1807 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

I do. That's why I'm an editor and not an author!

 

Well, I didn't say I was good necessarily.

 

I probably DO need the help. Just not in that way.

[Natureguy85]

Well, I didn't say I was good necessarily.

 

I probably DO need the help. Just not in that way.

 

 

Well, here you go

 

 

[straykat]

Well, here you go

 

 

 

Well, it's not my thing. I'm not knocking it though.

 

What I mean is, if I want to be original, I'll start with a clean slate. Completely my own premise. Games aren't usually good for this (especially these). And fan fiction is what it is... being a fan of something.

[Natureguy85]

Well, it's not my thing. I'm not knocking it though.

 

What I mean is, if I want to be original, I'll start with a clean slate. Completely my own premise. Games aren't usually good for this (especially these). And fan fiction is what it is... being a fan of something.

 

Oh I was just posting a silly video. Did you watch it? The series is funny.

[straykat]

Damn.. sorry.. watching it now.

[ThomasBlaine]

These games were a give and take affair before. They weren't Bethesda. Anyone who is a fan of Bioware should be sad at his change in attitude.

 

Why?

 

If I wanted to write my own stories completely, I'd literally write my own stories. I don't need the help. And I don't need to play games for it. As it is, I'm here just as much to be entertained by someone else's ideas.

 

Obviously. But how does any of that prevent you from filling in the story's gaps in your own head if that's what you feel like doing? The game already forces you do it with the protagonist. What you're coming with there is pretty much an argument against the inherent structure of roleplaying games - relying on the player to imagine to their own satisfaction what the story doesn't make explicit.

 

Is this a thing, people being afraid to seem as if they're stepping on the writers' toes creatively? Even when the writers are telling you to walk wherever you like? I'm getting that culture clash feeling again.

[Qun00]

And what difference should that make to you?

Well, if it isn't intended as a serious answer then it's completely useless to me.

Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention..

I don't want to outright invent things either. I use whatever is in the game as a springboard.

Like my Dalish killed those humans in the beginning. He eventually feels guilty over it.

Mine avoided killing them out of caution rather than mercy. But later, he helped the dying soldier in the Korcari Wilds despite not being comfortable with humans yet.

After being saved by Duncan, he felt like he should do the same in a similar situation.

[straykat]

Why?

 

 

Obviously. But how does any of that prevent you from filling in the story's gaps in your own head if that's what you feel like doing? The game already forces you do it with the protagonist. What you're coming with there is pretty much an argument against the inherent structure of roleplaying games - relying on the player to imagine to their own satisfaction what the story doesn't make explicit.

 

Is this a thing, people being afraid to seem as if they're stepping on the writers' toes creatively? Even when the writers are telling you to walk wherever you like? I'm getting that culture clash feeling again.

 

Why? That was kind of their schtick. I wouldn't have been much of fan to begin with if I was injecting myself into the stories so heavily.

 

The reason why is the same reason I expect Coke to be Coke. And not 7-Up.

[ThomasBlaine]

Why? That was kind of their schtick. I wouldn't have been much of fan to begin with if I was injecting myself into the stories so heavily.

 

The reason why is the same reason I expect Coke to be Coke. And not 7-Up.

 

I don't get that at all. How can you not enjoy taking something you already like - and paid for - and imagining ways to make it your own? I'm in the opposite corner. I could write my own stories, but it's just as fun and much less trouble to piggyback an awesome setting with awesome characters and a pretty decent story and use it all to imagine even more awesomeness.

 

If it's a movie or a television show then it's fanfiction, yes, but when it's a roleplaying game and you're not messing with what happens in the game itself then it's just supplementing the existing story with stuff that actually happens in your playthrough, just offscreen.

[straykat]

I don't get that at all. How can you not enjoy taking something you already like - and paid for - and imagining ways to make it your own? I'm in the opposite corner. I could write my own stories, but it's just as fun and much less trouble to piggyback an awesome setting with awesome characters and a pretty decent story and use it all to imagine even more awesomeness.

 

If it's a movie or a television show then it's fanfiction, yes, but when it's a roleplaying game and you're not messing with what happens in the game itself then it's just supplementing the existing story with stuff that actually happens in your playthrough, just offscreen.

 

I approach it just like I would an actor approaching a script. The actor isn't the writer..they get input, but not complete independence. I get my lines, but the characterization and motivations are often up to me.

 

It's one thing to piggyback on the setting, but even then, you should start from scratch if you want to be more original. That's what writers do when given the job to write within a setting. You can't willingly ignore what's right in the game though and then pretend it doesn't exist. Or pretend it's an entirely different story. Here, you have some premises you have to work with. Ostagar, being a Warden, Flemeth, the origin stories, the choices in all the main quests, etc.. Surely we're on the same page about that?]

 

Secondly, accepting those parameters gives a commonality to all the players... so we can even talk about things. That's fun too. Who wants to listen to the person who starts talking about random things that no one ever experienced? If it entertains them fine, but they'd be no help to anyone else.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Ferelden

It is described the Ferelden legal system where it is said that criminals practice slavery in secrecy.

That explains Lanaya's backstory. But unless I'm mistaken your argument is that the nobles don't care about slavery? Criminals practicing it in secret doesn't indicate that and is in fact weak evidence that they do care, since the criminals could be a bit more open about it if the nobles didn't care.

[straykat]

Criminals still practice slavery now too. And while some people are indifferent, I'm not sure it helps to get on their ass about it.

 

Ferelden's real problem is the alienage system. And/or employment. At least with elves.

[Domakir]

You may be right on the second point and certainly are if you let Flemeth go. But if you killed her, the Warden really doesn't know what she is and is surprised when Morrigan mentions her at the end of Witch Hunt.

Which doesn't make any sense because when you kill her Morrigan tells you that she will be back.

[ThomasBlaine]

I approach it just like I would an actor approaching a script. The actor isn't the writer..they get input, but not complete independence. I get my lines, but the characterization and motivations are often up to me.

 

It's one thing to piggyback on the setting, but even then, you should start from scratch if you want to be more original. That's what writers do when given the job to write within a setting. You can't willingly ignore what's right in the game though and then pretend it doesn't exist. Or pretend it's an entirely different story. Here, you have some premises you have to work with. Ostagar, being a Warden, Flemeth, the origin stories, the choices in all the main quests, etc.. Surely we're on the same page about that?]

 

Secondly, accepting those parameters gives a commonality to all the players... so we can even talk about things. That's fun too. Who wants to listen to the person who starts talking about random things that no one ever experienced? If it entertains them fine, but they'd be no help to anyone else.

 

Yes, but the actor is doing his job in producing a finished work intended to satisfy both co-developers and paying customers. You're hopefully playing Dragon Age for your own amusement.

 

I like to think that my roleplaying and what I add to the game by headcanon are more original than most stories written from scratch, thank you very much. And even then I'm not trying to be original so much as trying to enrich the game experience for myself. It's certainly not a competition with the game's writers. I don't see where I said anything about ignoring what's in the game or pretending that it's a different story. My whole point was that if you're playing a roleplaying game and stay within all the boundaries of the actual narrative then you can pretty much add whatever you like and justifiably call it canon - for you, because every playthrough is already intended to be partially of your own devising in order to maximize your enjoyment.

 

It sounds a bit like you think that making up stories inherently involves putting tons of effort into it and then bitterly claiming your work as your own, jealously hating to acknowledge inspiration outside your own mind for fear of it not seeming truly original. Don't you ever imagine cool or funny things using people or characters you know just for fun? It's like that, except with roleplaying games you're being given a professionally constructed fictional world and characters that you're encouraged to mess around with as long as you don't smudge what's already written. Why be afraid of taking advantage?

 

What do you mean, "Who wants to listen to the person who starts talking about random things that no one ever experienced"?  That's the entire concept of fiction. Every novel you've ever read, game you've ever played and movie you've ever watched has essentially been someone telling you about random stuff that no one ever experienced.

 

Unless you're suggesting that people here are incapable of being entertained by other players' headcanon, as in scenarios constructed by someone else, as in storytelling like all other, then I don't see the harm in discussing it. There could be some confusion if we didn't differentiate between what we made up and what would be common to other players, yes, but as a rule we can and we do. The majority of us not being schizophrenic.

[Natureguy85]

Which doesn't make any sense because when you kill her Morrigan tells you that she will be back.

 

Does she mention it in camp at the time? I don't remember.

[Aren]

That explains Lanaya's backstory. But unless I'm mistaken your argument is that the nobles don't care about slavery? Criminals practicing it in secret doesn't indicate that and is in fact weak evidence that they do care, since the criminals could be a bit more open about it if the nobles didn't care.

"Fereldan law is relatively unregulated compared to that of older nations, and is expected on an individual level to be supplemented by one's martial prowess. Indeed, most petty crimes like theft are overlooked by the city guard in Denerim, whose main concern is protecting their posts. Consequently, the common Fereldan should not expect much help fending off criminal activity unless murder or major property damage has occurred. Slavery is illegal in Ferelden, but criminals still practice it in secret".

 

This quote show us that Ferelden doesn't even possess a system that regulate crimes like slavery.

[Aren]

Does she mention it in camp at the time? I don't remember.

She mentioned it several times(before and after the battle),that's why i have never understood why she want to complete her mother's plan if she knew that she would have come back from the grave.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

"Fereldan law is relatively unregulated compared to that of older nations, and is expected on an individual level to be supplemented by one's martial prowess. Indeed, most petty crimes like theft are overlooked by the city guard in Denerim, whose main concern is protecting their posts. Consequently, the common Fereldan should not expect much help fending off criminal activity unless murder or major property damage has occurred. Slavery is illegal in Ferelden, but criminals still practice it in secret".

 

This quote show us that Ferelden doesn't even possess a system that regulate crimes like slavery.

That's not necessarily the nobles approving of those crimes, is it? It seems to me that that's just the central authority not really having the power to enforce the rule of law in their territory.

 

Which explains a lot about the things you can get away with in Awakening; even if I think showing mercy to the guy who stole from the crown is a better option, and see an argument for imprisoning Ser Temmerly (all I'm going to say is that I see an argument) the fact that you can get away with those things is not a good sign for Ferelden's national stability, and really does seem to fit this narrative. (Unless you think Anora would approve of all the rule-bending you can get up to.)

[straykat]

Yes, but the actor is doing his job in producing a finished work intended to satisfy both co-developers and paying customers. You're hopefully playing Dragon Age for your own amusement.

 

I like to think that my roleplaying and what I add to the game by headcanon are more original than most stories written from scratch, thank you very much. And even then I'm not trying to be original so much as trying to enrich the game experience for myself. It's certainly not a competition with the game's writers. I don't see where I said anything about ignoring what's in the game or pretending that it's a different story. My whole point was that if you're playing a roleplaying game and stay within all the boundaries of the actual narrative then you can pretty much add whatever you like and justifiably call it canon - for you, because every playthrough is already intended to be partially of your own devising in order to maximize your enjoyment.

 

It sounds a bit like you think that making up stories inherently involves putting tons of effort into it and then bitterly claiming your work as your own, jealously hating to acknowledge inspiration outside your own mind for fear of it not seeming truly original. Don't you ever imagine cool or funny things using people or characters you know just for fun? It's like that, except with roleplaying games you're being given a professionally constructed fictional world and characters that you're encouraged to mess around with as long as you don't smudge what's already written. Why be afraid of taking advantage?

 

What do you mean, "Who wants to listen to the person who starts talking about random things that no one ever experienced"?  That's the entire concept of fiction. Every novel you've ever read, game you've ever played and movie you've ever watched has essentially been someone telling you about random stuff that no one ever experienced.

 

Unless you're suggesting that people here are incapable of being entertained by other players' headcanon, as in scenarios constructed by someone else, as in storytelling like all other, then I don't see the harm in discussing it. There could be some confusion if we didn't differentiate between what we made up and what would be common to other players, yes, but as a rule we can and we do. The majority of us not being schizophrenic.

 

You should know... I don't even know what your headcanon is. lol. So don't get too defensive. I'm just talking about general principles here. I haven't kept up with every post here.

 

If you're using things that are in the game, then it's no different than what I do. You can be plenty creative by just filling in blanks or giving backstories or whatever. Why would you think I'm against that? I'm just against pulling things out of my ass and projecting entirely different stories that contradict the game.

 

What is it that you have in mind anyways? Your story, I mean.

 

And no, you're not just as original as a novelist, starting from scratch. We're playing games. I'll say this to anyone. Including myself. It's like saying someone who filled out a coloring book is like a painter.

[Aren]

That's not necessarily the nobles approving of those crimes, is it? It seems to me that that's just the central authority not really having the power to enforce the rule of law in their territory.

 

Which explains a lot about the things you can get away with in Awakening; even if I think showing mercy to the guy who stole from the crown is a better option, and see an argument for imprisoning Ser Temmerly (all I'm going to say is that I see an argument) the fact that you can get away with those things is not a good sign for Ferelden's national stability, and really does seem to fit this narrative. (Unless you think Anora would approve of all the rule-bending you can get up to.)

That's the issue there are no controls in Ferelden,this allowed Loghain,the Baroness and probably others people too practice slavery.

[Seraphim24]

That's different. Vaughn fouling his own nest by mistreating a few of the elves directly under his power is one thing, Arl Howe setting up a trade agreement to sell Fereldan citizens and labor to a much-reviled foreign country en masse is another.

 

At that level it becomes a political issue, potentially disrupting Ferelden's foreign relations(something neither Loghain nor Howe clearly give a figg about) by breaking diplomatic treatises with and offending all the neighboring countries who really really really don't like Tevinter or their practices. Orlais would be far more justified calling an Exalted March on Ferelden for fueling their enemy superpower with blood slaves than it would at the dwarves becoming more open for trade, for example.

 

The existence of the Alienages themselves implies that the elves are recognized as having some part to play in Ferelden's economy, and if anti-slavery is a strong part of the national identity then that would cause outrage all by itself. And I'm not very well-read on Andrastian lore, but given Andraste's war on the Tevinters and presumably slavery too, Andraste being Fereldan and Ferelden being a very Andrastian country, it might even be a religious offense. Which would also make it even more provoking to Orlais, the ultimate seat of the Chantry right next door who are itching for an excuse to reclaim their eastern neighbor.

 

Assuming that Ferelden politicians as a rule are more aware of the political landscape than Loghain, they have very good reason to be pissed. Arl Eamon being the one to spearhead the attack on Loghain's authority especially makes sense, him living practically on top of the Orlesian border and being married to the daughter of the Orlesian governor who previously occupied his lands.

 

I don't know man, Alienages seem basically just like a shanty-town, it's not even really implied that there is any interaction whatsoever with mainstream Denerim, let alone Ferelden.

 

Honestly I think Dragon Age has a weird insight on the Elves in making them like "unique and powerful" and such but in a state of repression, but then it kind of bumbles the same insight by a seeming indifference to that very same repression.

 

I mean it doesn't erase everything else about DA or something, but trying to make it out as though Elves being sold off would be treated similarly to other Fereldens ignores pretty much everything about DA we're told via codices, etc, and their history with Elves compared to others.

 

Let alone Loghain's authority at that point, which I think was superior to everyone but maybe just partly secondary to a few of the Lords of the houses.

[Seraphim24]

And no, you're not just as original as a novelist, starting from scratch. We're playing games. I'll say this to anyone. Including myself. It's like saying someone who filled out a coloring book is like a painter.

 

So I'm not a Painter!!?? Straykat so mean!!

[straykat]

So I'm not a Painter!!?? Straykat so mean!!

 

I'd be willing to lie to a kid, I guess.

 

Just not myself.. or anyone like me.

[Seraphim24]

I'd be willing to lie to a kid, I guess.

 

Just not myself.. or anyone like me.

 

Hmph!   

[straykat]

I would equate someone who plays guitar hero well as talented though

 

I'm a guitar player myself... but I can't do that.