1807 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravauviel]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

It's bad because there can only be as many Blights as there are Old Gods. By allowing the Old God that caused this Blight to be reborn, even if it's free of the taint, is risking another Blight if it ever gets corrupted again by darkspawn. You've basically just saved yourself at the risk of dooming everyone.

That was my rationale as well, besides the self-sacifice made for a more emotionally compelling and cathartic ending.

"...In Death - Sacrifice".

Modifié par Ravauviel, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:45 .

[RVallant]

Silensfurtim wrote...

Even if the Old God has been reborn with purity, the darkspawn eventually will seek it and begin tainting it again.

Maybe Morrigan did it so she could use it to defend herslef against Flemeth soon. But considering her being an un-goody companion, maybe she'll use it to for evil ways.

Wasn't it Flemeth's idea in the first place? If so maybe the intention was for Flemeth to intentionally possess Morrigan and then later, the old god. Flemeth in a body previously owned by an old god = whoa the maker, the blight is nothing compared to this...

Either way I wouldn't trust Morrigan with a god-baby. There's too many potential problems to justify the left-wing 'lets save the beasty' theory. So it was worshipped as a good thing, who's to say it wasn't a tyrannical god in the first place? And, isn't the Maker the one true god per se? Again too many avenues to explore on the basis.

[Erasculio]

RVallant wrote...
There's too many potential problems to justify the left-wing 'lets save the beasty' theory.

Too many potential advantages, too.

So it was worshipped as a good thing, who's to say it wasn't a tyrannical god in the first place?

Who's to say it was?

And, isn't the Maker the one true god per se?

Says the Chantry.

[Curlain]

It probably is a little selfish, though understandably so particularly with some characters who didn't get much of a choice in being a Grey Warden, it seems like the perfect way out. What it certainly could be is a bit short-sighted since your are agreeing to help in releasing a power you know next to nothing really about, and have no idea what it could end up doing (and this in no way means you have to buy any of the Chantry's version of things at all, cause the truth is we know next to nothing about what the 'Old Gods' really were, apart from they probably were not your average common-or-garden high dragon, if there is such a thing , but are seem to have been some highly intelligent dragon more in line with DnD and Tolkienesk dragons).

So yep, without knowing anything about their real nature, desires, motives etc it's probably a bit of a short-sighted move that could bite you royally later on (or not, who knows).

On the other hand, unless you sacfice Alistair or Loghain it's the only way you will be around to see any of those consequences anyhow so it's a tough choice

Modifié par Curlain, 01 décembre 2009 - 04:51 .

[RunCDFirst]

Erasculio wrote...

Says the Chantry.

Are you questioning the Chantry? <_<

[Kohaku]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Erasculio wrote...

Says the Chantry.

Are you questioning the Chantry? <_<

The Maker is the one true voice. ~Bows to the Maker~

[Salaciouschicken]

Actually, Morrigan speaks about the ritual as a way of preserving the essens of the Archdemon in a sense...which can't be a good thing. I'm going to start a thread on this, but I want to ask it here. Do you think the choices you make in the first one will effect the second one? They said they were going to do it with Mass Effect 2 (I don't know if they did or not, they could have said something but I missed it).

[Silensfurtim]

there should be a new Grey Warden motto:



"In war, victory. In peace, vigilance. In death... sleep with a witch who knows the dark ritual to save you ass from dying."

[Curlain]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Erasculio wrote...

Says the Chantry.

Are you questioning the Chantry? <_<

The Chantry has taken note of this lack of faith, you shall be henceforth condemned to take over that boy's role assisting the board Chanter in Lothering until you know your Chant by heart

[Salaciouschicken]

RVallant wrote...

Silensfurtim wrote...

Even if the Old God has been reborn with purity, the darkspawn eventually will seek it and begin tainting it again.

Maybe Morrigan did it so she could use it to defend herslef against Flemeth soon. But considering her being an un-goody companion, maybe she'll use it to for evil ways.

Wasn't it Flemeth's idea in the first place? If so maybe the intention was for Flemeth to intentionally possess Morrigan and then later, the old god. Flemeth in a body previously owned by an old god = whoa the maker, the blight is nothing compared to this...

Either way I wouldn't trust Morrigan with a god-baby. There's too many potential problems to justify the left-wing 'lets save the beasty' theory. So it was worshipped as a good thing, who's to say it wasn't a tyrannical god in the first place? And, isn't the Maker the one true god per se? Again too many avenues to explore on the basis.

Extremely good point. That is very likely the purpose as Morrigan does say it was the reason she was sent with you.

[Silensfurtim]

Curlain wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...

Erasculio wrote...

Says the Chantry.

Are you questioning the Chantry? <_<

The Chantry has taken note of this lack of faith, you shall be henceforth condemned to take over that boy's role assisting the board Chanter in Lothering until you know your Chant by heart

lol

[Silensfurtim]

Salaciouschicken wrote...

RVallant wrote...

Silensfurtim wrote...

Even if the Old God has been reborn with purity, the darkspawn eventually will seek it and begin tainting it again.

Maybe Morrigan did it so she could use it to defend herslef against Flemeth soon. But considering her being an un-goody companion, maybe she'll use it to for evil ways.

Wasn't it Flemeth's idea in the first place? If so maybe the intention was for Flemeth to intentionally possess Morrigan and then later, the old god. Flemeth in a body previously owned by an old god = whoa the maker, the blight is nothing compared to this...

Either way I wouldn't trust Morrigan with a god-baby. There's too many potential problems to justify the left-wing 'lets save the beasty' theory. So it was worshipped as a good thing, who's to say it wasn't a tyrannical god in the first place? And, isn't the Maker the one true god per se? Again too many avenues to explore on the basis.

Extremely good point. That is very likely the purpose as Morrigan does say it was the reason she was sent with you.

was this before or after Morrigan finds out that shes gonna be body snatched later on?

[Kohaku]

Salaciouschicken wrote...

Actually, Morrigan speaks about the ritual as a way of preserving the essens of the Archdemon in a sense...which can't be a good thing. I'm going to start a thread on this, but I want to ask it here. Do you think the choices you make in the first one will effect the second one? They said they were going to do it with Mass Effect 2 (I don't know if they did or not, they could have said something but I missed it).

I really hope so. Before I play ME2 I'm going to play it one more time. I'm going to, hopefully, go the Renegade way to see what changes between both my saved games.

I really hope that they show you what effects your various saves will have on the world in Dragon Age. What does get me is if you decided to sacrifice yourself to save the world, how will that translated to a new game if a person were to pick that save?

[RunCDFirst]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

Salaciouschicken wrote...

Actually, Morrigan speaks about the ritual as a way of preserving the essens of the Archdemon in a sense...which can't be a good thing. I'm going to start a thread on this, but I want to ask it here. Do you think the choices you make in the first one will effect the second one? They said they were going to do it with Mass Effect 2 (I don't know if they did or not, they could have said something but I missed it).

I really hope so. Before I play ME2 I'm going to play it one more time. I'm going to, hopefully, go the Renegade way to see what changes between both my saved games.

I really hope that they show you what effects your various saves will have on the world in Dragon Age. What does get me is if you decided to sacrifice yourself to save the world, how will that translated to a new game if a person were to pick that save?

You play as dog.

You don't get any romances, but everyone automatically has 100 approval.

[Kohaku]

RunCDFirst wrote...

You play as dog.

You don't get any romances, but everyone automatically has 100 approval.

Awesome. Where do I sign?

[Serenity84]

In my human noble playthrough I never had a choice of joining the Grey Wardens. You have none in any of the origins, but you could roleplay as if you want to be one and just seized the opportunity. I just went along with the whole thing, because it was the only option and the blight needed to be stopped. And while I tried to show the Grey Warden's in a good light, I wasn't a zealous champion of all their ideals. So it felt right to be a bit selfish about getting to live.

[RunCDFirst]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...

You play as dog.

You don't get any romances, but everyone automatically has 100 approval.

Awesome. Where do I sign?

Right here beside the clause that says you're turning over all your worldly possessions and estates to Anora.

[MikeMonger]

Allattar1 wrote...

An interesting question is, if you do not accept Morrigans offer, does the ending still mention bands of Darkspawn running round, disorganised but still a threat?

Yes, it does.

[Kohaku]

RunCDFirst wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

RunCDFirst wrote...

You play as dog.

You don't get any romances, but everyone automatically has 100 approval.

Awesome. Where do I sign?

Right here beside the clause that says you're turning over all your worldly possessions and estates to Anora.

Damn. I knew there was a catch.

[Allattar1]

The Eldar god will be reborn, and screw around with the Chantry.

got a good idea that seeing as Grey Wardens are only slowly affected by the blight that any grey warden child with eldar god ex archdemon soul is not going to be very corruptible. At least not for a good few thousand years or so .



Even if it isnt strictly morally right, thats my ass saved, then I get to laugh at the Chantry in the coming years as they try and deal with a God.



Whilst the Humans are distracted the Greater Elvanhar nation will rise again...



All works out well for me.

[Itkovian]

I wrestled with this question myself, but then considered the following factors:

- The old gods are said to have been evil, the source of blood magic and corrupted the Tevinter empire. While there is little evidence of this, being a follower of the Chantry my PC would tend to give some weigth to this information (in a world rampant with obserbable supernatural events, I found it difficult to RP an atheist *grin*).

- The Blights are caused by the old gods being tainted. This means there can only be seven Blights, if true (and while this isn't proven, there is much evidence to that effect). Therefore there are only 3 possible Blights left.

- Given the above, destroying the Archdemon/Old God offers tangible progress towards defeating the Blights forever. While the darkspawn will rise again, there will only be 2 Blights left. Or, if you prefer, this isn't really a temporary victory delaying the inevitable. It's clear progress towards there being no Blights anymore.

- Morrigan's offer means the old god will survive. Maybe, just maybe it won't be corrupted anymore, but that does not mean it is not going to be a threat to humanity (either by just plain being evil, see first point, or by becoming corrupted once more).

- By the simple fact that Morrigan never told you about this before, it does not bode well for her trustworthiness. Clearly this was her ulterior motive all along (if not her, then Flemeth's, which Morrigan then co-opted). This is why Flemeth saved you. Furthermore, Morrigan then refuses to stay with you to raise the child, and will not tell you anything about her plans for him. That raises more than a few red flags.

Given all these points, it seemed to me that the best, most logical option was to kill the old god. Eliminate that threat to humanity forever. That kind of power should stay out everyone's hands, and it brings us that much closer to the end of the Blights.

And since Alistair was to be king, my PC was the one to deal the final blow. A fitting death for a Grey Warden.

Itkovian

[Drider-man]

Well, even though the Dark Ritual ending is rather ambiguous, other than the name there's really no indication whether it's a bad idea or not. I mean, it's not as if you sign a contract stipulating "You have to die when slaying the Archdemon", it's just what usually happens.

I understand why the Grey Wardens would be wary about the whole thing and if you weren't the the awesome champion who saved the world, they'd probably chew you out about it. But in the end, you didn't really do anything wrong as far as Darkspawn-fighting/Blight-stopping is concerned.

Actually, you found a way to remove the taint from a creature without killing it. Not really under circumstances that are easy to reproduce (pun!), but still, it might be something to work with.

The Chantry probably wouldn't be happy about it, but the Wardens aren't under Chantry jurisdiction and the Wardens aren't a religious organisation

[Relshar]

Morrigan is not an evil person. She is just all for survival of the fittest and strength. Which is Chaotic Neutral in alignment terms. If she was evil then she would not want the Blight to end and would seek ways to kill the Grey Warden like Loghain does.

Loghain was in my eyes Lawful Evil. He shrouded himself with the law so as to make his actions more plausible to himself when he and others question him.



As for the Old God like Morrigan says why should its essence be destroyed just because it was corrupted by the Darkspawn?



If you play through and become queen with Alistair then you will notice at the end Alistair is called to the main Grey Warden base and is there for a very long time.

[Taleroth]

It's not selfish, it's a chance to give the Old God another chance. It's mercy and forgiveness.



The Chantry teaches us that the Darkspawn, and subsequently, the Blights are man's punishment for his hubris. While, none of my characters are overly religious, they side with Wynne in that it's something to consider. The Blights occur because man is proud, violent, and selfish. Perhaps this is true, perhaps it is not. Maybe it wasn't the Maker who was offended that caused the Darkspawn and the Blights. What if it was the Old Gods themselves?



If one cannot show mercy when the chance is offered, then maybe that is why the Blights occur. Why they will continue to occur. Perhaps even past the deaths of all the Old Gods. Maybe something new could come.



Then again, maybe not. Mercy is worth the risk.

[Kinaori]

Apophis2412 wrote...

True. Not even the Sacred Ashes of Andraste are real proof that the Maker exists. If you bring Ogrhen with you on this quest he'll mention that he can sense an extremely strong Lyrium vein around the temple and that it affects everything inside. He actually says that it might not all be real.

Oh wow, that's interesting to know.  I found the Ashes to be quite the mystery, but that explains a lot.

Itkovian wrote...

I wrestled with this question myself, but then considered the following factors:

- The old gods are said to have been evil, the source of blood magic and corrupted the Tevinter empire. While there is little evidence of this, being a follower of the Chantry my PC would tend to give some weigth to this information (in a world rampant with obserbable supernatural events, I found it difficult to RP an atheist *grin*).

- The Blights are caused by the old gods being tainted. This means there can only be seven Blights, if true (and while this isn't proven, there is much evidence to that effect). Therefore there are only 3 possible Blights left.

- Given the above, destroying the Archdemon/Old God offers tangible progress towards defeating the Blights forever. While the darkspawn will rise again, there will only be 2 Blights left. Or, if you prefer, this isn't really a temporary victory delaying the inevitable. It's clear progress towards there being no Blights anymore.

- Morrigan's offer means the old god will survive. Maybe, just maybe it won't be corrupted anymore, but that does not mean it is not going to be a threat to humanity (either by just plain being evil, see first point, or by becoming corrupted once more).

- By the simple fact that Morrigan never told you about this before, it does not bode well for her trustworthiness. Clearly this was her ulterior motive all along (if not her, then Flemeth's, which Morrigan then co-opted). This is why Flemeth saved you. Furthermore, Morrigan then refuses to stay with you to raise the child, and will not tell you anything about her plans for him. That raises more than a few red flags.

Given all these points, it seemed to me that the best, most logical option was to kill the old god. Eliminate that threat to humanity forever. That kind of power should stay out everyone's hands, and it brings us that much closer to the end of the Blights.

And since Alistair was to be king, my PC was the one to deal the final blow. A fitting death for a Grey Warden.

Itkovian

Yep, that pretty much sums it up for me too.  Just too much she won't say, her motivations are too murky, let alone what the Old God may or may not be.  The fact that a God (capital G) would be so apparently easily susceptible to corruption doesn't bode well for it being all nicey-nicey God of Beauty again.  *Especially* in Morrigan's care.  Yikes.