1807 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

There seems to be a vague consensus among the nobility that slave trade isn't a thing in Ferelden. Probably means that it's illegal.

 

And much as I think he does the right thing, there's no possible way that a medieval general has the legal authority to give his monarch up for dead like that. Loghain is most likely sworn to defend Cailan's life with his own a dozen times over, as is every man under his command. His decision at Ostagar really is treason. And treason is pretty much universally punishable by death.

 

It was with Alienage Elves though which are treated separately as a general rule......

 

Also, while it's true that actions in battle were harshly scrutinized (See, Saxon generals after the Battle of Grunwald to the guy who mucked with the surrender flag), that for example was a clear instance of well.. it was an unusual situation, this is still the fictional world of Thedas, it's not really made clear.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It was with Alienage Elves though which are treated separately as a general rule.....

That doesn't seem to matter. You can explictly state that they were elves, and he still gets called out on it. As far as I can recall the two options to call Loghain out refer to either "Ferelden citizen" or "elves" and either way Loghain makes explicit they were elves. He still loses Wulff's support and doesn't try to make any legal argument to the effect that elves are fair game, and while it doesn't score you as many points as getting him denounced by the Grand Cleric or his daughter I think the scoring system counts it as striking a blow against him in the debate.

[Seraphim24]

That doesn't seem to matter. It's made clear that these are elves when you bring it up at the Landsmeet, and he still gets called out on it. To the best of my memory the dialogue can vary between "What's this? There is no slavery in Ferelden! Explain yourself" and "Selling elves? Explain this!" (I think it depends on what stage of the debate you bring it up at.)

 

I'd imagine even if there was no precedent for it, a good portion of Ferelden would be more favorable to it, on the basis that it's well, Elves, and are already at times in specific circumstances subjected to specific treatment.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I'd imagine even if there was no precedent for it, a good portion of Ferelden would be more favorable to it, on the basis that it's well, Elves, and are already at times in specific circumstances subjected to specific treatment.

Apparently it counts as a persuasive argument against Loghain at the Landsmeet if you show Eamon the papers proving it beforehand. So while a lot of people would care less, there aren't enough people who view it as acceptable enough to say that Loghain can get off this way.

[Aren]

Yes, yes, I get it. You think that that three Wardens is enough to reliably end up with one of them killing the Archdemon, that that's worth betting Ferelden on, and that Morrigan is a schemer and you can't trust anything she says even on subjects she is much more knowledgeable about than you. You know, having studied under an immortal abomination her entire life, being an expert mage and having read magical tomes detailing how to infuse babies with gods. But no, clearly she knows nothing about any of that and you do. Good for you.

 

 

The prowess of the army more than the numbers of GW is the crux of the matter.

It seems that you didn't understood that GW always fought against Archdemons in few numbers because they are only needed to kill the beast while the army do the rest in fact Riordan a senior warden thought there were good chances to win and he was right.

 

 

 

If you referenced to the Grimoire when you mentioned the book i think i don't even need to point out how she misunderstood it for 9 years.

Morrigan knows nothing of the mechanics of the soul transfer she is totally ignorant about it as she admit by herself when she talk about Corypheus ability,that her witch mother tought her the ritual doesn't mean that she understood  how the archdemons or Corypheus transfer their souls.

[Aren]

 

 

 

Anyway, how, at least at the time, do you know Morrigan knows nothing about the Old Gods? Surely she learned something about them when learning the ritual.

 

 

 

Flemeth's return is not dependent on the Dark Ritual. What should be predicted from the DR?

RP wise she does not provide reasons for their salvation in Redclieffe which can be interpreted

(correct interpretation metagame wise) that she wish to preserve stuff from whom she know nothing about regardless of the dangers.

 

Flemeth return with or without the ritual but without it you can be sure that she will gain nothing since this was her plan and can be easly predicted that she will try to claim the price for it and it is what happened.

 

[ThomasBlaine]

I'd imagine even if there was no precedent for it, a good portion of Ferelden would be more favorable to it, on the basis that it's well, Elves, and are already at times in specific circumstances subjected to specific treatment.

 

That's different. Vaughn fouling his own nest by mistreating a few of the elves directly under his power is one thing, Arl Howe setting up a trade agreement to sell Fereldan citizens and labor to a much-reviled foreign country en masse is another.

 

At that level it becomes a political issue, potentially disrupting Ferelden's foreign relations(something neither Loghain nor Howe clearly give a figg about) by breaking diplomatic treatises with and offending all the neighboring countries who really really really don't like Tevinter or their practices. Orlais would be far more justified calling an Exalted March on Ferelden for fueling their enemy superpower with blood slaves than it would at the dwarves becoming more open for trade, for example.

 

The existence of the Alienages themselves implies that the elves are recognized as having some part to play in Ferelden's economy, and if anti-slavery is a strong part of the national identity then that would cause outrage all by itself. And I'm not very well-read on Andrastian lore, but given Andraste's war on the Tevinters and presumably slavery too, Andraste being Fereldan and Ferelden being a very Andrastian country, it might even be a religious offense. Which would also make it even more provoking to Orlais, the ultimate seat of the Chantry right next door who are itching for an excuse to reclaim their eastern neighbor.

 

Assuming that Ferelden politicians as a rule are more aware of the political landscape than Loghain, they have very good reason to be pissed. Arl Eamon being the one to spearhead the attack on Loghain's authority especially makes sense, him living practically on top of the Orlesian border and being married to the daughter of the Orlesian governor who previously occupied his lands.

[Qun00]

Are city elves considered real Fereldan people? Not just on paper, but by the human population.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Are city elves considered real Fereldan people? Not just on paper, but by the human population.

Well, the nobles clearly consider them to be close enough to real people that what Loghain does counts as a black mark.

[Aren]

Well, the nobles clearly consider them to be close enough to real people that what Loghain does counts as a black mark.

I'm unsure about it,slavery is practiced in Ferelden even if it is illegal.

I thought that the nobles were more mad at Loghain because he allowed a battalion of Tevinter soldiers to be in Denerim.

[ThomasBlaine]

Are city elves considered real Fereldan people? Not just on paper, but by the human population.

 

Well, the nobles clearly consider them to be close enough to real people that what Loghain does counts as a black mark.

 

I don't think it's as much a matter of sympathy for the elves themselves as principle and politics. The outrage at the Landsmeet is more a stand against slave-trading than a stand for elves.

 

But even aside from that, every major city has an Alienage maintained and governed by the city where elves do menial labor for real wages, albeit low ones, and are taxed by their lords who are taxed by the Crown. It's impossible to have a setup like that without the people at the top recognizing those at the bottom as at least being part of the system.

 

Contrast the way things work in Orzammar, where there's a complete economical disconnect between classes and the general population practically wish that there were someone they could sell all their bottom-feeders to.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 

I'm unsure about it,slavery is practiced in Ferelden even if it is illegal.

I thought that the nobles were more mad at Loghain because he allowed a battalion of Tevinter soldiers to be in Denerim.

 

You don't actually tell them that, and they don't seem to have worked it out judging by Sighard's specific objections to it. But yeah, if they do know about that I doubt they're pleased.

 

I don't remember exactly how slavery is practiced in Ferelden. Refresh my memory, where do we find that again?

[straykat]

Ferelden, with all of their faults, is against slavery. You gotta give them some credit. Their legacy is Andraste and barbarians and years of freedom fighting. They're not the hoity toity nobles of Orlais. They might be indifferent with elves, but I think they're trying somewhat. And even years back and being next door to Orlais, they never even helped with the Dales. Think about that. And even I think the elves willingly got in over their heads that time.

 

They could use a push though.

[Natureguy85]

 

RP wise she does not provide reasons for their salvation in Redclieffe which can be interpreted

(correct interpretation metagame wise) that she wish to preserve stuff from whom she know nothing about regardless of the dangers.

 

Flemeth return with or without the ritual but without it you can be sure that she will gain nothing since this was her plan and can be easly predicted that she will try to claim the price for it and it is what happened.

 

 

 

I think your first sentence is saying she doesn't say why she wants the child. You could interpret it that she doesn't know the consequences, but the simpler interpretation is that she does know and just isn't telling the Warden. Now, she could always be wrong, as is often the case in fiction, but she at least thinks she knows what she is doing.

 

You may be right on the second point and certainly are if you let Flemeth go. But if you killed her, the Warden really doesn't know what she is and is surprised when Morrigan mentions her at the end of Witch Hunt.

[Aren]

You don't actually tell them that, and they don't seem to have worked it out judging by Sighard's specific objections to it. But yeah, if they do know about that I doubt they're pleased.

 

I don't remember exactly how slavery is practiced in Ferelden. Refresh my memory, where do we find that again?

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Ferelden

It is described the Ferelden legal system where it is said that criminals practice slavery in secrecy.

 

 

 

 

 

You may be right on the second point and certainly are if you let Flemeth go. But if you killed her, the Warden really doesn't know what she is and is surprised when Morrigan mentions her at the end of Witch Hunt.

The warden was warned that she was not dead and Flemeth made  clear that she was expecting your return but remained to wait you rather than flee which mean that she didn't feared her own death.This ritual is from Flemeth so the first thing i expect from her is to check which warden killed the Archdemon and if it is alive or not,with that intel she quickly discover if the DR  is done or not and go to search Morrigan in the former case, this are all things that the warden can predict.

[Natureguy85]

The warden was warned that she was not dead and Flemeth made  clear that she was expecting your return but remained to wait you rather than flee which mean that she didn't feared her own death.This ritual is from Flemeth so the first thing i expect from her is to check which warden killed the Archdemon and if it is alive or not,with that intel she quickly discover if the DR  is done or not and go to search Morrigan in the former case, this are all things that the warden can predict.

 

 

They will be nothing more than guesses and you don't know what the consequences of those actions would be.

[ThomasBlaine]

Well, from an RP perspective I'll certainly give you that the Warden can believe that, and that a Warden who believes that could arguably feel justified making the situation that much less desperate by turning a situation where literally three people have any chance of perma-killing the Archdemon into one where there are maybe a thousand people with a tiny chance of doing so, some of whom are mages and archers. (As much as I agree that trusting Morrigan to know what she's doing and trusting her to have the best interests of the world at heart are both questionable, I really think Aren is underselling the amount of tactical disadvantage this would nullify if the Ritual did work that way. Especially if the Circle was recruited.)

 

As for the rest, the thing is that while we have his permission to pick and choose meanings, I picture Dragon Age's canon as a set world that we only have a very limited influence over, and picture the way magic works (and every other facet) as something we work out from what we see rather than something we get to pick for ourselves. Certainly I can't wrap my head around the rules being different depending on what we want them to be during this playthrough.

 

That's a fair point of view.

 

I'd argue that the origin system makes headcanon an integral part of DA:O, already changing the unmentioned facts of the setting depending on what kind of story we feel like telling ourselves each playthrough. Extending that logic to other things left ambiguous seems natural enough to me. I have lots of little and big things occupying the blank spaces in the story every time I start and finish a new game, fancies and theories and neat material I pick up in fanfictions which fit and strengthen the narrative I'm going for. The game's setting lends itself incredibly well to that, and it's one of my favorite things about playing it.

[straykat]

That's a fair point of view.

 

I'd argue that the origin system makes headcanon an integral part of DA:O, already changing the unmentioned facts of the setting depending on what kind of story we feel like telling ourselves each playthrough. Extending that logic to other things left ambiguous seems natural enough to me. I have lots of little and big things occupying the blank spaces in the story every time I start and finish a new game, fancies and theories and neat material I pick up in fanfictions which fit and strengthen the narrative I'm going for. The game's setting lends itself incredibly well to that, and it's one of my favorite things about playing it.

 

Origins are a big reason I went with the US (but the same could be said for Loghain or the DR). I just didn't want to get into it, so I gave my neutral reason across all origins. The whole ground could shift around these personal storyarcs.

[Qun00]

I would never dare to tamper with the game's lore. That is the writers' creation.

The furthest I may go is coming up with my character's background and some minor headcanon about his off-screen actions. Nothing that would be easily destroyed by the information present in a new DA game.

[ThomasBlaine]

I would never dare to tamper with the game's lore. That is the writers' creation.

The furthest I may go is coming up with my character's background and some minor headcanon about his off-screen actions. Nothing that would be easily destroyed by the information present in a new DA game.

 

Of course. Because headcanon, being in your head rather than written and coded into 20 gigabytes of videogame constructed over thousands of working hours and sent to millions of homes, obviously can't be instantly adjusted to accommodate new lore.

 

Assuming you pay for your games, I daresay you have the right to play them however you damn well please. You don't owe the creators some kind of imaginary authority over parts of it they haven't defined yet. In retrospect though, this kind of explains why you have such a problem with Gaider's "decide for yourself" approach to clarifying fan questions, which in fact encourages this mindset.

 

It's your deal, but I personally think you'll enjoy the game more if you let go of that particular piece of baggage. The developers might get some peace if more people did too.

[Qun00]

That's because I usually take Gaider's "decide for yourself" as "Don't know. Don't care. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯".

[ThomasBlaine]

That's because I usually take Gaider's "decide for yourself" as "Don't know. Don't care. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯".

 

And what difference should that make to you?

[straykat]

I would never dare to tamper with the game's lore. That is the writers' creation.

The furthest I may go is coming up with my character's background and some minor headcanon about his off-screen actions. Nothing that would be easily destroyed by the information present in a new DA game.

 

Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention..

 

I don't want to outright invent things either. I use whatever is in the game as a springboard.

 

Like my Dalish killed those humans in the beginning. He eventually feels guilty over it.

[straykat]

And what difference should that make to you?

 

These games were a give and take affair before. They weren't Bethesda. Anyone who is a fan of Bioware should be sad at his change in attitude.

 

If I wanted to write my own stories completely, I'd literally write my own stories. I don't need the help. And I don't need to play games for it. As it is, I'm here just as much to be entertained by someone else's ideas.

[Natureguy85]

 

If I wanted to write my own stories completely, I'd literally write my own stories. I don't need the help. And I don't need to play games for it. As it is, I'm here just as much to be entertained by someone else's ideas.

 

I do. That's why I'm an editor and not an author!