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[Lotion Soronarr]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

This topic hit the moral chord pretty hard. What? Did you expect from me to leave morality out of this completely? A bit hard given that this topic adresses morality too. You cannot talk about selfishness without that.

That said, why do people insist on desperatly defending the validity of the choice some character of theirs took?
 

Because the choice is valid. Regardless of your own unwillingness to accept it.

Bad choice of words. Replace "validity" with "wisdom" or "goodness".

didn't i make it clear? there are three things that can happen and we
have no clue which one is more likely so, theres an equal chance for
every possibility. so thats a 1 in 3 chance that the soul dies.

Erm...I don't think that's how it works.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 12 décembre 2009 - 10:15 .

[Layn]

well going back to the broodmother thing, that will make Felene want to quote herself again

so far all fully tainted Old Gods have become Archdemons (leaders of the darkspawn army)

not all Old Gods have been tainted so far.



so far all fully tainted women have become Broodmothers (creators of the darkspawn army)

not all women have been tainted so far.



You have to agree that as is (what i wrote above) you'd have to kill all women in Thedas too, by applying your logic that if something can become tainted and be a major factor in the blight it has to be killed.

since the old gods are less, and arguable not really that important to the survival of a species compared to women, its easier to just kill all old gods.

however more women get taken, more broodmothers created, more darkspawn made and every time there will be more darkspawn to fight (unless grey wardens keep finding broodmothers and killing them).

anyway old gods only get found and tainted because they call out to be freed and cant defend themselves (as is mosy likely, but you might argue on that). But we will have a mostly human child with no need to call. Its very unlikely that one hidden child will be found. and even if darkspawn should find it and try to taint it: a) its a small enough force for morrigan and later on an adult old god person to defeat its a big enough force to be noticed by the grey wardens and destroyed.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ERm...no.



Fist, and Old God is the head of hte Lbight. IT's importance far overshadows that of Broodmothers



Secondly only some women stand a chance of becoming Broodmothers, even if corrupted. And it's not easy for one to become a broodmother. It has to be tainted, forced to eat darkspwan flesh and all other sorts of nasty thing. 99% of all women would committ suicide.



Third, women don't want to become Broodmothers. That we know. do Old Gods wish to become tainted? They do have some connection to the taint.



The last bit about size of force and speed of response is wishfull thinking.

[Inconcessus Scientia]

Wrong. As we have seen without an Archdemon the dwarves are constantly fighting the darkspawn. Once they become overrun the surface will have a constant war to deal with.The Broodmothers are a greater threat than an Archdemon. If you kill all the Old Gods you still have the threat of the darkspawn. Killing all the Broodmothers and darkspawn makes the Archdemon just another dragon to be slain. Not to mention it prevents any more Old Gods of even becoming an Archdemon. In the long run preventing more broodmothers is more important than preventing another Archdemon.

Modifié par Inconcessus Scientia, 12 décembre 2009 - 12:34 .

[robertthebard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

ERm...no.

Fist, and Old God is the head of hte Lbight. IT's importance far overshadows that of Broodmothers

Secondly only some women stand a chance of becoming Broodmothers, even if corrupted. And it's not easy for one to become a broodmother. It has to be tainted, forced to eat darkspwan flesh and all other sorts of nasty thing. 99% of all women would committ suicide.

Third, women don't want to become Broodmothers. That we know. do Old Gods wish to become tainted? They do have some connection to the taint.

The last bit about size of force and speed of response is wishfull thinking.

No.  Blights are led by Archdemons.  While the Archdemon may have been an Old God, it is an Old God no longer. 

So in other words, the woman has to be dragged underground, or in the case of dwarven women, they have to be dragged to a lair, and then turned.  The fact that there are brood mothers, and different types of darkspawn means that this happens, and it happens fairly regularly.  If your position is that the brood mother that you actually get to see is that it is the only one, you're sadly mistaken.  Branka had only been missing for two years, and the brood mother that you slay was a member of her house.  How did that brood mother produce all the darkspawn from the previous blight, or from any time before Branka went to the Deep Roads in search of the Anvil?  Point being, that any female that is captured will undergo the ritual to become a brood mother.  What we don't know is that it takes every time or not.  What we do know is that they try.  However, the logic that in order to stop future blights, we must slay all females, while silly, will hold water.  If there are no females, there can be no brood mothers, if there are no brood mothers, there can be no darkspawn, and if there are no darkspawn, there can be no Archdemon, and with no Archdemon, there can be no blight.  It's simple, and wise to believe that that would be a way to eliminate any chance of a Blight.  It's not very practical, however.

Another point about the baby is that it is already tainted.  It has Grey Warden influenced taint.  The thing about that is, for about 30 years, it's immune to further tainting.  After that time, it will go mad, as Grey Wardens do.  It is impossible to corrupt that Old God to make it an Archdemon, just as it's impossible to further taint a Grey Warden.  You can dismiss this out of hand if you wish, it would suit the nature of your conversation, after all, since goals are reached by following agendas, and you choose to substitute goal for agenda to say that reaching goals isn't the same, you could just as easily dismiss grass ever being green.  Since this is the way you choose to approach this discussion, with no matter what you say, you're correct, then there is no point in carrying on.  After all, no matter what, everything anyone types is wrong, if they don't toe your line and agree.  Peace.  I hope you enjoy your Special Olympics trophy.

[Inconcessus Scientia]

Let me try to clear somethings up.

Because of our lack of knowledge of the ritual and child we can only make assumptions. Probability is the chance that something will happen or has happened.  But in this case we don't know what is possible. People have been focusing on the child and how Morrigan said it will change. But you forget to look at the other side, how will the Old God change? We just simply don't know. Can the child become an Archdemon? We don't know, it might not even be possible. Therefore there is no known risk involved with the child. Ergo the grey warden is not going against the interest of the others. But even it did I will say this again, if the person's intent is not for self interest then it is not selfish. Regardless if goes against the interest of others. If the character choose to accept the ritual without the intention of furthering self interests then it isn't selfish.

Another thing that should be mentioned is that Avernus clearly stated that the reason Grey Wardens only have 30 years is because of the crude way they obtain the taint. The child has gained the taint from its father. It is now also an unknown. We don't know how fast it progresses or even if progresses at all with this child. Not to mention Morrigan knows of Avernus, if you let him live she could always come back to get a possible future cure or at least Avernus' current progress.

Modifié par Inconcessus Scientia, 12 décembre 2009 - 06:36 .

[Felene]

Crrash wrote...

well going back to the broodmother thing, that will make Felene want to quote herself again
so far all fully tainted Old Gods have become Archdemons (leaders of the darkspawn army)
not all Old Gods have been tainted so far.

so far all fully tainted women have become Broodmothers (creators of the darkspawn army)
not all women have been tainted so far.

You have to agree that as is (what i wrote above) you'd have to kill all women in Thedas too, by applying your logic that if something can become tainted and be a major factor in the blight it has to be killed.
since the old gods are less, and arguable not really that important to the survival of a species compared to women, its easier to just kill all old gods.
however more women get taken, more broodmothers created, more darkspawn made and every time there will be more darkspawn to fight (unless grey wardens keep finding broodmothers and killing them).
anyway old gods only get found and tainted because they call out to be freed and cant defend themselves (as is mosy likely, but you might argue on that). But we will have a mostly human child with no need to call. Its very unlikely that one hidden child will be found. and even if darkspawn should find it and try to taint it: a) its a small enough force for morrigan and later on an adult old god person to defeat its a big enough force to be noticed by the grey wardens and destroyed.

Ravauviel wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Felene wrote...

DariusKalera wrote...

Your assumption is that you know, for certain, that the child can become an archdemon and therefore can lead another Blight.  Simple fact is, you can not know for certain.

Felene wrote...

But if the character choose to take the ritual, a Old God is reborn. Thus, created a possibility for another Blight.

The child is a Old God that can be tainted by a darkspawn and become an archdemon that can start a Blight.

Please note I say can, as in "able to", not will, as in "it will happen".

Are all Archdemons Old Gods?  Yes.

Yes. This is my logic and fact.

Are all Old Gods Archdemons?  No.

Now that is not my logic, my logic is "All Old Gods can become archdemon."

And all women can be turned into Broodmothers. Would you kill all women in Ferelden because of that?

And nothing else you offered is conclusive. It's all assumption, and just as "naive" as you claim any other viewpoint aside from your own to be.

Err. that is a false analogy and a logical fallacy. 

Have all the souls of old gods been tainted thereby turning them into Arch-demons perpetrating Blights? YES. Thereby positing that an uncorrupted soul of the old will also likely succumb to the taint.

---> Inductive Reasoning

Have all women become Broodmothers? No Obviously. Do all women have the "potential" to become Broodmothers? YES "if captured by Darkspawn". So would I kill a woman who has been captured by Darkspawn? YES.

Naive is hope for the best.

I am considering the worst.

And, NO, I have never say we should kill Morrigan or the child because it will become an archdemon!

I say, it is selfish for Morrigan to have the child just to save PC's own life because it can become an archdemon.

So can Morrigan have the child or can the child live? YES!

So can Morrigan or the child live if they are capture by darkspawn? NO!

Enough with the "Felene's logic" already!

Modifié par Felene, 13 décembre 2009 - 01:42 .

[Gold Dragon]

I suspect that the Conversions, Both Woman to Broodmother, and Old Dragon God to Archdemon, are roughly the same as the Joining Ritual of the Wardens.

Biggest Difference: The Joining is (slightly) more controlled than the Stuffing of Darkspawn meat down Gullets that came across in the leadup to the Broodmother fight.

EDIT:  Need to learn to spell.  And proofread.

Modifié par A Golden Dragon, 13 décembre 2009 - 12:58 .

[Layn]

Felene wrote...

Navie is hope for the best.

I am considering the worst.

And, NO, I have never say we should kill Morrigan or the child because it will become an archdemon!

I say, it is selfish for Morrigan to have the child just to save PC's own life because it can become an archdemon.

So can Morrigan have the child or can the child live? YES!

So can Morrigan or the child live if they are capture by darkspawn? NO!

Enough with the "Felene's logic" already!

a) sorry this has been really bothering me for some odd reason, but ... it's "naïve" or even "naive" not "navie"
but in all our arguments that it doesn't have to necessarily be selfish, we already pointed out that we aren't giving Morrigan a child for the PC's own life. i mean, really, doing something potentially dangerous just because you don't want to die? selfish. giving morrigan a child, because you feel you still have to help a lot of people and the wardens of ferelden (or some other reasoning, like free old god can only be a good thing for the world, or whatever), doesn't seem selfish however.
c) as i said before Morrigan can deal pretty well with any small darkspawn force. Any bigger Darkspawn group will be noticed by Wardens. they are pretty safe. also if Darkspawn do go after the child, it'll be pretty easy to have an idea where Morrigan is!
d) but "Felene's logic" has such a catchy name!
e) Bulletpoints are cool

[Felene]

Crrash wrote...

a) sorry this has been really bothering me for some odd reason, but ... it's "naïve" or even "naive" not "navie"
but in all our arguments that it doesn't have to necessarily be selfish, we already pointed out that we aren't giving Morrigan a child for the PC's own life. i mean, really, doing something potentially dangerous just because you don't want to die? selfish. giving morrigan a child, because you feel you still have to help a lot of people and the wardens of ferelden (or some other reasoning, like free old god can only be a good thing for the world, or whatever), doesn't seem selfish however.
c) as i said before Morrigan can deal pretty well with any small darkspawn force. Any bigger Darkspawn group will be noticed by Wardens. they are pretty safe. also if Darkspawn do go after the child, it'll be pretty easy to have an idea where Morrigan is!
d) but "Felene's logic" has such a catchy name!
e) Bulletpoints are cool

a) Typo, fixed.

I don't want to quote myself again.

c) IF they are capture.

d) Crrash's logic

e) ?

[Layn]

Felene wrote...

d) Crrash's logic

e) ?

d) not as catchy

e) oh just my sleepy self being crazy, please ignore that point

[Tyger42]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

This topic hit the moral chord pretty hard. What? Did you expect from me to leave morality out of this completely? A bit hard given that this topic adresses morality too. You cannot talk about selfishness without that.

That said, why do people insist on desperatly defending the validity of the choice some character of theirs took?
 

Because the choice is valid. Regardless of your own unwillingness to accept it.

Bad choice of words. Replace "validity" with "wisdom" or "goodness".

Let me answer your question with a question: Why do -YOU- insist on attacking it?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Let me answer your question with a question: Why do -YOU- insist on attacking it?

Cause I have a boring internship, a lot of free time and free internet?
Well partially... cause I can't stand people ignoring facts

********************

Let's go trouhg this slowly..

Now, we are TOLD that the Old Gods slumber imprisioned and the darkspwan seek them out and corrupt them.

We KNOW that the tainted (and only the tainted) hear the old gods call. This establishes a clear connection between the Old Gods and the taint. How? Why? Good questions and this raises many suspicions.
Is the Archdemon really a corrupted Old God? Is it really slumbering defencelss? What if it's calling the darkspwan to corrupt him on purpose? What if it's allready corrupted and just called the darkspwan to wake it up? What if it's the source of the taint? What if the archdemon as we see it IS the original Old God - in apperance and behavior? Why is it's soul somehow connected to the taint?
Food for thought.


Now, the only things we know about the ritual itself is what Morrigan tells us, and that is little. She's highly evasive with the details and there's no way to confirm anything she sez. She did not show concern for children trought the game, so her assurances that the child will be unharmed sound hollow (especially given her definition of unharmed).
She does tell you that in these early stages of the childs development, the old god essence can be absorbed without destroying it. At no point does she say the child doesn't have a soul. In fact, from her ords, it's more likely that the souls will merge or something.
Some have raised the issue of the child having the warden immunity to taint. This is no where confirmed or even hinted.
Either way, we know so very little about how this ritual does and how it works, that almost the only thing we have to go on is Morrigans word. This is blind trust.


So at one side we have the sacrifice - proven way to end hte blight for good.
On the other we have a ritual we know nothing about, with unknown chances of sucess, that involves a/your child merging/being possesed with the essence of the oldGod/Archdemon (and yes, I use the term as one becase we dont' really know enough about the archdemon), with Morrigna leaving with the child to raise it as she sees fit, disallowing you from EVER seeing the child.

Best case scenario - Morrigan teaches the God child to be good (fat chance) and the child hepls fight the blight.

Best for some (let's call this neutral?) - Or she uses it to destroy the Circle or the Chantry (fat chance - most of the world is the Chantry , so it's be Morrigan and child vs. half hte world) This isnt' really a good outcome, givne that many would die.

Worst case scenario - Morrigna lied to you. The childs original soul is destroyed/ the shild is possesed, the God baby unleashes destruction upon the land or starts a new Blight.


So yea...given everything, taking the ritual is very naive/stupid and shortsighted at best, and downright selfish and despicalbe at worst. And everything in between.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Your scenarios suck. You assume too much about Morrigan, especially as it pertains to her seeking power.  The cardinal sin, though, is that you assume too much about the darkspawn as well.

Modifié par The Capital Gaultier, 13 décembre 2009 - 10:43 .

[Allattar1]

ok another fact to be blown out the water.

We are not told Darkspawn hear the old gods call.
We are told they dont know why or how darkspawn are drawn to the old gods. They do know they search for them.

(And seeing as it took 400 years to find this one you can draw any conclusions about how they are guided or lack of guidance therein.)

Lets take your scenario, and apply it to say a woman.
Best case scenario, they grow up and never see any darkspawn live a good life have a happy family.

Worst case scenario they are grabbed by darkspawn dragged underground and become broodmothers.

Thats it all the women in Thedas must die its far too dangerous to let them live.

Modifié par Allattar1, 13 décembre 2009 - 07:48 .

[Varyen]

Just a question tha's bothering me... and this is based on reading codexes as well as the wikis & etc about the blights but...



are the archdemons only leading the darkspawn in the regain around them? Some blights according to codexes seem to be MUCH larger as well as based in a certian regain(s) instead of the whole of Thedas

[Yasu88]

Just thought I would put my two cents in here since after reading The Calling I might have access to information that is not available to other people.  Warning this post will contain spoilers for The Calling and Mass Effect.


Alright first off we are told by a Darkspawn himself that they hear the call of the old gods.  Now when described this call is akin to music insides one head drawing the person to the old gods.  Now we are not told whether or not the Old Gods do this intentionally or whether this is just the affect the Old Gods have on the Darkspawn.  Now
since the Old Gods are said to be sleeping I think that the calling is just anbunintentional effect.  Now we are also
told by the same Darkspawn that the Old Gods are considered to be perfection and due to that perfection the Darkspawn are called to them.  However due to Darkspawn taint when thebDarkspawn reach the Old Gods that perfection is tainted due to the nature of the Darkspawn themselves.  So we know two things about the connection between the Darkspawn and the Old Gods.

 

1)  The Darkspawn are drawn to the Old Gods

2)   The Darkspawn corrupt the Old Gods simply due to
their nature.

 

Now onto the ritual it is said that the Old God, the god of beauty let’s remind everyone, is cleansed of all Taint.  This means that the Old God is no longer and Archdemon but rather an Old God in its purist form again.  Now what many people in this thread overestimate I think is Morrigans ability to control the Old God. We know that
it is the soul of the Old God that transfers into the child but what does that really mean?  Does the Old Gods memories go with the soul?  Or does it simply retain the power?  Either way I hardly think that a twenty to thirty something Swamp Witch will be able to exert that much control over the Old God.  Heck the only reason the Dark Spawn are able to corrupt the Old Gods is due to the Old God’s slumber.

Now onto what I did.  I performed the dark ritual.  The reason being I saw this scenario being very similar to the Rachni scenario in Mass Effect.  Who am I to completely destroy  a race of being due to actions that they
had no control over?  The Rachni queen was the daughter of the Rachni that were wiped out and had learned its lesson.  The Old God was corrupted by the Darkspawn and I believe had no control over its actions. 
I say give the Old God of Beauty the chance to redeem itself and its brethren and if it indeed becomes corrupt and starts another blight hey the world has beaten five Blights before what is one more?

Modifié par Yasu88, 13 décembre 2009 - 08:17 .

[Null]

Varyen wrote...

Just a question tha's bothering me... and this is based on reading codexes as well as the wikis & etc about the blights but...

are the archdemons only leading the darkspawn in the regain around them? Some blights according to codexes seem to be MUCH larger as well as based in a certian regain(s) instead of the whole of Thedas

Yeah this Blight in particular just started in Ferelden with the Archdemon leading the horde. Most likely, it would have torn through Ferelden, corrupting it, then move onto other regions once successful, until all of Thedas is corrupted.

Is this what you were looking for?

[Layn]

Yasu88 wrote...

Now onto what I did.  I performed the dark ritual.  The reason being I saw this scenario being very similar to the Rachni scenario in Mass Effect.  Who am I to completely destroy  a race of being due to actions that they
had no control over?  The Rachni queen was the daughter of the Rachni that were wiped out and had learned its lesson. 

she didn't know anything about the war, since she was an egg at the time. however she definitely doesn't want every rachni to die and knows what happens if the rachni start another war. of course, her offspring won't know how it feels for there to be no "song" and might start another war. in this case their survival is up to themselves, but the lesson might be forgotten.
in the case of the old god, its not completely up to it if they get tainted or not, however the lesson to avoid becoming tainted might stay forever.

[Null]

Crrash wrote...

Yasu88 wrote...

Now onto what I did.  I performed the dark ritual.  The reason being I saw this scenario being very similar to the Rachni scenario in Mass Effect.  Who am I to completely destroy  a race of being due to actions that they
had no control over?  The Rachni queen was the daughter of the Rachni that were wiped out and had learned its lesson. 

she didn't know anything about the war, since she was an egg at the time. however she definitely doesn't want every rachni to die and knows what happens if the rachni start another war. of course, her offspring won't know how it feels for there to be no "song" and might start another war. in this case their survival is up to themselves, but the lesson might be forgotten.
in the case of the old god, its not completely up to it if they get tainted or not, however the lesson to avoid becoming tainted might stay forever.

Actually I'm wondering abou the Old Gods, and I'm sure someone has mentioned it already in this topic but... Darkspawn search out the Old Gods like they're a beacon right? Wouldn't they go after Morrigan's child if that were the case? Thanks.

[Layn]

Mueller86 wrote...

Actually I'm wondering abou the Old Gods, and I'm sure someone has mentioned it already in this topic but... Darkspawn search out the Old Gods like they're a beacon right? Wouldn't they go after Morrigan's child if that were the case? Thanks.

i mentioned that before. the calling is either something produced while sleeping (old god snoring ), or a controlled call to get someone to free them, or its something continuous that they cant shut off. so there is the possibility that there is no calling and the child is hidden pretty well. Then theres the possibility where the darkspawn do find the child, but Morrigan should be able to deal with a small troup, and anything bigger will be noticed by the grey wardens. in the latter case the wardens might actually also find morrigan.

Modifié par Crrash, 13 décembre 2009 - 09:15 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well partially... cause I can't stand people ignoring facts

So you can't stand yourself then?

Fact, Player Character Warden is a NEW Warden
Fact, Player Character Warden doesn't necessarily know the full history of the Wardens, especially the whole Blight situations other than the fact they helped end them possibly (not necessarily)
Fact, apart from Riordan and Alastair, they are the only Warden left in Ferelden
Fact, if no one tested anything different, especially something that could not just spare 1 but a lot more lives, then worlds wouldn't advance due to being 'stuck in the old ways'.
Fact, as previously mentioned, PC Warden is new and thus doesn't know everything that an 'old' Warden would and wouldn't do and even if he did read the history books, he probably would realise that in the last 400 years and maybe beforehand, a lot of the Wardens weren't as Paladin-ish as you think they all act.
Fact, throughout the characters adventures it is quite possible that the character can learn to trust and yet indeed maybe find Morrigan to be a valuable friend/comrade-in-arms whom may have saved their behinds on many occasions, thus it isn't truly 'blind trust' as some of you have been stating, but trust earned.

I will say this again and this is the last time I state it.

Dark Ritual - a selfish act as a Grey Warden? The answer to that question is purely peoples opinions. Both those involved and those around at the time of the Blight and after. If you yourself can't think of a reason how someone could justify it as selfless then you really haven't been paying attention to the facts.

There can easily be right reasons for doing it as well as wrong reasons for doing it.

[Layn]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well partially... cause I can't stand people ignoring facts

So you can't stand yourself then?

Fact, Player Character Warden is a NEW Warden
Fact, Player Character Warden doesn't necessarily know the full history of the Wardens, especially the whole Blight situations other than the fact they helped end them possibly (not necessarily)
Fact, apart from Riordan and Alastair, they are the only Warden left in Ferelden
Fact, if no one tested anything different, especially something that could not just spare 1 but a lot more lives, then worlds wouldn't advance due to being 'stuck in the old ways'.
Fact, as previously mentioned, PC Warden is new and thus doesn't know everything that an 'old' Warden would and wouldn't do and even if he did read the history books, he probably would realise that in the last 400 years and maybe beforehand, a lot of the Wardens weren't as Paladin-ish as you think they all act.
Fact, throughout the characters adventures it is quite possible that the character can learn to trust and yet indeed maybe find Morrigan to be a valuable friend/comrade-in-arms whom may have saved their behinds on many occasions, thus it isn't truly 'blind trust' as some of you have been stating, but trust earned.

I will say this again and this is the last time I state it.

Dark Ritual - a selfish act as a Grey Warden? The answer to that question is purely peoples opinions. Both those involved and those around at the time of the Blight and after. If you yourself can't think of a reason how someone could justify it as selfless then you really haven't been paying attention to the facts.

There can easily be right reasons for doing it as well as wrong reasons for doing it.

i'd like to add another fact: by killing the archdemon the full darkspawn might moves back to the deep roads. Due to your actions the Dwarves get a harder time.

helping them was a major factor in my characters decision

Modifié par Crrash, 14 décembre 2009 - 12:09 .

[The Capital Gaultier]

Crrash wrote...

i'd like to add another fact: by killing the archdemon the full darkspawn might moves back to the deep roads. Due to your actions the Dwarves get a harder time.

I do feel really bad for the dwarves.  Humans outnumber them 100 to 1 (according to Oghren, I think) but as soon as a "Blight" is over, humans and elves consider the darkspawn gone.  Those hole-dwellers really need to learn diplomacy from the Grey Wardens, I think.

Modifié par The Capital Gaultier, 14 décembre 2009 - 02:20 .

[Ravauviel]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well partially... cause I can't stand people ignoring facts

So you can't stand yourself then?

Fact, Player Character Warden is a NEW Warden
Fact, Player Character Warden doesn't necessarily know the full history of the Wardens, especially the whole Blight situations other than the fact they helped end them possibly (not necessarily)
Fact, apart from Riordan and Alastair, they are the only Warden left in Ferelden
Fact, if no one tested anything different, especially something that could not just spare 1 but a lot more lives, then worlds wouldn't advance due to being 'stuck in the old ways'.
Fact, as previously mentioned, PC Warden is new and thus doesn't know everything that an 'old' Warden would and wouldn't do and even if he did read the history books, he probably would realise that in the last 400 years and maybe beforehand, a lot of the Wardens weren't as Paladin-ish as you think they all act.
Fact, throughout the characters adventures it is quite possible that the character can learn to trust and yet indeed maybe find Morrigan to be a valuable friend/comrade-in-arms whom may have saved their behinds on many occasions, thus it isn't truly 'blind trust' as some of you have been stating, but trust earned.

I will say this again and this is the last time I state it.

Dark Ritual - a selfish act as a Grey Warden? The answer to that question is purely peoples opinions. Both those involved and those around at the time of the Blight and after. If you yourself can't think of a reason how someone could justify it as selfless then you really haven't been paying attention to the facts.

There can easily be right reasons for doing it as well as wrong reasons for doing it.

This is just so :facepalm: worthy that I just simply had to respond. Pray look up the meaning of the word "fact", it doesn't mean what you have attempted to connote here.

It seems that this thread is turning into one big circle-jerk. Any attempt at meaningful, intelligent conversation has long since dissipated. It just confounds the senses reading some of the rationale presented here. Oh well, my fault for clicking on the thread, I shall hereby refrain from doing so. Profuse apologies, don't mind me...carry on.