1807 réponses à ce sujet

[ThomasBlaine]

You preserve an old god soul  and  since these souls emit the calling you don't know if as a result of it the darkspawn in Denerim will retreat or no,with the huge risk to be unsure if that process is really able to trick the darkspawns both by hiding the calling of the old god from them

(thus end the blight) and into being attracted to a child rather than a darkspawn.

The Ultimate sacrifice is not a tactical blunder in any event because is a military certainty who was tested several times.

 

 

From Gaiders own words the wardens are the only one who possess among the military the raw power to defeat the Archdemon without being turned into  ghouls,so unless you forgot that non-GW are vulnerable to the taint and that the one of the Archdemon is highly infective and can be emitted through his magical vortex i don't see how the weak Ferelden military could defeat him while he his protected by Darkspawns

Potential ghouls i will dare to say that may turn against you and serve the Archdemon.

There you have  more Archdemon killers that are unable to do anything until the Archdemon is defeated by the wardens.

 

 

Still contrary because you have to assume that once that the ritual is done the blight will end while perfectly aware that old god soul emit the calling that may keep those darkspawns in the battlefield.

 

Hah, now you're just making stuff up. And the Warden has no idea that s/he might be the only one with enough "raw power" to defeat the Archdemon. The notion is ridiculous from a realistic standpoint, for one thing. What "raw power" does my Dalish rogue have that any knight of Redcliffe doesn't? Any battle-tested dwarven warrior? I'm not saying it isn't true, but you can't possibly intend that the Warden consider his/her own superior "raw power" a strategic factor big enough to outweigh the allied troops having a shot at ending the Blight themselves if the Wardens fall.

 

Again, all the Warden knows about Old Gods is what Morrigan, Flemeth and Riordan tell him/her. Riordan has no idea that the Ritual is an option and isn't any kind of expert on arcane matters regardless, Flemeth has no opportunity to say anything on the subject, and Morrigan assures you that the Old God's soul infusing her unborn child will end the Blight, exactly like destroying it would. Your own pet hypothesis about how Old God souls function based on absolutely nothing don't really compare to her opinion no matter what her motives are, and speaking of motives alone she stakes her own life on it.

 

The Ultimate Sacrifice is a "military certainty who was tested several times" each time with thousands of Wardens present. It all hinges on a Grey Warden fighting their way to the Archdemon and slaying it, and with only three Grey Wardens on site that becomes rather more unlikely, and rather irresponsible to stake the country on when there's an alternative.

[Aren]

Hah, now you're just making stuff up. And the Warden has no idea that s/he might be the only one with enough "raw power" to defeat the Archdemon. The notion is ridiculous from a realistic standpoint, for one thing. What "raw power" does my Dalish rogue have that any knight of Redcliffe doesn't? Any battle-tested dwarven warrior? I'm not saying it isn't true, but you can't possibly intend that the Warden consider his/her own superior "raw power" a strategic factor big enough to outweigh the allied troops having a shot at ending the Blight themselves if the Wardens fall.

 

 

The grey wardens are the only one who possess the resistance against the blight an Archdemon can easily infect those who are not GW  that's why only GW have the power to approach more safely archdemons.

It does not matter how strong one is if it is not resistant to the taint.

 

The warden is aware that old gods emit the calling by preserving the soul you have no guarantee that the blight will end

unless you are ridiculously trying to convince everyone here that they should trust Morrigan with no proof whatsoever.

 

 

Do you even know how the others Archdemons were defeated?I think not.

Didn't Gharael killed Andhoral alone while the others GW were busy with the darkspawn?

Didn't Corin killed Zazikale with the sole help of Neria?

What about Loris and Toth?

GW are a special department which often operate in relative few numbers not in unit of thousands per archdemon.

[Domakir]

Hah, now you're just making stuff up. And the Warden has no idea that s/he might be the only one with enough "raw power" to defeat the Archdemon. The notion is ridiculous from a realistic standpoint, for one thing. What "raw power" does my Dalish rogue have that any knight of Redcliffe doesn't? Any battle-tested dwarven warrior? I'm not saying it isn't true, but you can't possibly intend that the Warden consider his/her own superior "raw power" a strategic factor big enough to outweigh the allied troops having a shot at ending the Blight themselves if the Wardens fall.

Again, all the Warden knows about Old Gods is what Morrigan, Flemeth and Riordan tell him/her. Riordan has no idea that the Ritual is an option and isn't any kind of expert on arcane matters regardless, Flemeth has no opportunity to say anything on the subject, and Morrigan assures you that the Old God's soul infusing her unborn child will end the Blight, exactly like destroying it would. Your own pet hypothesis about how Old God souls function based on absolutely nothing don't really compare to her opinion no matter what her motives are, and speaking of motives alone she stakes her own life on it.

The Ultimate Sacrifice is a "military certainty who was tested several times" each time with thousands of Wardens present. It all hinges on a Grey Warden fighting their way to the Archdemon and slaying it, and with only three Grey Wardens on site that becomes rather more unlikely, and rather irresponsible to stake the country on when there's an alternative.

But once again it depends on how much you trust Morrigan's word. For a warden that doesn't trust her or that disagree with her the DR is a dangerous option rather than a chance to end the Blight without any sacrifices.

[Aren]

But once again it depends on how much you trust Morrigan's word. For a warden that doesn't trust her or that disagree with her the DR is a dangerous option rather than a chance to end the Blight without any sacrifices.

 

I think that the post completely derailed here

 

 Your own pet hypothesis about how Old God souls function based on absolutely nothing don't really compare to her opinion no matter what her motives are, and speaking of motives alone she stakes her own life on it.

 

 

Why the Warden should trust someone who deceived him and is deliberately withholding informations with obscure intentions that they don't want to disclose,  to gain the equivalent of a magical nuclear weapon for a plan developed by Flemeth the abomination,  when they can't present proof of their credibility and goodwill other than their own word which is worth nothing since they are amoral and tend to lie by omission a lot?

Love,Desperation and selfishness i guess all things from whom a rational warden is unaffected.

[ThomasBlaine]

 

I think that the post completely derailed here

Why the Warden should trust someone who deceived him and is deliberately withholding informations with obscure intentions that they don't want to disclose,  to gain the equivalent of a magical nuclear weapon for a plan developed by Flemeth the abomination,  when they can't present proof of their credibility and goodwill other than their own word which is worth nothing since they are amoral and tend to lie by omission a lot?

Love,Desperation and selfishness i guess all things from whom a rational warden is unaffected.

 

 

All things from which a noble Grey Warden conspiracy theorist is unaffected, you mean. I tend to play rather more down-to-earth Wardens who deal with the choices before them without confusing themselves by pretending that they know enough about magic to second-guess Morrigan. And as a rule, my characters do trust her despite her secrecy. You know, having fought beside her and depended on her for their survival for a year.

[Natureguy85]

And I was just sorta like, I feel for you and all that but Loghain's head on a platter isn't going to solve anything. You can be as angry as all get out, and yet, you shouldn't kill someone just because you are mad at them. I mean, it's certainly happened, but it just didn't seem to make sense there so I opted against it, seemed to work well, IMHO.

 

Alistair is not killing Loghain just because he's mad at him. He's executing him for crimes. That doesn't mean it's not better to use Loghain for the Blight, but let's at least lay out the situation correctly.

 

 

I also tend to kick Morrigan out of my team eventually. So she comes back unwelcomed. I have reasons to dislike her, way before this. lol

 

I didn't kick her out and was romancing her so I didn't think anything of seeing her in that room and thought it was weird that there was a dialogue option something like "you shouldn't be here." It wasn't until later that I knew she would leave if I didn't deal with Flemeth. In that situation it would be weird to see her again.

 

 

 

Ah Dwarf Commoner, possibly the best Origin.

 

I think it's of the worst, and I do like it. It's just A Knight's Tale. Human Noble ties a bit more to events but isn't anything special. Points for automatic Dog though. Mage is interesting because of Jowan's betrayal and several options in how to act. Dalish Elf is interesting because of the Illuvian, even if doesn't explore the Dalish themselves very much. City Elf changes depending on if you're male or female, which is awesome. And Dwarf Noble is a story of intrigue to go with the betrayal, setting up an entire arm of the game.

 

 

What makes the ultimate sacrifice unacceptable for me is the fact that you defeated the enemy in battle but in order to finish him you have to die.

I'm willing to accept death if i'm defeated but  not if i won.

I'm not willing to accept a forced sacrifice for some magical strawberries  created into a narrative full of plot holes for  Morrigan's dark ritual.

Neither she will use me and neither i will die because she failed to use me.

 

Well fortunately for you, there is a spare Warden.

 

 

 

I don't think Morrigan would miss any potential argument in favor of this idea. She's been actively working towards this for at least a year, and planning for it her whole life. She's almost certainly not coming up with her arguments on the spot; Flemeth probably gave her a basic script years ago with a caveat that she should alter the script in her head as she came to know who she was trying to persuade and what might persuade that person to make questionable choices to save their own life. If she doesn't make this argument, it's probably because it isn't true.

 

It's likely the writers didn't think of it either. Can you think of a good reason why it wouldn't be the case?

 

 

 

Your argumentation does not make sense,the warden is perfectly aware at the moment of making the decision that the ritual will not destroy the soul and  they can decide that is still not worth the risk to summon Chtulu for a pseudo tactical advantage,a Chutulu that could be far worse than the Archdemon.

Being able or attempt to predict the fallouts beforehand is integral part of being a commander.

 

 

Long term consequences only matter if you make it that far. And you really don't have anything on which to predict the fallouts. That's what I like about it.

[ThomasBlaine]

 

The grey wardens are the only one who possess the resistance against the blight an Archdemon can easily infect those who are not GW  that's why only GW have the power to approach more safely archdemons.

It does not matter how strong one is if it is not resistant to the taint.

 

The warden is aware that old gods emit the calling by preserving the soul you have no guarantee that the blight will end

unless you are ridiculously trying to convince everyone here that they should trust Morrigan with no proof whatsoever.

 

 

Do you even know how the others Archdemons were defeated?I think not.

Didn't Gharael killed Andhoral alone while the others GW were busy with the darkspawn?

Didn't Corin killed Zazikale with the sole help of Neria?

What about Loris and Toth?

GW are a special department which often operate in relative few numbers not in unit of thousands per archdemon.

 

 

Absolutely nothing in the game indicates to the Warden that normal soldiers instantly turn into ghouls upon approaching the Archdemon, or that the procedure for defeating an Archdemon is to inexplicably send heroes at it one by one or in pairs hoping for one of them to best it in single combat. Now you really are being ridiculous.

 

Whatever, we've established that in your games the Warden somehow feels confident enough to argue with Morrigan about the mechanics of Old Gods and how darkspawn are attracted to them based on a brief, entirely general description by a third party even less trustworthy than she is. In my games that isn't the case. Hallelujah.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just arguing why I don't think the Dark Ritual necessarily is an unreasonable choice, or that the Ultimate Sacrifice is a natural one.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It's likely the writers didn't think of it either. Can you think of a good reason why it wouldn't be the case?

Because the essence first goes to the Warden (which necessitates that there be a Warden,) and then to the fetus, like Word of Gaider says. It's not the way I would have expected it to work, but it's apparently the way it was pictured working when the dialogue was written. Which does explain Morrigan not raising this argument without needing to get too complicated or meta.

[Seraphim24]

Alistair is not killing Loghain just because he's mad at him. He's executing him for crimes. That doesn't mean it's not better to use Loghain for the Blight, but let's at least lay out the situation correctly.

 

Were they crimes? Loghain was lord and protector or the realm so to speak when he did most of what he did, I'm not sure his actions would break the legal definitions since he was kind of the enforcer of them.

[ThomasBlaine]

Because the essence first goes to the Warden (which necessitates that there be a Warden,) and then to the fetus, like Word of Gaider says. It's not the way I would have expected it to work, but it's apparently the way it was pictured working when the dialogue was written. Which does explain Morrigan not raising this argument without needing to get too complicated or meta.

 

Why would the essence need to first go through a Warden? If it doesn't make any sense then I see no reason to take the author's original, unexpressed intention for it as canon.

 

Every time someone says "Word of Gaider" I get that feeling you get upon hearing members of cults or support groups use esoteric terms they've conditioned themselves to define the world by as if they're universally respected. Creeps me the hell out.

[Aren]

Whatever, we've established that in your games the Warden somehow feels confident enough to argue with Morrigan about the mechanics of Old Gods and how darkspawn are attracted to them based on a brief, entirely general description by a third party even less trustworthy than she is. In my games that isn't the case. Hallelujah.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything,

Riordan said a Grey Warden had to strike the killing blow, that doing so would kill the Warden as well, and that as the senior Warden present it would fall on him to make the sacrifice.

So yeah, he outright said he'd be willing to die to kill the archdemon, and the Warden and Alistair/Loghain were backups. Unless killing the archdemon really meant PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER to whoever does the deed, I can't imagine a reason to lie about that.

Also Morrigan isn't an expert on Old gods she knows nothing about them.

[Aren]

Long term consequences only matter if you make it that far. And you really don't have anything on which to predict the fallouts. That's what I like about it.

Some fallouts can be predicted like the one of Flemeth's return since this was her plan.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Why would the essence need to first go through a Warden? If it doesn't make any sense then I see no reason to take the author's original, unexpressed intention for it as canon.

 

Every time someone says "Word of Gaider" I get that feeling you get upon hearing members of cults or support groups use esoteric terms they've conditioned themselves to define the world by as if they're universally respected. Creeps me the hell out.

Yeah, and I've been trying to cut back on it for this reason. Unless I think there's something to point to to back it up, in which case it arguably approaches canon.

 

I don't know why the DR would work that way, and as I stated last post I wouldn't expect it to unless given a reason to. But it really does seem to me like something like that being in effect is the Occam's Razor in-universe explanation for why she doesn't argue that this can allow anyone to kill the Archdemon. Yeah, there's other credible reasons, but they require you to assume that Morrigan either doesn't understand caring about other people at all (which she clearly does since she uses your feelings for your LI as a weapon) or just forgets a major reason that a good person could (and arguably should) do the Ritual.

[ThomasBlaine]

Riordan said a Grey Warden had to strike the killing blow, that doing so would kill the Warden as well, and that as the senior Warden present it would fall on him to make the sacrifice.

So yeah, he outright said he'd be willing to die to kill the archdemon, and the Warden and Alistair/Loghain were backups. Unless killing the archdemon really meant PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER to whoever does the deed, I can't imagine a reason to lie about that.

Also Morrigan isn't an expert on Old gods she knows nothing about them.

 

Yes, yes, I get it. You think that that three Wardens is enough to reliably end up with one of them killing the Archdemon, that that's worth betting Ferelden on, and that Morrigan is a schemer and you can't trust anything she says even on subjects she is much more knowledgeable about than you. You know, having studied under an immortal abomination her entire life, being an expert mage and having read magical tomes detailing how to infuse babies with gods. But no, clearly she knows nothing about any of that and you do. Good for you.

 

Yeah, and I've been trying to cut back on it for this reason. Unless I think there's something to point to to back it up, in which case it arguably approaches canon.

 

I don't know why the DR would work that way, and as I stated last post I wouldn't expect it to unless given a reason to. But it really does seem like something like that being in effect is the Occam's Razor in-universe explanation for why she doesn't argue that this can allow anyone to kill the Archdemon. Yeah, there's other credible reasons, but they require you to assume that Morrigan either doesn't understand caring about other people at all (which she clearly does since she uses your feelings for your LI as a weapon) or just forgets a major reason that a good person could (and arguably should) do the Ritual.

 

Well, I find that Morrigan forgetting to underline that point rather than merely imply it over the course of an intense and emotional conversation is a simpler idea than the Ritual having a weird and illogical mechanical clause that she doesn't mention at all.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well, I find that Morrigan forgetting to underline that point rather than merely imply it over the course of an intense and emotional conversation is a simpler idea than the Ritual having a weird and illogical mechanical clause that she doesn't mention at all.

In the first game we have Zathrian binding the spirit of a forest into a wolf, and that causing werewolves and making Zathrian immortal. The second gives us Orsino merging with a bunch of corpses to turn himself into a monster. In the third we have an ancient magister with the power to resurrect himself giving part of himself to a dragon, and the dragon dying weakening him instead of giving him back some of his previous power. Which is represented by an orb of light flying out of the dying dragon and hitting said ancient magister. And we learn that the dragon dying will have this effect by drinking from a well that connects us to whispering voices at the cost of giving Mythal control of our bodies.

 

The upshot of which is that this isn't one of the settings where magic not working logically is all that remarkable.

 

And while we're on the subject of what Morrigan implies, I don't remember her implying that a non-Warden can kill the Archdemon if the DR is done. She says things from which one could logically induce that, but that's arguably not her implying anything. In fact, you could argue she implies the opposite when she specifically mentions "the Warden who kills the Archdemon" (her exact words to the best of my memory) not having to die without saying that it doesn't even have to be a Warden.

[Natureguy85]

Because the essence first goes to the Warden (which necessitates that there be a Warden,) and then to the fetus, like Word of Gaider says. It's not the way I would have expected it to work, but it's apparently the way it was pictured working when the dialogue was written. Which does explain Morrigan not raising this argument without needing to get too complicated or meta.

 

Is there anything to suggest that in the game dialogue? Morrigan says the soul will be drawn to the child like a beacon. This implies it will go right there. That WoG sounds like an excuse to cover up this minor plot hole.

 

 

Were they crimes? Loghain was lord and protector or the realm so to speak when he did most of what he did, I'm not sure his actions would break the legal definitions since he was kind of the enforcer of them.

 

I forget exactly how it works, but doesn't the Bannorn hold a lot of power? Isn't the Landsmeet all about determining if the actions were crimes?

 

 

 

Riordan said a Grey Warden had to strike the killing blow, that doing so would kill the Warden as well, and that as the senior Warden present it would fall on him to make the sacrifice.

So yeah, he outright said he'd be willing to die to kill the archdemon, and the Warden and Alistair/Loghain were backups. Unless killing the archdemon really meant PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER to whoever does the deed, I can't imagine a reason to lie about that.

Also Morrigan isn't an expert on Old gods she knows nothing about them.

 

 

 

Anyway, how, at least at the time, do you know Morrigan knows nothing about the Old Gods? Surely she learned something about them when learning the ritual.

 

 

Some fallouts can be predicted like the one of Flemeth's return since this was her plan.

 

Flemeth's return is not dependent on the Dark Ritual. What should be predicted from the DR?

[ThomasBlaine]

In the first game we have Zathrian binding the spirit of a forest into a wolf, and that causing werewolves and making Zathrian immortal. The second gives us Orsino merging with a bunch of corpses to turn himself into a monster. In the third we have an ancient magister with the power to resurrect himself giving part of himself to a dragon, and the dragon dying weakening him instead of giving him back some of his previous power. Which is represented by an orb of light flying out of the dying dragon and hitting said ancient magister. And we learn that the dragon dying will have this effect by drinking from a well that connects us to whispering voices at the cost of giving Mythal control of our bodies.

 

The upshot of which is that this isn't one of the settings where magic not working logically is all that remarkable.

 

And while we're on the subject of what Morrigan implies, I don't remember her implying that a non-Warden can kill the Archdemon if the DR is done. She says things from which one could logically induce that, but that's arguably not her implying anything. In fact, you could argue she implies the opposite when she specifically mentions "the Warden who kills the Archdemon" (her exact words to the best of my memory) not having to die without saying that it doesn't even have to be a Warden.

 

All very well, but picking weird and illogical ways for a specific kind of magic to work out of the blue and then using that to set your priorities isn't the natural response to knowing that you can't predict magic yourself.

 

And what she says is "I offer a way out. A way out for all the Grey Wardens, that there need be no sacrifice." And later: "The Archdemon is still destroyed, with no Grey Warden dying in the process."

 

As I said, I've watched the entire conversation keeping this possibility in mind and found it plausible that she just forgot to underline the point due to nerves. She really does sound strung up, and her various pauses while replying to the Warden's questions make it clear that she isn't as well prepared as she maybe thought she was.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

All very well, but picking weird and illogical ways for a specific kind of magic to work out of the blue and then using that to set your priorities isn't the natural response to knowing that you can't predict magic yourself.

Wait, are we arguing about how it does work or how the Warden could think it works? Obviously the Warden could well figure the ritual would let anyone do it, and arguably would conclude that after a few minutes thought, but I thought we were trying to figure out how it actually does work.

[ThomasBlaine]

Wait, are we arguing about how it does work or how the Warden could think it works? Obviously the Warden could well figure the ritual would let anyone do it, and arguably would conclude that after a few minutes thought, but I thought we were trying to figure out how it actually does work.

 

Both, in a sense. Gaider says, and I agree, that it's left ambigious enough that we can decide for ourselves which way the ritual actually works, which I take as that we can treat it one way or the other however we want depending on how it serves each Waden's story. I don't intend to ever make use of this device myself, considering self-preservation and the reproductive drive pretty strong motivations already, but I stand by others having the option to canonically justify the Dark Ritual as a sound tactical decision if they want to.

 

Aside from that, I'm arguing that it's plausible for Wardens to take Morrigan at her word without making up unqualified magical theories of their own to contradict her expert's opinion, and Aren is arguing that it isn't. Or that he doesn't. Or that nobody should because she's a liar liar pants on fire. It's hard to tell. Better ask him.

[straykat]

I don't think she's a liar. But I think she's a witch... In both senses of the term. Of course, she's dismissive of any concerns. She writes everyone off as being fearful of the unknown. She makes everyone else out to be petty, but time and again, she's the most petty character there is. I don't have to list all the examples.

 

So while I might admire her talent, I don't admire her judgement.

 

But i said I'd entertain this if the benefit was as great as you stated. But I'd do it feeling like a crap about it. I wouldn't think the advantage I got out of it erased what I did.

[Seraphim24]

I forget exactly how it works, but doesn't the Bannorn hold a lot of power? Isn't the Landsmeet all about determining if the actions were crimes?

 

I don't know really, but yeah basically I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of so-and-so's "crimes" were actually legal according to X/Y/Z.

[ThomasBlaine]

I don't know really, but yeah basically I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of so-and-so's "crimes" were actually legal according to X/Y/Z.

 

There seems to be a vague consensus among the nobility that slave trade isn't a thing in Ferelden. Probably means that it's illegal.

 

And much as I think he does the right thing, there's no possible way that a medieval general has the legal authority to give his monarch up for dead like that. Loghain is most likely sworn to defend Cailan's life with his own a dozen times over, as is every man under his command. His decision at Ostagar really is treason. And treason is pretty much universally punishable by death.

[straykat]

It is treason.. but so are all power grabs..  and it's legal if you win.

 

He just didn't win.

 

Legalism aside, I think he's ultimately in the right. He espouses meritocracy. He hates nobles and the bannorn. He came from nothing and became the hero of River Bane..He's the missing Human Commoner origin. He promotes farm girls like Cauthrien. His world is ultimately better. He's just a man before his time... and went about it wrongly.

[Illegitimus]

Wait, are we arguing about how it does work or how the Warden could think it works? Obviously the Warden could well figure the ritual would let anyone do it, and arguably would conclude that after a few minutes thought, but I thought we were trying to figure out how it actually does work.

 

 

Well I figure the way it DOES work is that the tainted soul passes through the tainted body of the Warden, and uses it as a filter so that it can travel into the freshly conceived fetus without tainting it and the mother.  And I figure what the Warden would figure is that they can't take the chance of letting a non-warden take the final blow because the Ritual might not do anything at all.  

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Both, in a sense. Gaider says, and I agree, that it's left ambigious enough that we can decide for ourselves which way the ritual actually works, which I take as that we can treat it one way or the other however we want depending on how it serves each Waden's story. I don't intend to ever make use of this device myself, considering self-preservation and the reproductive drive pretty strong motivations already, but I stand by others having the option to canonically justify the Dark Ritual as a sound tactical decision if they want to.

Well, from an RP perspective I'll certainly give you that the Warden can believe that, and that a Warden who believes that could arguably feel justified making the situation that much less desperate by turning a situation where literally three people have any chance of perma-killing the Archdemon into one where there are maybe a thousand people with a tiny chance of doing so, some of whom are mages and archers. (As much as I agree that trusting Morrigan to know what she's doing and trusting her to have the best interests of the world at heart are both questionable, I really think Aren is underselling the amount of tactical disadvantage this would nullify if the Ritual did work that way. Especially if the Circle was recruited.)

 

As for the rest, the thing is that while we have his permission to pick and choose meanings, I picture Dragon Age's canon as a set world that we only have a very limited influence over, and picture the way magic works (and every other facet) as something we work out from what we see rather than something we get to pick for ourselves. Certainly I can't wrap my head around the rules being different depending on what we want them to be during this playthrough.

 

And while I agree that we don't have nearly as much as I'd like to go on and therefore maybe I shouldn't be selling this conclusion as confidently as I have been, we'd be somewhat more likely to see Morrigan not tell the Warden that the Ritual works this way if the Ritual doesn't work this way.

 

 

Aside from that, I'm arguing that it's plausible for Wardens to take Morrigan at her word without making up unqualified magical theories of their own to contradict her expert's opinion, and Aren is arguing that it isn't. Or that he doesn't. Or that nobody should because she's a liar liar pants on fire. It's hard to tell. Better ask him.

He's arguing that it's plausible to not think Morrigan knows what she's doing (which is a bit of a reach in-character, though if we're willing to get a bit meta this idea gets some support in DA:I) and to question whether she has the best interests of the world at large at heart (we see in-character evidence that she doesn't every time she opens her mouth in the entire first game, and in Inquisition she seems to view preserving magical beings as innately worth doing no matter how dangerous they are. This extends to dragons, which are ridiculously dangerous in this setting in terms of both power and maliciousness.)

 

And if you're willing to get really meta, the ending scene of Inquisition taken with how the scene with Flemeth plays out if you did the DR seems to imply that

Spoiler

Solas has it. I don't suppose I need to get into why I think Solas having a new source of magical power is a bad thing?