1807 réponses à ce sujet

[fantasypisces]

A TV show or film that we have to wait 2+ years for /cry.



Anyway, I don't believe the soul of the Old God inside a body with Grey Warden blood would be easily tainted. Isn't that the reason for being for the Grey Wardens? The reason being that they survived the taint?

Therefore, the child born with the taint will not corrupt the old god. Would the other darkspawn be able to corrupt the child? Possibly, but maybe the Grey Warden's blood purifies the child and protects it from other taint.



Not to mention I am almost positive that Morrigan could possibly kill the child if there was the risk of an archdemon suddenly appearing again. Or try to do the plan again. Anyway, Morrigan does not want another blight, because of that I feel the soul of the old god combined with the grey warden blood will protect the child from the taint.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
A very good reason why it is stupid to take that choice out of selfishness.
I still do not understand is it so hard to consider other possible reasons behind it? Like, say, bringing back an untainted Old God?

Characters can have varried motivations for taking either option. That is beside the point.

Yeah, I still say it's selfish, even if oyu want to bring back an Old God. That desire in itself is not bad, but the fact that your'e basicly sacrificing your child to acieve it sez it all.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Crrash wrote...
seriously?
SERIOUSLY?
you know what i meant. sperm donation. Giving some of the "portable DNA" you produce anyway to some woman or couple with the agreement to have no claim on the child. It's a normal and good thing nowadays. and this with morrigan was just the same.

It is a moot point because it still is your child, not a piece of property you can give away. Your legal claim is irrelevant.

[XOGHunter246]

i personally feel that the ending that fits most is Alistair being king and dying to archdemon seen as he never wanted to be king might as well die doing something he wants. Because that was what was meant to happen in first place warden is meant to die when killing demon.

[Ravauviel]

Regardless of the many flimsy ad-hoc reasons people here are positing in an ultimately futile attempt at self-justification, committing the ritual is indeed a selfish act. However, "men being partial to themselves", being selfish is an intrinsic part of human nature, and in a moment when you are at your most vulnerable Morrigian will thus (attempt to) prey upon this flaw to her advantage.

[XOGHunter246]

I kind off think it's selfish as you don't know what morrigan plans are yet you will trust her to produce a god child without knowing fully her agenda just to save your self . Who knows if morrigans plans are for good or worst.

[greengroove]

There should've been an option to have an Old God abortion. It's a douche move and would most likely have involved killing Morrigan, but it seems pretty logical to me:

- Blight ends
- No doubts about having an Old God around
- You and Alistair/Loghain both live and can begin rebuilding the Grey Wardens

I'm sure Duncan wouldn't disapprove if he were around.

Modifié par greengroove, 07 décembre 2009 - 03:30 .

[Layn]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Crrash wrote...
seriously?
SERIOUSLY?
you know what i meant. sperm donation. Giving some of the "portable DNA" you produce anyway to some woman or couple with the agreement to have no claim on the child. It's a normal and good thing nowadays. and this with morrigan was just the same.

It is a moot point because it still is your child, not a piece of property you can give away. Your legal claim is irrelevant.

it's all about your beliefs and definitions.
IMHO a sperm donor of current days isn't the father of the child it produces. He gave away his sperm so another family can have a child and he could get some money and walks away. thats it. they might wonder what children might be born from what they donated, but they'll probably never see the children and everyones happy (well, probably some do feel they have some fatherly right and the child might want to know where the dna came from)

Modifié par Crrash, 07 décembre 2009 - 03:37 .

[Layn]

greengroove wrote...

There should've been an option to have an Old God abortion. It's a douche move and would most likely have involved killing Morrigan, but it seems pretty logical to me:

- Blight ends
- No doubts about having an Old God around
- You and Alistair/Loghain both live and can begin rebuilding the Grey Wardens

I'm sure Duncan wouldn't disapprove if he were around.

well what happens if you kill an old god? will the soul jump again and go to a grey warden and kill them?

[Allattar1]

greengroove wrote...

There should've been an option to have an Old God abortion. It's a douche move and would most likely have involved killing Morrigan, but it seems pretty logical to me:

- Blight ends
- No doubts about having an Old God around
- You and Alistair/Loghain both live and can begin rebuilding the Grey Wardens

I'm sure Duncan wouldn't disapprove if he were around.

Thats also another reason why she didnt hang around....

[Alex Savchovsky]

Ravauviel wrote...

Regardless of the many flimsy ad-hoc reasons people here are positing in an ultimately futile attempt at self-justification, committing the ritual is indeed a selfish act.

Amusing. So you're saying we seek self-justification in an internet forum dedicated to a computer game? Don't be silly. The discussion is purely philosophical. However, simply repeating statements is not considered a discussion. I would suggest using the form "it is a selfish act, because <reasons>".
A selfish act is, by definition, one that you commit with the intent to gain certain benefits. So if a character does the ritual with the intent to prolong his life, I would agree that it is a selfish act. As I said already, there are other possible reasons too and I find labeling them all as "selfish" quite inappropriate.

[Allattar1]

XOGHunter246 wrote...

I kind off think it's selfish as you don't know what morrigan plans are yet you will trust her to produce a god child without knowing fully her agenda just to save your self . Who knows if morrigans plans are for good or worst.

Indeed and this is where you draw your own conclusions about what you believe of Morrigan.
If you think she is reckless and irresponsible.  Then yes its a selfish risk that should never be taken.

If however you believe that she knows a lot more than she is going to tell.  That there is some other plan behind this, and she can keep themselves safe.  Then its a whole lot less of a risk, but still is a little selfish. 

A good question we dont have an answer to is...
When did Morrigan know about the ritual?  From the start? or was this something that she only learnt of gradually over time.

Was she in fact Flemeth at that point in time? or was it truly Morrigan?

[XOGHunter246]

i think it from flemeths book

[Amphiptere]

I distinctly remember Morrigan saying it was Flemeth who told her about it and it's the whole reason why she was sent to accompany the Gray Wardens in the first place. But my memory tends to fail me so... I am not certain of it.

[Curlain]

Yep, I'm pretty sure she does say it's Flemeth how told about it, and it was the reason she was sent with you in the first place, so it has been the plan from the start (if Morrigan's telling the truth about that)

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

i think it depends on your motivations-



what are they going to do? remove the taint?



part of the reason one could have submitted to the ritual is to preserve an elder god that is not necessarily "evil" merely a victim of the "taint" which for all we know was caused by the chantry or the loss of the elves immortality, or even michael moore's farts

[XOGHunter246]

Amphiptere wrote...

I distinctly remember Morrigan saying it was Flemeth who told her about it and it's the whole reason why she was sent to accompany the Gray Wardens in the first place. But my memory tends to fail me so... I am not certain of it.

your right i remember this now

[Ravauviel]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Ravauviel wrote...

Regardless of the many flimsy ad-hoc reasons people here are positing in an ultimately futile attempt at self-justification, committing the ritual is indeed a selfish act.

Amusing. So you're saying we seek self-justification in an internet forum dedicated to a computer game? Don't be silly. The discussion is purely philosophical. However, simply repeating statements is not considered a discussion. I would suggest using the form "it is a selfish act, because ".
A selfish act is, by definition, one that you commit with the intent to gain certain benefits. So if a character does the ritual with the intent to prolong his life, I would agree that it is a selfish act. As I said already, there are other possible reasons too and I find labeling them all as "selfish" quite inappropriate.

Amusing...quite so, especially since your vilification of those who disagree with your contention makes your vicarious "roleplaying game" character driven philosoraptor existential musings comical indeed. Oh well, don't mind me...carry on.

 

Modifié par Ravauviel, 07 décembre 2009 - 05:37 .

[Layn]

Ravauviel wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Ravauviel wrote...

Regardless of the many flimsy ad-hoc reasons people here are positing in an ultimately futile attempt at self-justification, committing the ritual is indeed a selfish act.

Amusing. So you're saying we seek self-justification in an internet forum dedicated to a computer game? Don't be silly. The discussion is purely philosophical. However, simply repeating statements is not considered a discussion. I would suggest using the form "it is a selfish act, because ".
A selfish act is, by definition, one that you commit with the intent to gain certain benefits. So if a character does the ritual with the intent to prolong his life, I would agree that it is a selfish act. As I said already, there are other possible reasons too and I find labeling them all as "selfish" quite inappropriate.

Amusing...quite so, especially since your vilification of those who disagree with your contention makes your vicarious "roleplaying game" character driven philosoraptor existential musings comical indeed. Oh well, don't mind me...carry on.

 

what?

[dude10321]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but the old gods were seen as bad by the Chantry. It was stated that the old gods convinced the Tavinterian Magistrates to worship them instead of the Maker and talked them into going to the Golden City. So, in essence, the old gods, along with the Magistrates, were the ones that started the Blight to begin with. And this was before any of the old gods were tainted. That being said, I chose to take Morrigan up on her offer based on self preservation and the fact that I could always hunt her down later if things go arye (good plot for a sequal/mod). As many have already stated, self preservation is, by definition, a selfish act, but one that is inherently human (and I suspect elven as well). Is self preservation that bad though? It's my thought that the last 2 archdemons are going to come in quick sucession as opposed to the normal couple of hundered years inbetween Blights. If the Hero of Fereldan isn't there to kick their asses, who will?

[Alex Savchovsky]

dude10321 wrote...

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but the old gods were seen as bad by the Chantry. It was stated that the old gods convinced the Tavinterian Magistrates to worship them instead of the Maker and talked them into going to the Golden City. So, in essence, the old gods, along with the Magistrates, were the ones that started the Blight to begin with.

Only if you believe the Chantry. Which I don't.

[XOGHunter246]

yes the chantry is full of it they twist the truth

[dude10321]

When the first Blight happened, it would have been recorded in all of the worlds major religions/histories in some way or another. We have only the Chantry for historical reference, (which has 2 sides, the Chantry based in Orleas and the one based in the Tavinterin Empire). I'm not sure how the story of the first Blight changes between even the 2 Chantries. I would be interested in how the Qun portrays the first Blight.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Ravauviel wrote...

Regardless of the many flimsy ad-hoc reasons people here are positing in an ultimately futile attempt at self-justification, committing the ritual is indeed a selfish act.

Amusing. So you're saying we seek self-justification in an internet forum dedicated to a computer game? Don't be silly. The discussion is purely philosophical. However, simply repeating statements is not considered a discussion. I would suggest using the form "it is a selfish act, because ".

Are you really surprised? Humans will seek self-justification wherever tehy can. They will seek like-minded individuals wherever they can. You've been on the internet forums this long as you still haven't figured that out?

N00b.

A selfish act is, by definition, one that you commit with the intent to gain certain benefits. So if a character does the ritual with the intent to prolong his life, I would agree that it is a selfish act. As I said already, there are other possible reasons too and I find labeling them all as "selfish" quite inappropriate.

Reasons are not all that matters. Whatever your goal may be, you do it to achieve that goal. And you're putting a child into MORRIGANS hands. That alone is a crime, even if it were a perfectly normal child.
In this case you're practicly sacrificing you child for goal X (eather it's living longer or brining back an old god) - i'ts still a deuchebag move.

[Layn]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Reasons are not all that matters. Whatever your goal may be, you do it to achieve that goal. And you're putting a child into MORRIGANS hands. That alone is a crime, even if it were a perfectly normal child.
In this case you're practicly sacrificing you child for goal X (eather it's living longer or brining back an old god) - i'ts still a deuchebag move.

and on the other side are we who think Morrigan is a good person and we are giving her a child that is ours (or alistairs or loghains) only by dna. and saving a (potentially good) old god from dying. possibly even creating a messiah who will bring worldpeace, fuzzy feelings and whatnot. seems good to me

you are cautious, we are trusting. you aren't wrong in not doing the ritual, there is a tiny slim chance that we might have been wrong with doing the ritual. fact is, many of our wardens didn't do it solely to save our own skin (or lover) and thus it wasn't a selfish act.

Modifié par Crrash, 07 décembre 2009 - 07:49 .