Questa discussione ha avuto 1807 risposte

[Qun00]

In both cases - Flemeth/Mythal and Anders/Justice - we started out with whole, complete, adult people before the spirits melded with them. Multiple souls occupying the same body.

In Kieran's case, we have a mass of cells being given the soul of an old god. Is there actually a separate Kieran soul / identity in that body, or is it 100% old god in a human body? (It may be best to avoid too much debate about this topic, as it could delve into spiritual / religious / hot button issues, but I think it's valid to consider.)

OT: It depends on the Warden's reasons. I've RPed Wardens who chose to do the DR because they were hoping that an untainted old god might be able to help them avoid future blights, or possibly have other kinds of knowledge to offer.

If OGB Kieran only had the Old God soul, removing it would've killed him.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

In Kieran's case, we have a mass of cells being given the soul of an old god. Is there actually a separate Kieran soul / identity in that body, or is it 100% old god in a human body? (It may be best to avoid too much debate about this topic, as it could delve into spiritual / religious / hot button issues, but I think it's valid to consider.)

Flemeth removes the spirit of Urthemiel from Kieran near the end of DAI and Kieran is still able to talk. So clearly there is both a Kieran and an Urthemiel. Not that the Warden is given any reason to believe this will be the case, and in fact before the game came out I'd imagined that Kieran would simply be the soul of Urthemiel turned mostly human.

 

 

If OGB Kieran only had the Old God soul, removing it would've killed him.

Or done something weirder.

[Aren]

1) Why is the spirit that you save from the taint an abomination? Kieran isn't turned into a monster. On the contrary. He's a perfectly normal child who hosts a purified bit of soul inside him, which is then taken from him by Flemeth later on.

 

 

-It's an abomination because it match the technical definition of the meaning.

A magical being is  inside a body that do not belong to it and  is influencing and altering the behaviour of the host which make the OGB  an abomination.

When it is removed the child is even more screwed up than before.

 

 

 

2) The assumption that every Warden does the DR for selfish reasons is wrong. Some Wardens do it because consider Morrigan and Flemeth to know more about the old magic surrounding the taint, the Archdemon and the darkspawn better than the Wardens, with their stark philosophy and their hermetic magical rituals whose origins are now forgotten in the sands of time.

 

Other Wardens do it because they want to help preserve whatever spiritual creature is contained within those Old Gods. They are ancient and powerful magical creatures. That's what Dragon Age is about: magic  and wondrous things. Shouldn't something like that be rescued from the darkness and preserved?

 

And other Wardens do the DR because they do not wish to see Alistair die. If you don't sacrifice yourself,he does. And they don't want that. Either because they love Alistair or wish for him to become king in order to balance Anora's political ambitions.

 

The assumption that every Warden does the DR for selfish reasons is right until proven otherwise.

 

-Given that they never explained their rationale nor they ever told anything to the warden making an assumption about what they do know or what they don't know is just a guess.

 

-Tyrannical dragons worshipped by slavers and co-founder of an empire of slaves rumoured to be responsible for the blights and potential archdemons?

Great wonders indeed!Those wardens who agree to the DR under the premises of saving something " pure" don't even know what they are doing.

 

-If the warden is gambling the world for Alistair/Loghain that's indeed ipso facto selfishness incarnate.

 

 

 

 

So on what moral grounds will they judge and condemn the HoF for aiding an actual mage that DOES know WHAT an Old God is, WHAT kind of magic is involved in its creation and how to best tackle the problem of dealing with the Archdemon, with the bonus of avoiding the senseless waste of lives, something the Wardens have horribly failed at for centuries?

Based on what premises you are saying that Morrigan know what an old god is when it was proved the contrary?

 

The senior warden is the one which is tasked to kill the archdemon.

 

-Corin senior warden  die by killing  Zazikale he was going to die for the calling anyway.

-Loris senior warden die killing Toth he was going to die for the calling anyway.

-Gharael senior warden die killing Andhoral he was going to die for the calling anyway.

-Loghain he deserved that death anyway

 

Not being used by the witches of the wilds doesn't count as failure and being spared at the cost of gambling the world and empowering Mythal and the Dread Wolf isn't a success either.

 

 

[Pasquale1234]

If OGB Kieran only had the Old God soul, removing it would've killed him.

Flemeth removes the spirit of Urthemiel from Kieran near the end of DAI and Kieran is still able to talk. So clearly there is both a Kieran and an Urthemiel. Not that the Warden is given any reason to believe this is will be the case, and in fact before the game came out I'd imagined that Kieran would simply be the soul of Urthemiel turned mostly human.

I thought about that, but I'm not sure exactly what it was that Flemeth removed from Kieran. She might have taken only power, knowledge, magic, and/or ? (some aspect of godhood) and left the personality aspects of the soul intact.

Either way, the Warden would not have known Flemeth/Mythal or Anders/Justice, and thus could not use any knowledge of them in the decision making process.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I thought about that, but I'm not sure exactly what it was that Flemeth removed from Kieran. She might have taken only power, knowledge, magic, and/or ? (some aspect of godhood) and left the personality aspects of the soul intact.

Either way, the Warden would not have known Flemeth/Mythal or Anders/Justice, and thus could not use any knowledge of them in the decision making process.

I didn't get this in-game, but I think I remember reading that Kieran can say he's going to be "lonely" without whatever Flemeth took. If that's true, it narrows things down a little.

[Pasquale1234]

I didn't get this in-game, but I think I remember reading that Kieran can say he's going to be "lonely" without whatever Flemeth took. If that's true, it narrows things down a little.

I feel like I heard something to that effect, and at the time, I interpreted it to mean that he was going to miss Grandma Flemeth.

I guess we'll see eventually. Or not.

[Qun00]

He's gonna miss the voice in his head.

[Aren]

Not that the Warden is given any reason to believe this is will be the case

 

 

Generally speaking DAO with it's technical limitations doesn't offer to the PC the possibility to articulate a rational thinking in many opportunities because of the lack of voice.You are most of the time forced to hear but not being able to talk or to respond or to ask properly because you are limited to that dialogue wheel made of constrained statements.In Redclieffe you could have easly counteracted every  points Morrigan try to make for the DR and pointed out all the recklessness of it but of course the game forced you only to hear what she has to say and to stand there like a lemon and being insulted as soon as she leave.Things are worse with Riordan and Avernus as you are never provided with the option to talk to them about the archdemons despite the fact that you are aware that they are senior wardens.