Honestly i can't see Loghain doing anything against the PC when recruited as a GW because he is too weak(he lost his title,he lost his men and is not an unstable mage) and lost all influence also what reason does he have to attack the warden?
Blind vengeance, maybe? He doesn't do it, and a Warden can credibly believe he wouldn't, but since Loghain is allowed to bear arms in the camp the Warden sleeps in one slip-up could be death for the Warden.
I really like the US for the Dwarf commoner and maybe Dwarf Noble. The Commoner has already done more than he ever aspired to as a Casteless. The Noble has lost his father and brother and was exiled. His other brother is either king or dead. He could see it as a way to restore his honor.
Having Alistair kill the ArchDemon works really well if he's king and you trust Anora to be a good queen. He says he can't think of any better way to serve his kingdom and seems ok with Anora taking over.
Commoner is like the only one I definitely have a hard time killing. For similar reasons as you... their life is so much worse than others. I just have a different conclusion.
I don't like killing female city elves either. Mostly because the CE can have the whole trickster thing going on. I want one of them to get away with it.
Commoner is like the only one I definitely have a hard time killing. For similar reasons as you... their life is so much worse than others. I just have a different conclusion.
Actually it sounds like a different perspective is leading to that different conclusion, looking at the language you used. You view it as you killing them. I wrote mine from the view of the character giving him/herself up. And if I look at it the way you do, yeah it seems worse somehow to do it to them because of what they've already dealt with.
Well...
I'm sort of crass sometimes. Sorry about that. I could be more solemn about it. You shouldn't read too much into the word "kill" though.
I think there's many ways to go with each origin. That's why I like them. It's just that some things resonate with me. For the dwarf, I see their story as growth and building a life. She also romanced Zevran.. they just seem like two people who run off and don't need to be in the story anymore.
Blind vengeance, maybe? He doesn't do it, and a Warden can credibly believe he wouldn't, but since Loghain is allowed to bear arms in the camp the Warden sleeps in one slip-up could be death for the Warden.
Is not inconceivable to think that the warden asked to someone of the allies to monitor the companions at camp or even that they were not allowed to be armed during the night, gameplay wise you can even disarm companions from the inventory menu.
Well...
I'm sort of crass sometimes. Sorry about that. I could be more solemn about it. You shouldn't read too much into the word "kill" though.
I think there's many ways to go with each origin. That's why I like them. It's just that some things resonate with me. For the dwarf, I see their story as growth and building a life. She also romanced Zevran.. they just seem like two people who run off and don't need to be in the story anymore.
There's nothing to apologize for. I just found it interesting. It was a difference of how "in" the game we were being.
Is not inconceivable to think that the warden asked to someone of the allies to monitor the companions at camp or even that they were not allowed to be armed during the night, gameplay wise you can even disarm companions from the inventory menu.
Is it inconceivable that Loghain could try to hide a knife somewhere on his body?
Is it inconceivable that Loghain could try to hide a knife somewhere on his body?
He can't hide anything if you remove from him even his clothes.
Then again i still don't see what reason could lead him to attack the warden which is the only reason as for why he is allowed to live.
He can't hide anything if you remove from him even his clothes.
Then again i still don't see what reason could lead him to attack the warden which is the only reason as for why he is allowed to live.
Well, if you make him strip naked every time you camp, that would be one reason.
And if he really wanted you dead, he'd try something else. Maybe his teeth or fingernails. Or he could try to slip something into your food, and unless someone was watching right then he might even succeed.
I think a lot of things are done in a sort of "shorthand". I wouldn't read too much into things. You could fill in different blanks with Loghain.
It's kind of like... the size of cities. I don't take it too literally. I think Orzammar or Kirkwall or the Brecelian Forest is probably bigger than the gameplay.
And if he really wanted you dead, he'd try something else. Maybe his teeth or fingernails. Or he could try to slip something into your food, and unless someone was watching right then he might even succeed.
Well, if you make him strip naked every time you camp, that would be one reason.
And if he really wanted you dead, he'd try something else. Maybe his teeth or fingernails. Or he could try to slip something into your food, and unless someone was watching right then he might even succeed.
Or he'd hire an assassin to kill... oh, nevermind.
I really like the US for the Dwarf commoner and maybe Dwarf Noble. The Commoner has already done more than he ever aspired to as a Casteless. The Noble has lost his father and brother and was exiled. His other brother is either king or dead. He could see it as a way to restore his honor.
There's also the fact that for any PC who genuinely harbored dreams and aspirations within the scope of his/her origin, their life is effectively over by the time Duncan conscripts them and everything after that is pure fallout. Elves, mages and dwarves lose everything and are thrust into a strange world they have no experience with and which turns out to be actively hostile to them, forcing them to fight for their lives every day and constantly deal with people who despise them. And so far as they know, their prospects aren't really any better after the Blight.
Most of the origins can reasonably end the game thinking that they have absolutely nothing to lose, and might even feel that trying to better things for their respective peoples by martyring themselves on the Archdemon would be the best they could hope for.
There's also the fact that for any PC who genuinely harbored dreams and aspirations within the scope of his/her origin, their life is effectively over by the time Duncan conscripts them and everything after that is pure fallout. Elves, mages and dwarves lose everything and are thrust into a strange world they have no experience with and which turns out to be actively hostile to them, forcing them to fight for their lives every day and constantly deal with people who despise them. And so far as they know, their prospects aren't really any better after the Blight.
Most of the origins can reasonably end the game thinking that they have absolutely nothing to lose, and might even feel that trying to better things for their respective peoples by martyring themselves on the Archdemon would be the best they could hope for.
I agree with this except for my Dwarf commoner. That's partly why I let her live. Her Warden life is an improvement. It'd be nice to see it grow.. as if this was sort of her "birth". Not her death.
They lost everything, and practically had nothing to begin with. As a warden, they had real friends and a wide view of the world.. and Leliana taught her about the Chantry. And Zevran fell for her. Her sister was the only good thing and she never lost her. And her sister always encouraged her to be positive anyways.
There's also the fact that for any PC who genuinely harbored dreams and aspirations within the scope of his/her origin, their life is effectively over by the time Duncan conscripts them and everything after that is pure fallout. Elves, mages and dwarves lose everything and are thrust into a strange world they have no experience with and which turns out to be actively hostile to them, forcing them to fight for their lives every day and constantly deal with people who despise them. And so far as they know, their prospects aren't really any better after the Blight.
Most of the origins can reasonably end the game thinking that they have absolutely nothing to lose, and might even feel that trying to better things for their respective peoples by martyring themselves on the Archdemon would be the best they could hope for.
That's really not true for Human Noble. The mage depends on how you went about it. The city elf depends on how much you R/P your warden liking their prior life and arranged marriage. It is arguably true for the Dalish since they are separated from their clan. The Dwarf Noble really has lost everything.
The Dwarf commoner, however, had nothing and didn't have any expectations of ever having anything or being somebody. I like the US for him because he's already achieved more than he ever could hope and wants to let someone else live their life to the fullest.
But
I agree with this except for my Dwarf commoner. That's partly why I let her live. Her Warden life is an improvement. It'd be nice to see it grow.. as if this was sort of her "birth". Not her death.
They lost everything, and practically had nothing to begin with. As a warden, they had real friends and a wide view of the world.. and Leliana taught her about the Chantry. And Zevran fell for her. Her sister was the only good thing and she never lost her. And her sister always encouraged her to be positive anyways.
This is also true and you could focus on that.
That's really not true for Human Noble.
It is if the human noble in question had no desire to be a warrior, loved their family, resented Duncan for blackmailing their father on his deathbed to get a recruit and was clinging to his relationship with Morrigan before taking her proposal of the Dark Ritual as her having been manipulating him all along.
Fighting disgusting, hideous monsters for the rest of your life under orders from a foreign power, never having a family of your own, never being allowed to carry a title and either dying slowly of darkspawn poisoning or unceremoniously on one of the things' blades is, to put it mildly, a very depressing future to look forward to if violence, adventure and glory aren't actually your thing. And let's not forget the potential psychological impact of a female Warden's encounter with a Broodmother, knowing that the Taint is already corrupting her body in that direction.
Obviously you can play every Warden as adjusting quickly to their new status, or even seeing it as a step up, and most do because it's easier and seems more exciting to roleplay, but realistically that's not how everyone would react. I daresay you wouldn't be overjoyed to be pressed into that kind of service yourself and subjected to half of the things the PC is. If it was me standing in that situation, and I wasn't seduced by Morrigan, then I think I'd probably look at the Ultimate Sacrifice as a relief and prepare myself to meet the Maker/the Creators/become one with the stone with gratitude.
The dwarf commoner may suggest taking over the Carta in Beraht's place. That doesn't sound like a "Oh, this is all I'll ever get" attitude to me.
They still can have dreams and ambition.
Yeah, but Jarvia steals their thunder... And by the time you get back, I think you have more on your plate.
Not that I'd mind playing a crimelord. How I WISH there was a game where I just did that.
It is if the human noble in question had no desire to be a warrior, loved their family, resented Duncan for blackmailing their father on his deathbed to get a recruit and was clinging to his relationship with Morrigan before taking her proposal of the Dark Ritual as her having been manipulating him all along.
Fighting disgusting, hideous monsters for the rest of your life under orders from a foreign power, never having a family of your own, never being allowed to carry a title and either dying slowly of darkspawn poisoning or unceremoniously on one of the things' blades is, to put it mildly, a very depressing future to look forward to if violence, adventure and glory aren't actually your thing. And let's not forget the potential psychological impact of a female Warden's encounter with a Broodmother, knowing that the Taint is already corrupting her body in that direction.
Obviously you can play every Warden as adjusting quickly to their new status, or even seeing it as a step up, and most do because it's easier and seems more exciting to roleplay, but realistically that's not how everyone would react. I daresay you wouldn't be overjoyed to be pressed into that kind of service yourself and subjected to half of the things the PC is. If it was me standing in that situation, and I wasn't seduced by Morrigan, then I think I'd probably look at the Ultimate Sacrifice as a relief and prepare myself to meet the Maker/the Creators/become one with the stone with gratitude.
Keep it coming, dude. 
Personally I'm out of ideas on why I should sacrifice a human noble. Although that was my first (completed) playthrough... A HN who did the US. I've come to think though that the whole "being last of your line" thing is a compelling reason to want to live. However pointless that may be as a Warden. You don't know if Fergus is alive, so it's an awfully depressing thought if the whole family is wiped out. I want them to be a Jon Snow or Arya or something.
It is if the human noble in question had no desire to be a warrior, loved their family, resented Duncan for blackmailing their father on his deathbed to get a recruit and was clinging to his relationship with Morrigan before taking her proposal of the Dark Ritual as her having been manipulating him all along.
Fighting disgusting, hideous monsters for the rest of your life under orders from a foreign power, never having a family of your own, never being allowed to carry a title and either dying slowly of darkspawn poisoning or unceremoniously on one of the things' blades is, to put it mildly, a very depressing future to look forward to if violence, adventure and glory aren't actually your thing. And let's not forget the potential psychological impact of a female Warden's encounter with a Broodmother, knowing that the Taint is already corrupting her body in that direction.
Obviously you can play every Warden as adjusting quickly to their new status, or even seeing it as a step up, and most do because it's easier and seems more exciting to roleplay, but realistically that's not how everyone would react. I daresay you wouldn't be overjoyed to be pressed into that kind of service yourself and subjected to half of the things the PC is. If it was me standing in that situation, and I wasn't seduced by Morrigan, then I think I'd probably look at the Ultimate Sacrifice as a relief and prepare myself to meet the Maker/the Creators/become one with the stone with gratitude.
You're right. I was thinking more about the end of the game, where there are more options, particularly for the Human Noble, not the moment of conscription, which is what you said. But then you brought it back to that moment of choice at the Arch Demon.
Retour en haut