the Jacob mission.
#185
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 04:19
capn233
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This last playthrough I noticed that after I returned to Normandy post-Thesia, some of my cereal was missing...ZLurps wrote...
I just finished ME3 for second time and Kai Leng scenes were even worse than I remembered.
#186
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 09:43
All-a-Mort
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That no good, sneaky s.o.b. How's a supersoldier to enjoy his morning cocopops with that kind of wanton thievery going on? Next you'll be telling me he slept in Shepard's bed and didn't change the sheets afterwards.capn233 wrote...
This last playthrough I noticed that after I returned to Normandy post-Thesia, some of my cereal was missing...ZLurps wrote...
I just finished ME3 for second time and Kai Leng scenes were even worse than I remembered.
#187
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 10:23
JaegerBane
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WarGriffin wrote...
The problem is ME3 is Shepard is written as a boring invinceble 80's action Hero...
I realized this during the Jacob mission.
Errr... what was it about that mission that made you think that? The lashings of one-liners like 'Are there any survivors?'
#188
Posté 01 septembre 2012 - 06:22
Locutus_of_BORG
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I did not get this feel at all, either.JaegerBane wrote...
WarGriffin wrote...
The problem is ME3 is Shepard is written as a boring invinceble 80's action Hero...
I realized this during the Jacob mission.
Errr... what was it about that mission that made you think that? The lashings of one-liners like 'Are there any survivors?'
Back on topic, the Kai Leng plot is terrible because Kai Leng is terrible. He is THE WORST kind of Gary-Stu and THE most one-dimensional character in all of ME3. For most of the game he is clad in 10ft.-thick plot armor, meaning that by the time you finally kill him @ CerbHQ, you KNOW that he should've died back at the Citadel.
#189
Posté 02 septembre 2012 - 04:15
WarGriffin
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JaegerBane wrote...
WarGriffin wrote...
The problem is ME3 is Shepard is written as a boring invinceble 80's action Hero...
I realized this during the Jacob mission.
Errr... what was it about that mission that made you think that? The lashings of one-liners like 'Are there any survivors?'
The ending when you have about 50 Cerberus troops shooting at you and not one of the are even grazing the shuttle behind you
Modifié par WarGriffin, 02 septembre 2012 - 04:16 .
#191
Posté 03 septembre 2012 - 05:29
capn233
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The whole ExCerberus Scientists mission actually reminds me the most of The Battle of Hoth from Empire Strikes Back. You are on a cold planet and bad guys in white are there to attack the base full of rebels. You even fire a cannon to clear a path for the transports to get away... and on top of that they do nearly the same line as "the shuttle is away" followed by chears. As for the last cut scene, if you think of them as Stormtroopers, it makes sense that they couldn't hit anything.WarGriffin wrote...
The ending when you have about 50 Cerberus troops shooting at you and not one of the are even grazing the shuttle behind you
#192
Posté 04 septembre 2012 - 01:07
CitizenThom
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Did anyone ever figure out which recessive chromosome in Boba Fett's father's genome is to blame for the stormtroopers' terrible accuracy?
#193
Posté 05 septembre 2012 - 08:27
tomnmillie
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call_it_taxidermy wrote...
As soon as that dainty little ninja blade came out, I knew I had encountered a space douche of epic proportions. I mean really? I have a god damn NANO MACHETE IN MY ARM, COOL GUY. Do the freakin math.
Epic post!
That guy sucked. Cracked me up how much of a bad ass he purportedly was, but he just ran away and recharged his purple barrier. The way he skulked around made me wonder, why does he skulk so? Not even Wiley Coyote skulked like that on his worst skulking days. Wouldn't walking be less of a jack wagon way to move around? Then it struck me, Lo! This is the king of the jack wagons! Then I killed him.
Wonder if stasis can keep him from skulking.
#194
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 04 juin 2013 - 10:14
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
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My 2c
New player here (but not new to series). I love the game in many ways.. Glad I escaped some of the setbacks early players had without DLC. But agreed, Kai Leng is terrible.. and whoever the writer is even moreso. I have no qualms about making the same threats the OP did. lmao. The whole Cerberus thing gets under my skin in many ways (I love all the Reaper stuff, but all Cerberus does is waste 40 hours of my time through the rest of the game) -- and Kai Leng is the pinnacle of this steaming pile of crap. I don't hate the character per se. I hate the writer who actually thought all of this annoyance and railroading would be a good idea. Cerberus and indoctrination had an (very) interesting bit in the story, but man they overdid it.
OTOH, if it's the same writer who wrote the rest of the game too, I forgive them. I mean, there's so much to love about ME3 too. Just not sure if it was enough.
On a sidenote, on my subsequent playthroughs, I don't even bother really playing through any of this. I put it on narrative mode (but set it back in other parts of the game). That's my most damning criticism. That's how much I hate it. And I can usually replay through a lot of stuff. I like exploring games. Cerberus offers no redeeming gameplay or replay value whatsoever. None. Zilch. It's only worth getting through since the plots require I make some of these steps.
My 2c
New player here (but not new to series). I love the game in many ways.. Glad I escaped some of the setbacks early players had without DLC. But agreed, Kai Leng is terrible.. and whoever the writer is even moreso. I have no qualms about making the same threats the OP did. lmao. The whole Cerberus thing gets under my skin in many ways (I love all the Reaper stuff, but all Cerberus does is waste 40 hours of my time through the rest of the game) -- and Kai Leng is the pinnacle of this steaming pile of crap. I don't hate the character per se. I hate the writer who actually thought all of this annoyance and railroading would be a good idea. Cerberus and indoctrination had an (very) interesting bit in the story, but man they overdid it.
OTOH, if it's the same writer who wrote the rest of the game too, I forgive them. I mean, there's so much to love about ME3 too. Just not sure if it was enough.
On a sidenote, on my subsequent playthroughs, I don't even bother really playing through any of this. I put it on narrative mode (but set it back in other parts of the game). That's my most damning criticism. That's how much I hate it. And I can usually replay through a lot of stuff. I like exploring games. Cerberus offers no redeeming gameplay or replay value whatsoever. None. Zilch. It's only worth getting through since the plots require I make some of these steps.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 04 juin 2013 - 10:29 .
#195
Posté 04 juin 2013 - 10:59
capn233
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Kai Leng was actually not too bad when he was originally introduced in Retribution. His characterization got worse in whatever the last one was called, and his character was nearly completely unnecessary in ME3.
#196
Posté 05 juin 2013 - 03:30
StarcloudSWG
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StreetMagic wrote...
/necro
My 2c
New player here (but not new to series). I love the game in many ways.. Glad I escaped some of the setbacks early players had without DLC. But agreed, Kai Leng is terrible.. and whoever the writer is even moreso. I have no qualms about making the same threats the OP did. lmao. The whole Cerberus thing gets under my skin in many ways (I love all the Reaper stuff, but all Cerberus does is waste 40 hours of my time through the rest of the game) -- and Kai Leng is the pinnacle of this steaming pile of crap. I don't hate the character per se. I hate the writer who actually thought all of this annoyance and railroading would be a good idea. Cerberus and indoctrination had an (very) interesting bit in the story, but man they overdid it.
OTOH, if it's the same writer who wrote the rest of the game too, I forgive them. I mean, there's so much to love about ME3 too. Just not sure if it was enough.
On a sidenote, on my subsequent playthroughs, I don't even bother really playing through any of this. I put it on narrative mode (but set it back in other parts of the game). That's my most damning criticism. That's how much I hate it. And I can usually replay through a lot of stuff. I like exploring games. Cerberus offers no redeeming gameplay or replay value whatsoever. None. Zilch. It's only worth getting through since the plots require I make some of these steps.
There was a team of writers who wrote the game. Each writer had different characters they were responsible for, and different missions, and different plots.
Kai Leng was introduced by Mac Walters in the Mass Effect novels. Mac Walters wrote Kai Leng for Mass Effect 3. Mac Walters was also primarily responsible for writing the original version of the ending.
What amazes me is that Mac Walters, who ALSO wrote GARRUS, came up with that crap.
#197
Posté 05 juin 2013 - 06:50
Genraku
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First time I fought Kai Leng on Thessia the cutscene never started so I just kept burning him down. I spent nearly 15 minutes with him having 2 health pips left before I alt tabbed and found out there was supposed to be a cutscene. I was... "Slightly miffed"at it taking a *CUTSCENE* to give Leng the supposed upper hand. I don't have any hate for Kai Leng, the best he can achieve from me is contempt. I would have preferred his death be Shep shooting him nonchallantly as he walks into TIM's office without so much as looking or acknowledging his presence. Kai Leng would Die without anyone caring enough to notice.
That said, I agree that he didn't get enough screen time to establish him as a legitimate threat. Let him harass you through various parts of the game, impeding your progress on Mars, let him fight a few Alliance marines as Shep tries to catch up, or have him pick a few C-sec officers apart on the citadel. Establish him as a constant threat, you can let it build, having him fight other people but just narrowly missing a fight with Shep, and give him a reason to start taunting Shep about it. He knows Shep worked for TIM and is also N7, maybe he broke one of Shep's training records at the N7 program and wants to rub it in to get Shep off his/her game. Instead of coming alone to Thessia he brings both phantoms and group of nemesis, maybe the nemesis are firing from teh gunship or from far enoguh away that Shep can't easily neutralize them, allowing them to pin Shep with Sniper fire when Leng needs a breather. Meanwhile the Phantoms can run interference on Shep and pssibly sacrificing themselves to give Leng a chance to escape with the data. His ability get away would be established by the previous encounters and you could then cap it off by cornering him in TIM's office. From there he can't run anymore and you get to have a REAL fight with this guy who has managed to kill Allaince soldiers, C-sec officers, and dodge you while doing it.
Honestly though, I almost would have preferred zombified/retconning Tela Vasir or Saren back into the Villain's role, turning around on thessia to see not Kai leng walking up but Saren rounding the corner, flanked by a pair of marauders and a smirk on his face. Tela Vasir even had less screentime than Kai leng but still managed to feel like a more legitimate threat. I could be wrong though, I would have liked to trade Tela Vasir for both Jacob and James Vega as a squadmate.
That said, I agree that he didn't get enough screen time to establish him as a legitimate threat. Let him harass you through various parts of the game, impeding your progress on Mars, let him fight a few Alliance marines as Shep tries to catch up, or have him pick a few C-sec officers apart on the citadel. Establish him as a constant threat, you can let it build, having him fight other people but just narrowly missing a fight with Shep, and give him a reason to start taunting Shep about it. He knows Shep worked for TIM and is also N7, maybe he broke one of Shep's training records at the N7 program and wants to rub it in to get Shep off his/her game. Instead of coming alone to Thessia he brings both phantoms and group of nemesis, maybe the nemesis are firing from teh gunship or from far enoguh away that Shep can't easily neutralize them, allowing them to pin Shep with Sniper fire when Leng needs a breather. Meanwhile the Phantoms can run interference on Shep and pssibly sacrificing themselves to give Leng a chance to escape with the data. His ability get away would be established by the previous encounters and you could then cap it off by cornering him in TIM's office. From there he can't run anymore and you get to have a REAL fight with this guy who has managed to kill Allaince soldiers, C-sec officers, and dodge you while doing it.
Honestly though, I almost would have preferred zombified/retconning Tela Vasir or Saren back into the Villain's role, turning around on thessia to see not Kai leng walking up but Saren rounding the corner, flanked by a pair of marauders and a smirk on his face. Tela Vasir even had less screentime than Kai leng but still managed to feel like a more legitimate threat. I could be wrong though, I would have liked to trade Tela Vasir for both Jacob and James Vega as a squadmate.
Modifié par Genraku, 05 juin 2013 - 06:52 .
#198
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 juin 2013 - 12:32
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
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StarcloudSWG wrote...
StreetMagic wrote...
/necro
My 2c
New player here (but not new to series). I love the game in many ways.. Glad I escaped some of the setbacks early players had without DLC. But agreed, Kai Leng is terrible.. and whoever the writer is even moreso. I have no qualms about making the same threats the OP did. lmao. The whole Cerberus thing gets under my skin in many ways (I love all the Reaper stuff, but all Cerberus does is waste 40 hours of my time through the rest of the game) -- and Kai Leng is the pinnacle of this steaming pile of crap. I don't hate the character per se. I hate the writer who actually thought all of this annoyance and railroading would be a good idea. Cerberus and indoctrination had an (very) interesting bit in the story, but man they overdid it.
OTOH, if it's the same writer who wrote the rest of the game too, I forgive them. I mean, there's so much to love about ME3 too. Just not sure if it was enough.
On a sidenote, on my subsequent playthroughs, I don't even bother really playing through any of this. I put it on narrative mode (but set it back in other parts of the game). That's my most damning criticism. That's how much I hate it. And I can usually replay through a lot of stuff. I like exploring games. Cerberus offers no redeeming gameplay or replay value whatsoever. None. Zilch. It's only worth getting through since the plots require I make some of these steps.
There was a team of writers who wrote the game. Each writer had different characters they were responsible for, and different missions, and different plots.
Kai Leng was introduced by Mac Walters in the Mass Effect novels. Mac Walters wrote Kai Leng for Mass Effect 3. Mac Walters was also primarily responsible for writing the original version of the ending.
What amazes me is that Mac Walters, who ALSO wrote GARRUS, came up with that crap.
Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I understand how writing teams work a little, but didn't know much about the team here. Interesting that the same guy wrote Garrus.. He's one of my favorite characters. He helps give the game a sort of "buddy cops" movie feel (for my male Shepherd at least).
Just to be fair though, I hate Cerberus in this game as a whole. Not just the character of Kai Leng. They're all mindless idiots who don't know what's good for them. Kai Leng is just the tip of that iceberg. They've all gone full retard. There's not much anyone can write about that. It is what it is.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 05 juin 2013 - 12:59 .
#199
Posté 05 juin 2013 - 08:11
TheMyron
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#200
Posté 05 juin 2013 - 08:39
conjmk
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Gunslinger01101 wrote...
But its so satisfying when you get to break his stupid sword, stab his stupid face, and say "for thane."
Ehh, not really.
I thought it was pretty ridiculous that the whole team is just staring off into space (literally) while KL crawls and makes all the grunting sounds in the world and shep doesn't notice (or pretends not to notice) until the last minute he gets some kind of slow motion spidey sense. I mean come on.
Modifié par conjmk, 05 juin 2013 - 08:39 .
