Aller au contenu

Photo

Dark Ritual - a selfish act as a Grey Warden?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
1807 réponses à ce sujet

#1401
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

Yeah, I just find it completely messed up. I mean, I don't even like Liara's mindmelding. The Asari are the most alien of the ME species to me.. despite the Hanar looking weirder.

 

I also took too many drugs when I was young. So maybe I have outside reasons. When I was done with that, I enforced a more grounded view on life in general. If I lived in the DA world, I'd have massive mental resistance or something. :D



#1402
Qun00

Qun00
  • Members
  • 4 386 messages

I'd assumed that Kieran wouldn't have any other soul, since this ritual was designed to get around a problem caused when there were two souls in one body.


You mean Kieran is soul less? That doesn't make sense.

#1403
Riverdaleswhiteflash

Riverdaleswhiteflash
  • Members
  • 7 914 messages

You mean Kieran is soul less? That doesn't make sense.

Before Inquisition came out I'd assumed that the Old God soul was Kieran's soul. That doesn't make sense now that Inquisition has revealed that the two have separate minds and that the Old God soul can be removed without harming Kieran, but makes more sense than what Inquisition establishes if all you know is that the DR is meant to avert a problem arising from two souls in one body.



#1404
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

I get the sense that there's tragedy to any of these choices. OGB Keiran, Mythal Well..

 

One way or another you're gonna either lose Keiran, Morrigan, or the Quiz to something....

 

And I still doubt there's a silver lining to the OGB being removed. I'd just rather avoid the prob completely. If I was in a Morri romance, I would far prefer raising regular Keiran. But then, if you want a whole happy family, then it's Quizzy drinking from the Well. Don't count on it being a good thing for Morrigan.


  • Riverdaleswhiteflash aime ceci

#1405
Qun00

Qun00
  • Members
  • 4 386 messages
Sigh... there are so many things that could be solved if David Gaider were not such a colossal, antisocial *******.

I believe he once described answering questions from fans as "being treated like an on call source of encyclopedic information to settle headcanon disputes".

Of all the times I've tweeted him, the only time he replied back was when it was not, in fact, a question.

And some of the topics I've humbly brought to him in the past were related to the DR. Could the archdemon emerge from Kieran? What was this world changing plan Morrigan spoke of in Witch Hunt?

Mysteries for the ages, as Gaider rarely speaks to fans at all.
  • straykat aime ceci

#1406
Aren

Aren
  • Members
  • 3 500 messages

That's part of what makes it confusing. Morrigan says "The child will bear the taint and the Old God's soul will be drawn to it like a beacon".


The Archdemon soul is bound to the taint which means that every time the dragon is killed it's soul is attracted by the taint of others contaminated beings and cannot go into the fade,
which seems to imply that the "darkness" of the taint is somehow akin to gravity for the soul who seem to be in itself tainted.
I argued once that the implications of this may be nefarious for all the Grey wardens if it is something non Old god specific because it means that the taint don't alter only the body and the blood but the very soul of whoever is infected by it.

As for the "beacon" i think it means that the ritual is altering this signal to be more specific in the unborn child so that the old god soul would not missed it.
Actually what is difficult to explain through logic is not the concept in itself but how that is possible.
I see it as a form of lore
contradiction or of Morrigan hiding informations.
In theory the Dark ritual as it is presented shouldn't work.
If the child bear the taint and at that stage has no will of its own then it means that the archdemon should reborn once again from Morrigan (rather than the soul being purified to its former self)unless she is using the GW resistance to not make it happen, which means she is hiding others details of the spell.
What is truly complicated to explain is why the child is more of a "beacon" than the darkspawns or the Warden who perform the final blow which is the closest being to the soul.
I think there are only two theories:

1) Morrigan is using blood magic to enhance the taint within the child and she is hiding details of what kind of blood magic is and how it operate
(I imagine with her life force or the one of the child)


-This however does not explain why the Archdemon don't reborn inside her since even if i'm aware that blood magic was shown to be able to cleanse the taint (at least for eluvians) here it is used to call in combination with the taint an archdemon soul which means that the child is tainted when the soul reach him;yes it is Grey warden taint with resistance however this means nothing because it did not helped The Architect when he failed,since the soul of the old god was tainted by GW blood and became an Archdemon because of it.


2)Morrigan need a Grey warden not only to perform the ritual but also to kill the Archdemon.
The Grey warden is used to absorb and filter the soul of the archdemon and give to it some resistance, then this altered soul has no other choice but to seek the child because it was filtered and is more in tune with the child rather than the darkspawn thus it seek only the child.
The filtered archdemon soul is completly purified when it reach the child.

-This theory has its issues as well since it does not explain
if it is actually possible to dodge soul annihilation when the Archdemon soul enter into a Gw but come to think of it we don't know the time frame of the Ultimate sacrifice.
Most importantly it does not fully explain how the old god soul is restored which is the very issue of the dark ritual.

Except that the whole reason the Grey Warden process works is because two Souls cannot share one body.

I'd assumed that Kieran wouldn't have any other soul, since this ritual was designed to get around a problem caused when there were two souls in one body.


1.My impression is that Urthemiel left him enough control of his own mind and body to develop normally, and mostly only manifested as a voice in Kieran's head that told him stuff he wouldn't otherwise know

2.Surprisingly enough Urthemiel was a fairly pleasant "roommate" who shared the body with Kieran peacefully.


I think the player was pretty much misinformed by the narrative in DAO.
My own conclusion is that the ritual was designed to dodge the issue of different wills into one being not of multiple souls into one body.
If an Archdemon can reborn within darkspawns is more likely because their will is already subjugated rather than them lacking a soul.
Flemeth show to possess into a DR-worldstate the capacity to share three souls into one single body so the conclusion is that one body can have multiple souls.
Grey wardens can't absorb the souls of the Archdemons not because they already have a soul of their own but because their own will would not permit it.
It is what the witch said in DAI "a soul is not forced upon the will".
I don't know how Cauliflower is able to bypass this every time he reborn but i have to suppose that it is a form of blight magic and that his taint permit him to force others tainted beings.


1.
My impression was that the old god never told to the boy anything, however since they shared the same brain some of it's knowledge was floating into him in the form of memories.

2.
The old god inflicted pain to Kieran in the form of terrible nightmares every time he approached lyrium.
This may be a strong lore hint that old gods suffer lyrium and cannot tolerate it or that they had some problems with the Titans.

I don't see how anything else in your head is truly peaceful, but that's just me. :P

I just expect him to be mentally deficient now, whatwith not developing properly for 10 years from birth.

I think he will share somehow the same issues of the Ancient elves.
Someone who was separated by a part of it's nature will feel lonely and different for life.
  • straykat aime ceci

#1407
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

Sigh... there are so many things that could be solved if David Gaider were not such a colossal, antisocial *******.

I believe he once described answering questions from fans as "being treated like an on call source of encyclopedic information to settle headcanon disputes".

Of all the times I've tweeted him, the only time he replied back was when it was not, in fact, a question.

And some of the topics I've humbly brought to him in the past were related to the DR. Could the archdemon emerge from Kieran? What was this world changing plan Morrigan spoke of in Witch Hunt?

Mysteries for the ages, as Gaider rarely speaks to fans at all.

 

I think he'll be better off just writing the storylines or characters at Beamdog. Instead of building another world/campaign. He doesn't seem to like the responsibility. This way he doesn't have to answer big questions.

 

He's answered me once about DAI... and it sounded like he was giving up even back then. I had some questions about the backgrounds and he just told me to ignore the codexes and make up whatever story I want. That's nice and all, but if I wanted that, I'd be a bigger fan of Skyrim. I play Bioware games for different reasons.



#1408
kimgoold

kimgoold
  • Members
  • 456 messages

I'll play along, but bear in mind that all of this is rendered moot by canon not allowing it.

 

Catching a shapechanger is a harder task than you seem to think. All she needs is a second's distraction to go bird, and then she's as good as gone unless you can change into a bird form capable of nonlethally capturing her. (Or at least I assume "nonlethally" is the plan.) And once she's gone, her shapechanger abilities make tracking her down again next to impossible. The Warden caught up to her in Witch Hunt because they followed a hunch that she was behind a stolen book, and because she chose not to turn into a bird and be out of there by a route that leaves no footprints to follow. (Whether or not the eluvians are an argument I can raise depends on how metagame we're getting. If they are, this just isn't an option.)

 

And if you do catch her during your one reasonable chance, holding her requires you to have Templars on her 24/7 (if she turns into a bird, she's gone,) and runs the risk of stressing her out to the point of causing miscarriage. If that's an acceptable outcome, you might as well just induce it on the spot at Fort Drakon. It's chancier than you give Morrigan credit for, but simpler than any other such trick you could pull.

 

But I'll give you the actual point, that the Wardens might be interested in the magics involved in the DR. Or I would, if they hadn't shown a stunning lack of curiosity about Fiona's condition after her cure in The Calling. Fiona's seeming immunity to the Taint is a magical phenomenon that they should absolutely want to replicate, or at least use. And yet they don't. So the DR, which they probably have less practical use for, they'd almost certainly ignore. I'm not saying that's how it should be, just that it seems to be how it is.

 

I have to agree, the Wardens seemed to be using the Dumb Stick like a relay baton in DAI; Fiona's immunity and the DR were missed opportunities but perhaps we will see more about this in future Warden gated DA games or DLC. Hopefully the Cure for the Calling won't be another missed storyline op.


  • Riverdaleswhiteflash aime ceci

#1409
Qun00

Qun00
  • Members
  • 4 386 messages

I think he'll be better off just writing the storylines or characters at Beamdog. Instead of building another world/campaign. He doesn't seem to like the responsibility. This way he doesn't have to answer big questions.

He's answered me once about DAI... and it sounded like he was giving up even back then. I had some questions about the backgrounds and he just told me to ignore the codexes and make up whatever story I want. That's nice and all, but if I wanted that, I'd be a bigger fan of Skyrim. I play Bioware games for different reasons.


I've seen him answer other people with "up to you" a few times. That's his way of saying "I don't care. Use your imagination".

#1410
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

Sigh... there are so many things that could be solved if David Gaider were not such a colossal, antisocial *******.

I believe he once described answering questions from fans as "being treated like an on call source of encyclopedic information to settle headcanon disputes".

Of all the times I've tweeted him, the only time he replied back was when it was not, in fact, a question.

And some of the topics I've humbly brought to him in the past were related to the DR. Could the archdemon emerge from Kieran? What was this world changing plan Morrigan spoke of in Witch Hunt?

Mysteries for the ages, as Gaider rarely speaks to fans at all.

 

No offense, but that sounds exactly like you guys are treating him. The story has mysteries. Not once has it ever occurred to me to personally badger the writers for details I'm not satisfied with. Jesus.

 

The actual mechanics of the Dark Ritual are also relayed to you by Morrigan while she's trying to wheedle a baby god out of your, Alistair's or Loghain's loins. I wouldn't put too much stock in her explanation.


  • Zjarcal aime ceci

#1411
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

I've seen him answer other people with "up to you" a few times. That's his way of saying "I don't care. Use your imagination".

 

It seems like he gave up on caring after DA2... because his stories were more of a shared experience before. At least with the player character. DAO had it's origins and DA2 was practically a whole origin story.



#1412
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

No offense, but that sounds exactly like you guys are treating him. The story has mysteries. Not once has it ever occurred to me to personally badger the writers for details I'm not satisfied with. Jesus.

 

The actual mechanics of the Dark Ritual are also relayed to you by Morrigan while she's trying to wheedle a baby god out of your, Alistair's or Loghain's loins. I wouldn't put too much stock in her explanation.

 

lol.. it's not badgering. And it's not like he's Elvis. He's an RPG writer. And he used to be very accessible and came on these forums plenty. He used to answer a lot of people. After ME3 and DA2, things noticably went downhill. With all of the developers and writers, it seems.

 

It's no different than a PnP campaign. If someone creates a setting, it's only fair they explain it. Most of these people are enthused to do so. It's just geek talk.. and it's usually fun.



#1413
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

lol.. it's not badgering. And it's not like he's Elvis. He's an RPG writer. And he used to be very accessible and came on these forums plenty. He used to answer a lot of people. After ME3 and DA2, things noticably went downhill. With all of the developers and writers, it seems.

 

It's no different than a PnP campaign. If someone creates a setting, it's only fair they explain it. Most of these people are enthused to do so. It's just geek talk.. and it's usually fun.

 

OTOH, if someone uses a preexisting campaign, then they don't have to explain anything.. they just write adventures, in that case.

 

Bombarding a writer with questions about his game and then complaining about him not baring the story's skeleton to you anymore just for asking seems entitled to say the least. It's his decision what to reveal and what not to, and as a reader/player you get what you get. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but what you're talking about crosses some serious boundaries between artist and audience. It's great if you guys had fun with it back in the day, but I'm 100% on his side if he doesn't want to do it anymore.


  • Zjarcal aime ceci

#1414
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

Bombarding a writer with questions about his game and then complaining about him not baring the story's skeleton to you anymore just for asking seems entitled to say the least. It's his decision what to reveal and what not to, and as a reader/player you get what you get. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but what you're talking about crosses some serious boundaries between artist and audience. It's great if you guys had fun with it back in the day, but I'm 100% on his side if he doesn't want to do it anymore.

 

I don't know what you mean by bombarding. I haven't seen the questions. And, I, personally, only had one question for him. What are you talking about?

 

It isn't exactly about artists and audience. Not with RPGs. PnP specifically is a community endeavor. CRPGs are a little different (especially since these are single player games), but a world builder should always be a little accessible. Even the guys who created big DnD campaigns discuss things with people. They'd be lost without them.

 

And like I said, he isn't Elvis. That kind of relationship isn't even relevant. It isn't even like the relationship of a novelist either...where he's just telling stories and can leave it at that.



#1415
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

Just to add, I don't think I'm guilty of whatever his deal is. I don't appreciate this at all.

 

I think, if anything, people who called out death threats and said horrible things in the past, is what bummed most of these developers out.

 

There are far worse things than me asking for a clarification on a PC origin. lol


  • Aren aime ceci

#1416
Aren

Aren
  • Members
  • 3 500 messages

Just to add, I don't think I'm guilty of whatever his deal is. I don't appreciate this at all.

 

I think, if anything, people who called out death threats and said horrible things in the past, is what bummed most of these developers out.

 

There are far worse things than me asking for a clarification on a PC origin. lol

I remember how Gaider had an aggressive debate when someone pointed out that by sparing Loghain you are not betraying Alistair...
I think that hardly Qun 00 wasn't polite in his request it is just that Gaider did showed from time to time to be passive/aggressive just for a matter of opinions.

  • ModernAcademic aime ceci

#1417
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

I know he's like that. I don't mind it myself.

 

Just imagine he's Shale... and it's more palpable.



#1418
Riverdaleswhiteflash

Riverdaleswhiteflash
  • Members
  • 7 914 messages

I don't know what you mean by bombarding. I haven't seen the questions. And, I, personally, only had one question for him. What are you talking about?

It might be that he's getting enough people asking just one question each that it becomes too much. Not to blame any one or any five of those people, you understand, since if that is the problem it would still exist without that one or those five, or maybe even any given ten.



#1419
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

It might be that he's getting enough people asking just one question each that it becomes too much. Not to blame any one or any five of those people, you understand, since if that is the problem it would still exist without that one or those five, or maybe even any given ten.

 

Maybe. It doesn't explain his answer though. He wasn't in the business of just telling everyone to make up their own stories before. That's more of a Bethesda thing.

 

Anyhow, I doubt the questions bugged him in themselves. He closed his blog around the same time (this is where he was HAPPY to answer questions before). People were pissing him off for other reasons at the time. He was sick of the blog, because of SJW people on Tumblr. And he was already getting onery for the other reasons I mentioned earlier.



#1420
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

Maybe. It doesn't explain his answer though. He wasn't in the business of just telling everyone to make up their own stories before. That's more of a Bethesda thing.

 

Anyhow, I doubt the questions bugged him in themselves. He closed his blog around the same time (this is where he was HAPPY to answer questions before). People were pissing him off for other reasons at the time. He was sick of the blog, because of SJW people on Tumblr. And he was already getting onery for the other reasons I mentioned earlier.

 

I was responding to Qun00's post more than yours. Not accusing you of anything personally, but it sounds like the fans have collectively mobbed him with questions for years. I can easily imagine him enjoying explaining about the game's setting early on, and that eventually becoming a chore. Just saying that he shouldn't be expected to continually satisfy everybody's curiosities after the game is released and he's moved on, much less be called anti-social and worse for not being at our beg and call.

 

And I really don't see what the difference is between a game writer and a book writer in this regard, no. Why should game writers in particular be expected to mix with their fan communities and answer questions left and right long after their games are out the door?



#1421
Qun00

Qun00
  • Members
  • 4 386 messages

Bombarding a writer with questions about his game and then complaining about him not baring the story's skeleton to you anymore just for asking seems entitled to say the least. It's his decision what to reveal and what not to, and as a reader/player you get what you get. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but what you're talking about crosses some serious boundaries between artist and audience. It's great if you guys had fun with it back in the day, but I'm 100% on his side if he doesn't want to do it anymore.


I put myself in his shoes and didn't see the issue. When someone asks me something, I only refuse to answer if it was rudely asked or if it's an absurd question.

But let's say it is wrong. Would it be too much to ask for the courtesy of a single reply saying "I can't/won't answer because [insert here]"?

Just once would suffice. To literally ignore you 100% of the time seems a little excessive.
  • straykat aime ceci

#1422
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

I put myself in his shoes and didn't see the issue. When someone asks me something, I only refuse to answer if it was rudely asked or if it's an absurd question.

But let's say it is wrong. Would it be too much to ask for the courtesy of a single reply saying "I can't/won't answer because [insert here]"?

Just once would suffice. To literally ignore you 100% of the time seems a little excessive.

 

Of course, no way sending individual messages to hundreds of curious fans who can't take a hint would in any way be bothersome. You totally have the right to expect that from him and should definitely take it personally. Not like he's just a normal person with a life of his own and the same amount of spare time and patience for social interaction as everybody else.



#1423
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

Of course, no way sending individual messages to hundreds of curious fans who can't take a hint would in any way be bothersome. You totally have the right to expect that from him and should definitely take it personally. Not like he's just a normal person with a life of his own and the same amount of spare time and patience for social interaction as everybody else.

 

You're being a little dramatic.

 

It used to be fairly normal.. given some time and courtesy. He WELCOMED IT. He had a blog dedicated to player questions (and other things, like sharing your art). You're treating it like he's some lofty person and we're all just uppity for presuming to talk.

 

Community relations went sour for worse things. Understandably, he got tired. People can't have good things. :)



#1424
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 messages

You're being a little dramatic.

 

It used to be fairly normal.. given some time and courtesy. He WELCOMED IT. He had a blog dedicated to player questions (and other things, like sharing your art). You're treating it like he's some lofty person and we're all just uppity for presuming to talk.

 

Community relations went sour for worse things. Understandably, he got tired. People can't have good things. :)

 

So what? I'm not saying it wasn't great while he welcomed it, but he still doesn't owe you guys anything and you have no right to take it personally if he doesn't want to play anymore. You're the ones being dramatic, as well as entitled. "The writer won't respond to all our questions" has to be the most ridiculous complaint I've ever seen on a fan forum.



#1425
straykat

straykat
  • Members
  • 9 196 messages

So what? I'm not saying it wasn't great while he welcomed it, but he still doesn't owe you guys anything and you have no right to take it personally if he doesn't want to play anymore. You're the ones being dramatic.

 

There you go again. Reading too much into what happened. First you assumed we "bombard" him with questions. Now you think I'm taking what Gaider did personally.

 

I didn't.

 

I'm taking you a little personally though. When you said you were "old fashioned" or something, it makes it sounds like I lack character. Just for asking a guy a question. He was cool with communicating with people once. He simply got burned out and some people probably spoiled it for him. But don't think it was regular people asking questions. If you have a bone to pick, find the people who hurl death threats at the devs. You should read RPGCodex, when Gaider used to post there.