1807 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex Savchovsky]

Crrash, trusting a friend can hardly be described as "blind".

[Layn]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Crrash, trusting a friend can hardly be described as "blind".

well blind in the sense that you have their vague word on it and nothing else.

[robertthebard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
That's hardly the case.
As I explained already, you tried to make a conclusion based only on objective facts, but that is completely incorrect, because every single decision or judgment you make is eventually based on your subjective beliefs. Thus you're actually making a conclusion based on your own beliefs and claim that they are universally true. You cannot possibly expect that someone agrees with that, can you?

The ritual is based on Blind Trust - FACT
Blind trust is, by definition, not wise. - FACT
Ergo, the ritual is not wise.

Disagre as much as you want. You can just as well disagree that gravity exists while you're at it.

Yeah, I will disagree.  With such an absolute position, it would be easy to prove that gravity didn't exist, and the planet just sucks.  However, more to the point:

When the ritual would be based totally on blind trust:  If you turn Morrigan into the Templars when you go to the Circle of Magi, or any other time you get a chance, and she shows up, then it would be blind trust.  In fact, I'd say it would fit into the "I have absolutely no reason to trust you, and more reason to put you to the sword" category.  At this point, trusting Morrigan would be totally stupid.  You have betrayed her to the Templars afterall, and here she is offering you a way to save your life.  Suspicious much?

When the ritual would not be based on blind trust:  You either romanced her as a male PC, or bonded to a high approval rating as a female PC.  In either of these circumstances, the changes in Morrigan, whether real or contrived, are obvious.  What would not be obvious is the first option I listed even being remotely possible.  The fact that it exists in game is unkown to the PC, and only Metagaming would expose it.  Therefore, based entirely on what your PC knows from it's own experiences with Morrigan, there is not blind trust involved, she is either your gf, or like a sister.  Trusting either one is not blind trust.

Another blind trust scenario:  You take her, and leave her in camp the whole game, and she still offers the ritual.  At this point, all you know about Morrigan, if you've never talked to her, and just left her in camp the whole game is that she has never actively betrayed you.  An argument can be made that this would entail blind trust.

However, and this is crux to your position, assuming that the PC knows all of these possibilities exists steps out of the game, metagaming.  You know, from reading here, that even if you turn her in, she will show up.  This seems like a valid stance, but in the spirit of the game, it is not.  You have to base your trust on what you know about a character in that particular run through the game, w/out allowing knowledge of the game mechanics to influence your decision.  If you are unable to do this, then the immersion in the game world is lost, and you're just playing for achievements.  Like they matter.  While there is nothing at all wrong with this, it does not mean that you have the "moral high ground" in a discussion about whether or not the ritual is selfish. 

I have maintained from my very first post in this thread that it is selfish.  The act of being selfish isn't morally bankrupt, as we are all selfish to one degree or another.  If you believe otherwise, you are deluding yourself, and I would point out that you are very selfish about being right, otherwise you could look at other views, and maybe see that your moral absolutes are not globally accepted facts.  The fact that one person in this thread has disagreed with you concerning them shows that.

Another point, regarding my Lawful Good Paladin comments; it is your position that GW's should only do morally right things.  My City Elf is an admitted murderer, and not just any murderer, she killed the Arl's son, and yet, she was conscripted into the ranks.  The murder may well have been justified, but in the eyes of Denerim, at that time, Elves don't have the right to defend themselves, and so if Duncan does not step in, my PC is doomed to torture and death in the Arl's dungeon, with none save the Alienage to know the injustice of it all.  In other words, Duncan goes against the status quo to gain my PC.  He also does the same thing with Alistair.  Recruiting a Templar initiate from the Chantry.  Yeah, thumbing your nose at the Chantry is a politically correct thing to do.  Daveth is another example of someone stolen from justice, although we don't know what crimes he may have committed, we do know that he had no choice but to be in Ostagar, "considering what Duncan saved me from".  That's not speculation, Daveth will tell you this in dialog if  you talk to him before you go out into the Wilds.

We also have Soldier's Peak to show us that the moral compass of the GW's is fluid at best.  While both main characters there may be extreme examples, they do show that saving kittens from trees is not the only thing GW's do when there isn't a blight to fight.  So, from what we can see in game, it's very easy to paint a picture of the GW's being all over the board "morally".  As I said, drinking blood will not make you all of a sudden the gung-ho kitten saver.  It can, in fact be argued that it doesn't change the drinkers moral compass at all.  Nothing that I have seen in game gives me a reason to believe otherwise.

[Felene]

Crrash wrote...
ok lets see what my warden did.
"in war, victory" - took down an archdemon and stopped the blight. check
"in peace, vigilance" - did the ritual to be able to do this one afterwards. check
"In death, sacrficice" - delayed that death by some 29 years (actually delayed alistairs death so he could go play king) and will go down while blazing through a horde of darkspawn in the deep roads. another check

You fail to understand Grey Warden motto.

"In peace, vigilance." When there is no Blight, we watch and prevent it at all cost.

Instead of prevent any future Blight, PC choose to save 2 life here, which one of them has the potential to become a archdemon.

"In death, sacrifice." When our time has come, to give our lives to end the Blight, we will do it.

Instead of accept death when it come, PC cheat death and take the ritual.

as much as any woman walking on the surface has the possibility of becoming a broodmother and thus becoming a factory for producing your enemies army.

That is not my logic.

thats where the trust thing comes in. Those that befriended her have no reason to believe the worst.

I wonder what it takes to befriend you.

You may trust your friend to whatever end you wish, but agree the ritual simply because you trust her is hardely a justification on this case.

Not to mention her core believe is power is EVERYTHING. And she doesn't trust you in return, that is why she doesn't choose to stay.

[Felene]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...
There's the logic I'm talking about.  The Old God is innocent.  You don't have enough evidence in the game to assume that he or she is guilty, so you have to go with your default beliefs.  Killing an innocent to avert the slight chance at another Blight is bad.

Indeed, one can't state the true nature of an Old God.

You believe that its nature is good thus innocent from its imprisonment from the begin.

I say its nature is unstable and unpredictable, thus it doesn't worth to be redeem, like Howe.

Not to mention it is in the hand of one of most unstable, unpredictable, power seeking, untrustworthy woman who will not reveal her plan for the child.

[robertthebard]

Felene wrote...

Crrash wrote...
ok lets see what my warden did.
"in war, victory" - took down an archdemon and stopped the blight. check
"in peace, vigilance" - did the ritual to be able to do this one afterwards. check
"In death, sacrficice" - delayed that death by some 29 years (actually delayed alistairs death so he could go play king) and will go down while blazing through a horde of darkspawn in the deep roads. another check

You fail to understand Grey Warden motto.

"In peace, vigilance." When there is no Blight, we watch and prevent it at all cost.

Instead of prevent any future Blight, PC choose to save 2 life here, which one of them has the potential to become a archdemon.

"In death, sacrifice." When our time has come, to give our lives to end the Blight, we will do it.

Instead of accept death when it come, PC cheat death and take the ritual.

as much as any woman walking on the surface has the possibility of becoming a broodmother and thus becoming a factory for producing your enemies army.

That is not my logic.

thats where the trust thing comes in. Those that befriended her have no reason to believe the worst.

I wonder what it takes to befriend you.

You may trust your friend to whatever end you wish, but agree the ritual simply because you trust her is hardely a justification on this case.

Not to mention her core believe is power is EVERYTHING. And she doesn't trust you in return, that is why she doesn't choose to stay.

My time hadn't come.

[Felene]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
It's a bit too late for that at the moment of Morrigan's offer.
You already had to decide what happens with the Circle of Magi, the elves and the werewolves, the next dwarven and ferelden kings. All of those are way bigger than you are.

All the choice PC made up to the point of Morrigan's offer can have a outcome that is clear, thus not a gamble.

Who is to say they have a clear knowledge on what is going to happen to Feralden or Thedas future when they take that offer?

Unless you are Mr. Gaider, you don't.

Modifié par Felene, 10 décembre 2009 - 06:37 .

[Felene]

robertthebard wrote...
My time hadn't come.

Yup, one refuse to accept death when it comes and decided to doom the future of Thedas instead.

Better someone else than me, right?

The Dark Ritual is indeed a selfish act as a Grey Warden.

Modifié par Felene, 10 décembre 2009 - 06:29 .

[Sandal_Ownz]

Whose to say its wrong really, did anyone really die? I took the position that Grey Wardens didn't do it previously because they didn't know how to bypas sacrificing themselves to destroy the archdemon.



However, we don't know what ends up happening with the child......yet.

[robertthebard]

Felene wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
My time hadn't come.

Yup, one refuse to accept death when it comes and decided to doom the future of Thedas instead.

Better someone else than me, right?

The Dark Ritual is indeed a selfish act as a Grey Warden.

If you read through my posts in this thread, you'll see that I have never claimed otherwise.  However, this conjecture that I have doomed the future of Thedas is half baked at best.  There is no evidence presented in game, ever, to suggest that Morrigan/Loghain's baby, in my runthrough with the ritual, will start a new blight.  This conclusion seems to come mostly from the Grey Wardens should be Paladins camp.  Points at new shiney sig.

[Jax Sparrow]

Considering my toon is now the Prince-Consort? I would tell them "Bring it" if they wanna get all judgemental.  The reasoning for the old traditional method was because the alternative was to have to kill every single Darkspawn in the battle and possibly have to fight the dragon a suicidal number of times before the Blight was over.  So the new method reincarnates the old God so the good guys can convert him and the bad guys loose a lieutenant bad ass.  This is bad why?  rules are meant to be broken.

[TheLadyJess]

Well they are called GREY Wardens...not Black Wardens or White Wardens, so nothing is absolute except the only one that can really kill and Archdemon is a Grey Warden...and they only know one truth, so it is expected that they would have questions, but if they knew of any alternate methods, I'm pretty sure they'd research them as well.



Also, I saw the opportunity to have two Grey Wardens rule Ferelden as a boon to the Wardens in the long run. I imagined that Ferelden's new King and Queen would make it easier for the Wardens to recruit. Not only that, but in Ferelden, the Wardens would be seen as heroes again.



I also saw the idea of people living outside the normal realm as being a tad effete. Are Grey Wardens not allowed to have feelings, urges, emotions, thoughts, or desires? Or are they to be led around and told what to do without having a say in anything? Are they not allowed to be people? As Grey Wardens, are they one face among many or are they unique individuals with vibrant personalities?



I also see the fact that you find out pretty much at the last minute that your death in inevitable as a slap in the face. You survive the Joining, told you have thirty years to live...but right before the blight reaches its apogee, you are told that you have to decide who lives and who dies between you and Alistair / Loghain...how is one to make a life or death decision like that at the spur of the moment?



I, for one, would feel slightly betrayed if I was told my sole reason for existence would be to die, so I can understand the trepidation that Ser Jory had. BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT if my death can prevent the deaths of many more, then maybe I'll consider it.



I will live with the consequences of my actions, and if the event arose that I must either atone or explain myself, then so be it...I will not hold back. However, if my actions did benefit the greater good, then I will not be culpable.



It's hard to say whether or not either path is really the better path. There are positives and negatives to both. I chose the Dark Ritual, so does that make me a selfish person? Maybe, but if my choice actually benefits the greater good in the long run, then I don't regret it one bit. Only time can judge a person's actions as good or bad which is why when the sequel is made, character transfer or save file transfer has to be mandatory so as to see how that penultimate decision plays out.

[Felene]

Sandal_Ownz wrote...

Whose to say its wrong really, did anyone really die? I took the position that Grey Wardens didn't do it previously because they didn't know how to bypas sacrificing themselves to destroy the archdemon.

However, we don't know what ends up happening with the child......yet.

I never say the dark ritual is wrong, what is wrong when someone doesn't want to die?

The point of this thread is to discuss if the act itself is selfish or not.

I say it is.

Now, is been selfish wrong?

robertthebard wrote...
If you read through my posts in this thread, you'll see that I have never claimed otherwise.  However, this conjecture that I have doomed the future of Thedas is half baked at best.  There is no evidence presented in game, ever, to suggest that Morrigan/Loghain's baby, in my runthrough with the ritual, will start a new blight.  This conclusion seems to come mostly from the Grey Wardens should be Paladins camp.  Points at new shiney sig.

So you do agree there is a possibility if one accept the ritual it will harm the future of Thedas in someway?

No, a Grey Warden will do anything that is necessary to end the Blight. They are not paladins.

If walk an old lady across the street, and then rob her will end the Blight.

A Grey Warden will do it.

The duty of Grey Warden is to end Blight, prevent Blight at all cost.

If a Grey Warden choose to take the Morrigan's offer, yea it will end the Blight, but it also creat a possibility for a new Blight.

Thus at this point, the Grey Warden value his/her own life over his/her duty.

Therefore, selfish.

Modifié par Felene, 11 décembre 2009 - 02:34 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

Felene wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
It's a bit too late for that at the moment of Morrigan's offer.
You already had to decide what happens with the Circle of Magi, the elves and the werewolves, the next dwarven and ferelden kings. All of those are way bigger than you are.

All the choice PC made up to the point of Morrigan's offer can have a outcome that is clear, thus not a gamble.

Is that so?
Is it clear that there are no more abominations in the Tower when you decide to spare them?
Is it clear if Alistair will make a good king? Or Anora? Or Bhelen?
Is it clear what happens if you choose to corrupt the Sacred ashes?
Many choices in the game are exactly as much gamble as accepting Morrigan's offer. More of a gamble, in fact. As for neither of those choices you don't have the word of a friend.

[Lotion Soronarr]

robertthebard wrote...

*SNIP*

WRONG. You still don't understand what blind trust is, do oyu? Please..please, go read up an explanation and definition somewhere on hte net.
It doesn't matter how long you've known Morrigan. It still is blind trust since you have no OTHER source of info to compare it or gauge it agaisnt.

You don't know nothing about the ritual, you don't know how it works, CAN it even work, will the baby relly be safe, etc, etc...
You've got no other person to consult, no book or text to read to help you form a better decision, no personal experience with something similar, NOTHING.

The ONLY thing you got is Morrigans word, nothing of which can be verified. THAT is blind trust.

I have maintained from my very first post in this thread that it is selfish.  The act of being selfish isn't morally bankrupt, as we are all selfish to one degree or another.  If you believe otherwise, you are deluding yourself, and I would point out that you are very selfish about being right, otherwise you could look at other views, and maybe see that your moral absolutes are not globally accepted facts.  The fact that one person in this thread has disagreed with you concerning them shows that.

For something to be a moral abolute, it doens't have to be universally accepted. There are people believeing all sorts of crazy things. Disagreign with something doesn't mean it isn't so. Moral absolutes exist and I'm stickign to it.

And the 2 reasons I consider the ritual morally bankrupt are:
1) gambling wiht other poeples live
2) gambling with your child.

It's not the selfishness itself. It's the possible price you're so readily taking that OTHER will have pay.

Another point, regarding my Lawful Good Paladin comments; it is your position that GW's should only do morally right things. 

 
I dont' recall I said that. I did say that I don't belive they will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to stop the Blight. That's going into the other extreeme and the Grey Wardens from the book didn't strike me as that at all.
Grey Wardens are only human after all and you can't really judge the whole group by the actions of a few.

[TheLadyJess]

Everything in this game is ambiguous at best. There are good and bad consequences to every little decision you make...and that adds to the replay factor. To set a definitive moral compass for the PC would be a little silly considering that there are no absolutes in the world of Thedas. If going through with something that sounds good at the time, but has devastating repercussions later down the road, is it worth it? Adversely, if something tragic happens but is actually for the greater good, is that also a bad thing? There is a landship's load of grey area in this game, which makes it all the more addicting.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
Is it clear that there are no more abominations in the Tower when you decide to spare them?

You dont' actually spare thenm - you just give your reccomendations. And you do have some knowledge to work with. You know what the Abomiations can do and roghly how many can there be. You also know that the mages will stay in the tower and that the Templar reinforcements are on their way, so it should be OK.

Is it clear if Alistair will make a good king? Or Anora? Or Bhelen?

You have something to work with (knowledge of relative political power, their policies), but nothing definite. This is a gamble, but politicians don't rule alone and this is a situation where both choices look equally good. This is actually the closest example, but different. BOTH outcomes have high uncertanties.

Is it clear what happens if you choose to corrupt the Sacred ashes?

Nope. That's why I never do. It not be wise.

Many choices in the game are exactly as much gamble as accepting Morrigan's offer. More of a gamble, in fact. As for neither of those choices you don't have the word of a friend.

But that also depends on what you choose. You are given choices. Not all of them are wise choices. You pick what you want. That doens't mean that just cause you have choices to pick, that all of them must be wise.

[Lotion Soronarr]

as much as any woman walking on the surface has the possibility of becoming a broodmother and thus becoming a factory for producing your enemies army.

Far less a danger than an Archdemon. Give the women a knife so they can kill tmeselves if caught by darkspawn.

[robertthebard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
Is it clear that there are no more abominations in the Tower when you decide to spare them?

You dont' actually spare thenm - you just give your reccomendations. And you do have some knowledge to work with. You know what the Abomiations can do and roghly how many can there be. You also know that the mages will stay in the tower and that the Templar reinforcements are on their way, so it should be OK.

If any mages are left alive in the tower when you leave, you spared them.  That's what sparing them means, you didn't kill them.  Ambiquous much?  Let me guess, you are also an avid proponent of man made global warming too, aren't you?

Is it clear if Alistair will make a good king? Or Anora? Or Bhelen?

You have something to work with (knowledge of relative political power, their policies), but nothing definite. This is a gamble, but politicians don't rule alone and this is a situation where both choices look equally good. This is actually the closest example, but different. BOTH outcomes have high uncertanties.

In other words, you know less about them than you do Morrigan, assuming you've talked to Morrigan at all, or didn't turn her into the Templars the first chance you got.  Yet, you are willing to say that you can make a kind of informed choice?  The exception being Alistair, and if you ever chose to make him King, you have ignored a lot of character interaction throughout the game that indicates that he would clearly suck at being King.  Why, for example, are you leading the party?  Alistair straight out says that he'd much rather follow, and yet, you can justify putting him on the throne?

Is it clear what happens if you choose to corrupt the Sacred ashes?

Nope. That's why I never do. It not be wise.

So have you played any other than Human Noble?  Personally, I have never corrupted the ashes so far, although I shall have to do that once, but it was more out of a sense of loyalty to the people I have had in the party with me when I went, than defacing something with religious significance.  After all, playing Dalish, or any dwarven Origin, what difference does it make to the PC about some human symbol's ashes?  Neither of these cultures worships the Maker.

Many choices in the game are exactly as much gamble as accepting Morrigan's offer. More of a gamble, in fact. As for neither of those choices you don't have the word of a friend.

But that also depends on what you choose. You are given choices. Not all of them are wise choices. You pick what you want. That doens't mean that just cause you have choices to pick, that all of them must be wise.

What is a wise choice?  You say that destroying the ashes would be unwise, but why is that?  Simply because you say so?  I'm to put blind trust in what you say, simply because you said it?  Exactly what's unwise about it?  What are the far reaching effects of doing so?  In fact, and here there are some answers sort of hinted at in the epilogue, what are the far reaching effects of not destroying the ashes?  Isn't it unwise to not destroy them, or at least try to hide them away so that they cannot be exploited by either the Chantry, or by Tevinter?  After all, the Tevinter are the reason we have ashes in the first place, do you think they'd not stoop to trying to gain control of them?  Before the chorus of "No, they couldn't do that" starts, they could.  It is just as likely that they would as it is likely that Morrigan's baby causes another blight.  Instead, you would blindly trust that once you have cleared all the hazards out of the way, assuming you killed the High Dragon, that they would just say "Goody for you, you found the ashes".

Modifié par robertthebard, 10 décembre 2009 - 08:06 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

robertthebard wrote...

If any mages are left alive in the tower when you leave, you spared them.  That's what sparing them means, you didn't kill them.  Ambiquous much?  Let me guess, you are also an avid proponent of man made global warming too, aren't you?

What's your point? If any surviving mages are abominations, they are still locked in the tower with the templars. They are contained. Ultimatively it wasn't my decision.

In other words, you know less about them than you do Morrigan, assuming you've talked to Morrigan at all, or didn't turn her into the Templars the first chance you got.  Yet, you are willing to say that you can make a kind of informed choice?  The exception being Alistair, and if you ever chose to make him King, you have ignored a lot of character interaction throughout the game that indicates that he would clearly suck at being King.  Why, for example, are you leading the party?  Alistair straight out says that he'd much rather follow, and yet, you can justify putting him on the throne?

Frankly, I would have prefer NOT to make a choice, but the game doesn't give me an option there. ITs' not a Grey Wardens job to pick kings, but you can't get out of it.
Putting either Alisair or Anora on the throne - NEITHER is a really wise decision given your current knowledge. Well, my PC does know Alistair better and he personally though he'd make a great king, but it's not like he confirm that.
As I said, not all decisions I can (or do) make in the game are wise.
So what' exactly IS your point?
How does pointing other (possible) unwise decision make the ritual a any less wise decision? It changes nothing.

So have you played any other than Human Noble?  Personally, I have never corrupted the ashes so far, although I shall have to do that once, but it was more out of a sense of loyalty to the people I have had in the party with me when I went, than defacing something with religious significance.  After all, playing Dalish, or any dwarven Origin, what difference does it make to the PC about some human symbol's ashes?  Neither of these cultures worships the Maker.

I wouldn't consider that wise really. You know too little about the ashes and messing with powers you don't understand is never a good idea.
I have all 6 origins (at least. 2 city elf and 2 human nobles) at different stages BTW.

What is a wise choice?  You say that destroying the ashes would be unwise, but why is that?  Simply because you say so?  I'm to put blind trust in what you say, simply because you said it?  Exactly what's unwise about it?  What are the far reaching effects of doing so? 

Exactly. You know too little, so better to just leave them be. Get what you came for and leave. The Ashes are not your problem.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 10 décembre 2009 - 08:30 .

[TheDrunkenPanda]

...at this point, I'm just going to say it seems Lotion is arguing just for the sake of winning, not for the sake of debating points of view.

[Alex Savchovsky]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Frankly, I would have prefer NOT to make a choice, but the game doesn't give me an option there. ITs' not a Grey Wardens job to pick kings, but you can't get out of it.

Now I get it.
Lawful Good... preference not to make decisions... mistrust towards Morrigan... you must be Alistair!

[Lotion Soronarr]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...
Now I get it.
Lawful Good... preference not to make decisions... mistrust towards Morrigan... you must be Alistair!

Curses! My secret has been exposed!  TO THE TEMPLARMOBILE BOY WHINER!

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Here is a thought.

When you think about it, not doing the ritual means you get a one in three chance to kill the archdemon, right?

I just realised something, the ritual actually means in theory you have only ONE chance to kill it.

That ONE chance being because Morrigan HAS to survive the final battle.

If she dies, no doubt the unborn baby dies with her thus. You are actually back to square one.

Now before all the Anti-ritual brigade jump up and down stating this is why taking the ritual is selfish, I'll remind you we are talking about Morrigan here, the shapeshifter who so far has done a darn good job of hiding from the apostate hunters.

Not only that, she has put the emphasis of survival on herself rather than one of you three.

Also it means you can go into the fight with a different tactic.

Why storm the place (other than to spare any that might be still alive) when you can bring out the ballistas and what not to bring the archdemon down? Thus saving a lot of lives of the army that would have possibly died in the battle had you gone in full assault?

To use Lotion's constant use of "You know too little" your right, you obviously don't know much about the Wardens seeing as you didn't know about the sacrifice and you don't possibly know how they came about realising how to win the first blight, it had to be either accident or trial and error. If it is the latter, surely the ritual is in the same boat?

If it works, great, if it don't you know not to do it again.

Bringing this into the real world, if all the inventors whom took a risk that could have saved/doomed many people didn't take those risks, I am sure we wouldn't be where we were today, would you not agree?

Sometimes, gambles have to be made.

Now I would like to point out, that I am not preaching (unlike it would seem some people are) that everyone should or shouldn't do the ritual. Please everyone, remember this is only a game. A Roleplaying game at that, if you only play lawful good characters, fine by you but don't preach that others should just do that as well and don't confuse what they had their characters do with what they would do.

I am quite sure that if Sophia Dryden had been in this situation, she would have got Alastair or one of the others to do the ritual as she was one of the "Any means necessary" type of Warden, which I would gather there has been and possibly still is a few of.

It truly can't be described as selfish, nor for that matter truly selfless, it just come down to instincts.

What a lot of people seem to be doing in this topic is just showing how they percieve those instincts.

Perception breaks it down into individual (or in some cases groups) chain of thought. It doesn't mean that it is right or wrong.

There is a lot of grey areas in this game and the ritual is obviously one of the biggest. Some see it as a good idea, some bad. No more, no less.

[Varyen]

I have a theory on the dark ritual and if my theory is true then it's a bad thing. Morrigan said that flemeth(excuss my spelling) might one day come after her. What if she did come after Morrigan and there wasn't a cut scene to show it and flemeth is the one who tells you of the ritaul? If you go along with it, you just helped produce another host for her spirit It's also possible that Morrigan also figured out how to become immortal & this old god child is the ultimate host regradless if it's Morrigan or Flemeth