1807 réponses à ce sujet

[eternalnightmare13]

Allattar1 wrote...


An interesting question is, if you do not accept Morrigans offer, does the ending still mention bands of Darkspawn running round, disorganised but still a threat?

.

I didn't accept her offer, and sacrificed myself.  In the end it did mention darkspawn running around unorganized as a general threat to travelers/deep roads etc.  Think it said something about some slightly intelligent darkspawn had some loosely organized but not to the level of a blight.  Too bad we didn't see any of these in game.

[Walina]

Yes, it's same whatever you die or live.

Also assuming that Morrigans child a old god would be evil and the doom
of all is kinda stretching it...How do you know it would be evil? Maybe
it would be for the good of everything and not its downfall.

You've a few reasons to say no to the ritual :

1) Morrigan will use the child body to be her new body like her mother did.
2) the old god is one of the teveinter mage who became the first darkspawn but they were sealed by god, sorry to think that his spirit was not hit by amnesia and cleaned his soul from all thse bad things he done.
3) the baby can be born like an innocent soul and then become the futur hero of Bioware...

If it's option 3 then be happy men to have been dumped your futur child will still be a hero so that's why you can't say with Morrigan, you won't fit in the picture in the game since it will be hard to generate your pc when he is old.

Modifié par Walina, 03 décembre 2009 - 01:21 .

[wardog77]

You've got to admit, it's more than a little suspicious:

Flemeth trains Morrigan in the ritual, saves your life, and sends her along with you for the express purposes of doing this ritual. From what we know about Flemeth she isn't exactly the charitable type and the only thing I could see she would gain from this is the spirit in the child.

She announced it only to you at the last minute and didn't tell anyone else about it. Furthermore, she will disappear afterward and raise the child on her own and never be found again.

So we have a powerful mage (whether or not she is actually Flemeth is irrelevant) who has full control, in secret, with no accountability of an extremely powerful entity.

Surely no good can come of this.

[Allattar1]

Walina wrote...

Yes, it's same whatever you die or live.

Also assuming that Morrigans child a old god would be evil and the doom
of all is kinda stretching it...How do you know it would be evil? Maybe
it would be for the good of everything and not its downfall.

You've a few reasons to say no to the ritual :

1) Morrigan will use the child body to be her new body like her mother did.

Where did you find that out?  No where in the game does it even hint that possibility.  Whilst it could be a plausible outcome of the story I doubt it very much.  This is conjecture.

2) the old god is one of the teveinter mage who became the first darkspawn but they were sealed by god, sorry to think that his spirit was not hit by amnesia and cleaned his soul from all thse bad things he done.
No, the Tevinter Imperium was worshipping old gods before the Mages tried to join them in the golden city.

3) the baby can be born like an innocent soul and then become the futur hero of Bioware...

Possibly, I believe this one is more likely

If it's option 3 then be happy men to have been dumped your futur child will still be a hero so that's why you can't say with Morrigan, you won't fit in the picture in the game since it will be hard to generate your pc when he is old.

[Alex Savchovsky]

Walina wrote...

You've a few reasons to say no to the ritual :

1) Morrigan will use the child body to be her new body like her mother did.
2) the old god is one of the teveinter mage who became the first darkspawn but they were sealed by god, sorry to think that his spirit was not hit by amnesia and cleaned his soul from all thse bad things he done.
3) the baby can be born like an innocent soul and then become the futur hero of Bioware...

If it's option 3 then be happy men to have been dumped your futur child will still be a hero so that's why you can't say with Morrigan, you won't fit in the picture in the game since it will be hard to generate your pc when he is old.

1) Why would she? Even if she did, this would be a waste of the old god's soul.
2) You didn't read carefully. The old gods are not tevinter mages and never were.
3) And that is a reason to decline because...?

[Allattar1]

How do you know what Flemeth is or isnt?



You only have stories told by her Daughter, she may or may not be an ancient witch, and she can turn into a Dragon. (admittedly it all points to being an ancient witch but may not be true.)



She speaks in riddles, and generally seems as batty as a cave that Bruce Wayne would happily call home.



It may be true that Flemeth had nefarious plans for the God child, it may equally be true that Morrigan is subverting those plans for other reasons, one of which is not for her own power but to save the people she considers freinds.



It may be true that there plans all along involve saving the world.



I consider it true that this may or may not lead to a god child character being the hero in parts 2 or 3.

[Shurelia]

The child with the power of a god reminded me of Baldur's Gate. Maybe it's Bhaal's origin or something ? That'll be pretty fun xD

[Walina]

1) Why would she? Even if she did, this would be a waste of the old god's soul.[/b)

Why won't she ? She is not a nun, why would she just rise the kid like that without having any motive to ? If she had any sense of real motherhood, she won't leave male PC because wanting being a mother is rarely without wanting a family.

That's a possibility, there is no reason that she won't do it.



[b]2) You didn't read carefully. The old gods are not tevinter mages and never were.

You should read more other topics because many people thinks they are the archedemons and the one most recent topic about it is > http://social.biowar...7/index/367479' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/367479



[b]3) And that is a reason to decline because...?

You elt betrayed because the woman you loed kinda betryed you.

[biffmastah]

The problem with Morrigan is that her entire time with you culminates in trying to manipulate you into doing something that is completely for her benefit. Just listen to her comments throughout the game at how you should take the path to power (i.e. anvil of the void) and how you should avoid self-sacrifice (i.e. assisting redcliffe with their undead issues). She even insists that you kill her mother for fear of her own life (I did kill Flemeth, for the record, but only because I felt she was evil). Why would she suddenly have a change of heart and do this "dark ritual" to benefit others? It is completely self-serving. Even if the Old God turned out to be cleansed of the taint, given Morrigan's character, it would undoubtedly be twisted to her gain, with great risk (i.e. re-corruption of the Old God through exposure to darkspawn). All for what? To see your character alive after the battle?

I personally denied morrigan, and insisted that alistair rule as king. I have never been as affected by a game, or any form of electronic media (movies or otherwise), as I was when this game ended. I couldn't believe it - I had died to ensure that the menace was destroyed forever. I was immortalized in the ranks of the grey warden's, and given a hero's memorial.

I just think it's funny how people are so wrapped up in preserving themselves that they are willing to categorize morrigan's option as "not-risky" or "trustworthy". Those two characteristics never applied to her in game, so why re-write the nature of her character and risk another potential blight just to save your hide for a few more years?

Besides, almost every other game in history ends with the hero immerging unscathed and shiny - this was a necessary (not just different, but VERY necessary) change of pace.

Modifié par biffmastah, 03 décembre 2009 - 02:29 .

[Mesecina]

Walina wrote...

2) You didn't read carefully. The old gods are not tevinter mages and never were.
You should read more other topics because many people thinks they are the archedemons and the one most recent topic about it is > http://social.biowar...47/index/367479

I once linked you the DA wiki page in another thread but since you obviously haven't read it I'm gonna give you a (hopefully) short summary of what Old God is or isn't as you still keep spreading a very wrong idea about it

An [b]Old God is one of the beings that were worshipped by a significant number of Thedosians, specifically the mages of the Imperium, thousands of years ago. The mages worshipped them in the form of dragons. Legend holds that it was the Old Gods who initially taught mages how to use magic. Some believe Archdemons to be the sleeping Old Gods corrupted by the darkspawn.
The Chantry teaches that the Old Gods were false. They turned mortals from worship of the Maker, recognized as "the First Sin". As a result, the Maker imprisoned them underground. Their minds continued to roam the Fade like any other dreaming individual's mind would, and they were able to contact the Magisters and teach them to use magic in hope that the magisters might free them. It was for this reason that the magisters entered the Golden City to usurp the Maker's throne, inadvertently causing the First Blight.
The Architect describes the call of the Old Gods as a "terribly beautiful sound". He
goes on to consider darkspawn existence and their pursuit for the
ancient dragons as a never-ending aspiration towards a perfection they
can never have, as it is corrupted in the instant they touch it.


Here hope that clears it up a bit

Modifié par Mesecina, 03 décembre 2009 - 02:36 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

Walina wrote...

Why won't she ? She is not a nun, why would she just rise the kid like that without having any motive to ? If she had any sense of real motherhood, she won't leave male PC because wanting being a mother is rarely without wanting a family.
That's a possibility, there is no reason that she won't do it.

Actually, there are reasons.
* She could use just about any body if she wanted to possess a new one. However, she went on a potentially very dangerous trip with the Wardens just to conceive the baby bearing the old god's soul. It seems like a lot of wasted effort to me, if she simply wanted to possess its body. Morrigan is the first one to state that you're wasting your time when you do - and despite some opinions here, she's not that inconsistent.
* She didn't want her body possessed by Flemmeth for sure. And given her opinion on compassion being a weakness, she seemed strangely reluctant to do some things that she didn't want happening on her. Like turning into a golem or being slain by templars.
So... I really don't think she has exactly this in mind. Doesn't fit her.

Walina wrote...
You should read more other topics because many people thinks they are the archedemons and the one most recent topic about it is > http://social.biowar...7/index/367479' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/367479

Speculations so far.

Walina wrote...However, these are speculations only. 

You elt betrayed because the woman you loed kinda betryed you.

If you felt betrayed, that's a valid reason indeed. Although it's still emotional - and I agree on that decision being too important to be taken purely on emotional reasons.

Modifié par Alex Savchovsky, 03 décembre 2009 - 02:39 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Allattar1 wrote...

Thats still only your opinion.
AND your not the writer of this game, so there is no need to get a little hysterical over Morrigans offer being right/wrong.

No, that is not my oppinion, that is a fact. That is common sense and pure logic.

No one yet has tackled this in the following posts, cause they can't.  Note that Morrigna never said what the child will be used for. Cleansing all the other Old gods and stopping the whole blight? Where did you get that from? Thare isn't even a smallest HINT at that. That is just your wishfull thinking. So insted of fantasizing about what MIGHT be possible and about what we don't know, how about focusing on what we do for a change.

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

You're too confident on your "undeniable" facts and logic.
For one, the risk is not as big as it might seem. Why? Simple - because you already defeated that very archdemon whose soul is supposed to purify and seek refuge in the child. Yes, there could be a war and many dead again. On the other hand, the power of an old god might be enough to stop the blights without having to repeat the blight - war - kill the archdemon cycle - eventually saving more lives that you risk. You consider that risk too big. But there were choices of about similar magnitude in the game before. For example, whether or not to save the Circle of Magi. Another abomination attack could also lead to the death of thousands, right? Really, your character is pretty much forced to make choices that change the world through the entire game. And you're telling me about the last one "nah, it's evil to take it, it could change the world". Seriously? 

Read a bit on logic, cause you clearly ain't using none. Yes, what I stated are undeniable facts.

Again - where do you get that Morrigan plans to use the child to end the blights copletely?
And yes, the risk is too big. How many people died during this Blight? and you want to possibly let anotehr one loose? For what? Some "maby this might happen" good outcome that you have NO confirmation whatsoever that it's even possible? How do you know that the child might end the Blight? Where is it mentioned or hinted ingame? How do you know what Morrigna plans to do with it? Knowing Morrigan, I doubt the child would have much empathy after she raised it.

Face it - you don't know. And you're taking a massive gamble with other people's lives. And all of that redicolous bravado about "I kileld it before, I can do it again." That only works cause it's a game. You KNOW you will win in the end. If your'e roleplaying a real character, then he would approach every battle with a mindset that it could be his last. He wouldn't take "I'll just kill it again" as a casual remark.

The IMMEDIATE risk is you are DEAD after 'killing' the Archdemon.  Then what? It hasn't worked the PREVIOUS 4 times to end the blight forever.  Its INSANE to think that doing the SAME thing over and over will lead to a different result.

Actually it has worked. All of the previous archdemons have been removed permanently.
You might want to get some facts straight before you start debating with the big boys.


So I wonder...when will anyone actually manage to mage a good argument. My 2 main arguments still stand:
1. Killing the archdemon is a far safer course to take for everyone - especially the baby.
2. Everything you know about the ritual is from Morrigan. While your character can trust her, her words are not fact. Some happenings and parts of fluff on the other hand, are.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 03 décembre 2009 - 02:49 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

* She could use just about any body if she wanted to possess a new one. However, she went on a potentially very dangerous trip with the Wardens just to conceive the baby bearing the old god's soul. It seems like a lot of wasted effort to me, if she simply wanted to possess its body. Morrigan is the first one to state that you're wasting your time when you do - and despite some opinions here, she's not that inconsistent.

Actually it makes perfect sense. If she wants power (and David confirmed she is incredibly power-houngry) and doesn't care much about kids (see her reaction to children. She would happily kil lConnor and hte kids in the Circle), it makes perfect sense for her to posses a child with the power of a Old god. That would make her even more powerfull. And the more powerfull the host, the easier it is to posses.

[biffmastah]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Allattar1 wrote...

Thats still only your opinion.
AND your not the writer of this game, so there is no need to get a little hysterical over Morrigans offer being right/wrong.

No, that is not my oppinion, that is a fact. That is common sense and pure logic.

No one yet has tackled this in the following posts, cause they can't.  Note that Morrigna never said what the child will be used for. Cleansing all the other Old gods and stopping the whole blight? Where did you get that from? Thare isn't even a smallest HINT at that. That is just your wishfull thinking. So insted of fantasizing about what MIGHT be possible and about what we don't know, how about focusing on what we do for a change.

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

You're too confident on your "undeniable" facts and logic.
For one, the risk is not as big as it might seem. Why? Simple - because you already defeated that very archdemon whose soul is supposed to purify and seek refuge in the child. Yes, there could be a war and many dead again. On the other hand, the power of an old god might be enough to stop the blights without having to repeat the blight - war - kill the archdemon cycle - eventually saving more lives that you risk. You consider that risk too big. But there were choices of about similar magnitude in the game before. For example, whether or not to save the Circle of Magi. Another abomination attack could also lead to the death of thousands, right? Really, your character is pretty much forced to make choices that change the world through the entire game. And you're telling me about the last one "nah, it's evil to take it, it could change the world". Seriously? 

Read a bit on logic, cause you clearly ain't using none. Yes, what I stated are undeniable facts.

Again - where do you get that Morrigan plans to use the child to end the blights copletely?
And yes, the risk is too big. How many people died during this Blight? and you want to possibly let anotehr one loose? For what? Some "maby this might happen" good outcome that you have NO confirmation whatsoever that it's even possible? How do you know that the child might end the Blight? Where is it mentioned or hinted ingame? How do you know what Morrigna plans to do with it? Knowing Morrigan, I doubt the child would have much empathy after she raised it.

Face it - you don't know. And you're taking a massive gamble with other people's lives. And all of that redicolous bravado about "I kileld it before, I can do it again." That only works cause it's a game. You KNOW you will win in the end. If your'e roleplaying a real character, then he would approach every battle with a mindset that it could be his last. He wouldn't take "I'll just kill it again" as a casual remark.

The IMMEDIATE risk is you are DEAD after 'killing' the Archdemon.  Then what? It hasn't worked the PREVIOUS 4 times to end the blight forever.  Its INSANE to think that doing the SAME thing over and over will lead to a different result.

Actually it has worked. All of the previous archdemons have been removed permanently.
You might want to get some facts straight before you start debating with the big boys.


So I wonder...when will anyone actually manage to mage a good argument. My 2 main arguments still stand:
1. Killing the archdemon is a far safer course to take for everyone - especially the baby.
2. Everything you know about the ritual is from Morrigan. While your character can trust her, her words are not fact. Some happenings and parts of fluff on the other hand, are.

I totally agree with what you said about the risk to the baby. If for no other reason, you are granting the potential for immense suffering on a child that has no choice in the matter. And again, for what? So you can grow old and gray in a rocking chair while slipping into delerium? Every one bites the dust in the end, and what better way to go than in personally slaying the greatest threat to mankind?

I think it's funny to see how a person's outlook on real life affects them in this game. They are so comfortable taking short term gain without understanding long-term consequences. We are victims of our material world, but it's nice to see some folks still around with a traditional view of selflessness.

[mrao]

biffmastah wrote...


I think it's funny to see how a person's outlook on real life affects them in this game. They are so comfortable taking short term gain without understanding long-term consequences. We are victims of our material world, but it's nice to see some folks still around with a traditional view of selflessness.

Not everyone inserts themselves into their characters when they play these games. I fully understand that the ritual is selfish and short sighted. However, my PC was in love with Morrigan.  Perhaps he is holding on to some naive notion that there is good in Morrigan. Or maybe the journey up to that point has corrupted him more than he knows, and he was in the end doing it to save his own skin. What I do know is that it will make an interesting story, and I can't wait to see how it plays out.

The entire situation goes along very well with Wynne's talk with you about love being selfish.

Modifié par mrao, 03 décembre 2009 - 03:09 .

[Allattar1]

The problem Lotion is you are trying to justify your point of view which is just as much conjecture as anything else.



YOU believe that Morrigan is creating some great evil and YOU have constructed some logical fallacies to prove that to yourself, and then flat out refuse to acknowledge any other suggestion. ie, your getting hysterical trying to prove you are right, about a computer game.

The only fact here is we do not know.



I believe you have misunderstood/misinterpreted the character of Morrigan. Which is my right to believe and state that, just as much as you believe she is the devil incarnate.



We have given you plenty of logical reasons why it isn't necessarily the doom you think it is.



But here is a nice logical question for you.



For what point would Morrigan create a godchild, if her intention was creating another blight.

Face it there is one already going on, so creating a godchild that would create another blight is just stupid. Morrigans character isn't stupid, her character is very very pragmatic, definately not stupid.



This is the point you have failed to address.



What you have done though is create a false dilemma that you have bought into. The false dilemma being, the action was good, or the action was evil. Then constructed an argument for why it couldn't be good and therefore must be evil.



This game, this story, has never shown anything to be so black and white. To end it on a note of clearly good vs bad is out of character for the writers.



So I am telling you that you have bought into your own false dilemma and there is a lot more here than you have understood.



In terms of the decision?

My character had a lot of faith that Morrigan knew what she was doing. My "Character" understood her personality and knows she is not about releasing vast evils on to the world. Lets face it Flemeth was never about that as well. She was a shapechanger who could change into a dragon. She certainly had the power to be very very evil and destructive if she wished. Instead she hid in a swamp away from people and only dealt with those who came to find her and kill her. That she reacted to it as a game, well its more like a cat with a mouse, but there you go.

[Allattar1]

Finally I should point out, that as its a rpg your character can decide whether the offer is a selfish act or if there is more to it.



The truth of it I am certain will be revealed.



Also I am writing this to point out that the aim here is not to convince diehards like Lotion or Biff. On forums those types of character can never change their view. Hopefully at least my words will convince others to make there own decisions and not buy into a falce dilemma.

[Nirvana_Dest]

Personally I feel the "dark ritual" is a lead in to a future new chapter in the story. Also, since I went to such great lengths romancing Allistair and getting him to name me Queen at his side if either one of us died then it would have ruined all my hard work!

[Alex Savchovsky]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Actually it makes perfect sense. If she wants power (and David confirmed she is incredibly power-houngry) and doesn't care much about kids (see her reaction to children. She would happily kil lConnor and hte kids in the Circle), it makes perfect sense for her to posses a child with the power of a Old god. That would make her even more powerfull. And the more powerfull the host, the easier it is to posses.

First of all, you have ZERO evidence that possessing the kid would grant her that power. In the game it is suggested that possession destroys the original inhabitant of the body - oh, hey, but that's the old god. So what do you suggest, that his power has "leaked" into the body? Now it is you who starts a theory based on nothing.
Second, I can't recall a single act or opinion showing that Morrigan is power-hungry. The closest one is her wanting Flemeth's grimoire, but this could be simply a will to defend herself, since she only wanted it after she found out about Flemeth planning to possess her.

Btw. Yes, I do not know her motives to want the child. Neither do you. You consider the risk too great, I do not. It's called personal opinion.

[Silensfurtim]

lets just all hope that a future DLC ties up the lose ends. the dark ritual ending obviously screams for continuation anyway.

[Walina]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Actually it makes perfect sense. If she wants power (and David confirmed she is incredibly power-houngry) and doesn't care much about kids (see her reaction to children. She would happily kil lConnor and hte kids in the Circle), it makes perfect sense for her to posses a child with the power of a Old god. That would make her even more powerfull. And the more powerfull the host, the easier it is to posses.

First of all, you have ZERO evidence that possessing the kid would grant her that power. In the game it is suggested that possession destroys the original inhabitant of the body - oh, hey, but that's the old god. So what do you suggest, that his power has "leaked" into the body? Now it is you who starts a theory based on nothing.
Second, I can't recall a single act or opinion showing that Morrigan is power-hungry. The closest one is her wanting Flemeth's grimoire, but this could be simply a will to defend herself, since she only wanted it after she found out about Flemeth planning to possess her.

Btw. Yes, I do not know her motives to want the child. Neither do you. You consider the risk too great, I do not. It's called personal opinion.

Zero evidence mean that Mr. Gaider is wrong ? XD
Come on, you just don't wanna see in Morrigan a power hungry just admit it

[Silensfurtim]

will someone invite David Gaider here XD

[biffmastah]

mrao wrote...

biffmastah wrote...


I think it's funny to see how a person's outlook on real life affects them in this game. They are so comfortable taking short term gain without understanding long-term consequences. We are victims of our material world, but it's nice to see some folks still around with a traditional view of selflessness.

Not everyone inserts themselves into their characters when they play these games. I fully understand that the ritual is selfish and short sighted. However, my PC was in love with Morrigan.  Perhaps he is holding on to some naive notion that there is good in Morrigan. Or maybe the journey up to that point has corrupted him more than he knows, and he was in the end doing it to save his own skin. What I do know is that it will make an interesting story, and I can't wait to see how it plays out.

The entire situation goes along very well with Wynne's talk with you about love being selfish.

I can appreciate that - we don't have to fully insert ourselves into the characters. I do find myself asking myself what I would do, rather than saying "what would I do if I were XYZ?" I guess this game allows me to suspend disbelief and put myself in the driver's seat as if I were actually the one making the decisions.

I agree that the ritual is selfish and short-sighted, and being that I felt as if I was in front of morrigan, I opted out of that path and sent her on her way.

The problem is how we like to talk about how subjective this thing is. The fact is, like you said mrao, objectively, the dark ritual is short-sighted and based on selfish motives. There really can't be another interpretation, since morrigan approaches you with the argument that said "why should you have to die?" and I believe the word she used as "needlessly". And she is incredibly selfish in that if you don't comply, she'll abandon you in your time of greatest need. These are selfish things, not selfless things. That's...a fact lol.

I mean, look at it this way. At one point, you face a desire demon who has possessed a templar and made him think he has a family. This is inherently and objectively a bad thing, because she has stripped him of his will and contrived an alternate reality based on pretenses - i.e. things that are not truth. This is bad. Just because bioware allows you to leave the demon to her games does not make it a good thing. Having an option doesn't mean you can justify the choice as being "good".

I think that was the point of the OP - not what your RP character decided to do, or even what could have happened as a result (supposing the grey warden's never made it to the dragon, for example). The question was, faced with the decision in that moment of time, would it be bad (selfish, short-sighted, etc.) to make the decision to perform the dark ritual. The answer is yes - it is those things, selfish, short-sighted, and careless.

[Allattar1]

Walina wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Actually it makes perfect sense. If she wants power (and David confirmed she is incredibly power-houngry) and doesn't care much about kids (see her reaction to children. She would happily kil lConnor and hte kids in the Circle), it makes perfect sense for her to posses a child with the power of a Old god. That would make her even more powerfull. And the more powerfull the host, the easier it is to posses.

First of all, you have ZERO evidence that possessing the kid would grant her that power. In the game it is suggested that possession destroys the original inhabitant of the body - oh, hey, but that's the old god. So what do you suggest, that his power has "leaked" into the body? Now it is you who starts a theory based on nothing.
Second, I can't recall a single act or opinion showing that Morrigan is power-hungry. The closest one is her wanting Flemeth's grimoire, but this could be simply a will to defend herself, since she only wanted it after she found out about Flemeth planning to possess her.

Btw. Yes, I do not know her motives to want the child. Neither do you. You consider the risk too great, I do not. It's called personal opinion.

Zero evidence mean that Mr. Gaider is wrong ? XD
Come on, you just don't wanna see in Morrigan a power hungry just admit it

And on the other hand Zero evidence doesnt mean that he is right.
You cant say lack of evidence proves guilt.  You have to have enough evidence to prove guilt, you dont assume guilt until eveidence of proven innocence.

I must point out again that you lot are arguing semantics over mechanics in a fictional world.  There is every chance that noone has the right answer, and Bioware will reveal it. 
Again False dilemmas do not make a truth.

Personally I think a lot of the problem in these arguments is trying to think in the old DnD pigeonhole of alignments.  This game avoids alignments completely, and avoids pigeonholing everything.

[Silensfurtim]

biffmastah wrote...

I think that was the point of the OP - not what your RP character decided to do, or even what could have happened as a result (supposing the grey warden's never made it to the dragon, for example). The question was, faced with the decision in that moment of time, would it be bad (selfish, short-sighted, etc.) to make the decision to perform the dark ritual. The answer is yes - it is those things, selfish, short-sighted, and careless.

Yes this was my original point. Not the role-played characters decision but the actions and consequences of the dark ritual itself.