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[BeefoTheBold]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Punk4Real wrote...

I actually played ME2 first and loved it so much I thought I'll go back and check out ME1.
Wow, the gameplay was just terrible. TERRIBLE. Especially the cooldown ammo mechanic and those horrible crosshairs. Its only saving grace was the story and awesome dialogue. But other than that, I hated it. It was a chore to play.

Welcome to the new breed of Bioware customer.

Gameplay before anything else. Story and dialog are awesome, but hates ME1 because of gameplay they didn't like.

That's Bioware's target audience and new mission statement summed up in two depressing sentences.

Yes because good gameplay is such a bad idea. /sarcasm

That is not what I said, but nice Strawman argument.

I said prioritizing good gameplay over great dialog and story to the point where someone hates a game that has the latter because the former (which is over five years old) is a little mediocre is an indictment of the sort of gamer Bioware is targeting.

In other words, wherein previously Bioware wanted to craft fantastic characters, great stories, and focused on immersion above all else, now they want to focus on gamers that crave uber polished graphics and combat and don't really care about story/characters.

Put simply: Good gamplay is something to aspire to, but in the past it was lower down the list of priorities for Bioware.

Which may be why Mass Effect 3 has great combat, cuts out 1/3rd of the dialog options, mails in the Tali face reveal, ignores a functioning Journal system and doesn't bother putting out any sort of ending that makes sense.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 27 mars 2012 - 11:52 .

[freestylez]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Punk4Real wrote...

I actually played ME2 first and loved it so much I thought I'll go back and check out ME1.
Wow, the gameplay was just terrible. TERRIBLE. Especially the cooldown ammo mechanic and those horrible crosshairs. Its only saving grace was the story and awesome dialogue. But other than that, I hated it. It was a chore to play.

Welcome to the new breed of Bioware customer.

Gameplay before anything else. Story and dialog are awesome, but hates ME1 because of gameplay they didn't like.

That's Bioware's target audience and new mission statement summed up in two depressing sentences.

Yes because good gameplay is such a bad idea. /sarcasm

That is not what I said, but nice Strawman argument.

I said prioritizing good gameplay over great dialog and story to the point where someone hates a game that has the latter because the former (which is over five years old) is a little mediocre is an indictment of the sort of gamer Bioware is targeting.

In other words, wherein previously Bioware wanted to craft fantastic characters, great stories, and focused on immersion above all else, now they want to focus on gamers that crave uber polished graphics and combat and don't really care about story/characters.

Put simply: Good gamplay is something to aspire to, but in the past it was lower down the list of priorities for Bioware.

Which may be why Mass Effect 3 has great combat, cuts out 1/3rd of the dialog options, mails in the Tali face reveal, ignores a functioning Journal system and doesn't bother putting out any sort of ending that makes sense.

Yup...hit the nail on the head...

But that's the thing. Mass Effect 3 had a decent combat system, but nowhere near as good as TRUE third person shooters nowadays. Which begs the question whether they should be really focusing their efforts in combat as opposed to the things that made ME great in the first place.

[AutomaticDuck]

ME1 had its faults:

-The absolutely horrible inventory system, which should serve as a textbook example of how NOT to design a system like this.
-The repetitive sidequests with the mako,,, and yeah the mako controls heh.
-The cooldown used to freeze for me all the time which had me reload saves.

These three points hardly make a dent in my appreciation of the game though. As much as I love ME2 and 3 (hate ME3's ending though as much as anyone else), the first one will always be the introduction to this great franchise and is one of the best games ever made. Period.

[catabuca]

I adored ME1 precisely because of the storytelling and narrative. It swept me off my feet. It got me back into gaming after a rather long hiatus. ME2 came out and I ended up heartbroken. Sure, the combat was arguably better in many regards, but I hated the lack of customisation, and I hated the chopped-up feeling of the story, the way it was fragmented in favour of mission end screens, magically teleporting to mission areas and back out again, the way a huge chunk of the game was focused around either killing mercs or gaining the loyalty of my crew. There was no real tie into the supposed main plot other than scant few main missions that cropped up at pre-determined times.

Sad panda.

I kept my expectations very, very low in the lead up to ME3. I was certain that even though it was getting weapon modding and a nice blue UI that harked back to ME1, it was going to be more of the same.

I was wrong.

Yeah, I miss the ability to talk to my team more when I'm on the Normandy, but hell I love that the banter on missions has gotten better, and the auto-dialogue that the crew say when they have nothing of note to say to you is greatly improved. The combat is better than 2, but I don't care about that as much as I do that I can mod my weapons now, although I'd have liked it if they'd have gone even further (I was expecting an Alpha Protocol system, whereby each element of a gun was moddable all at once, but ho-hum). But what blew me away was the storytelling. The cinematics, the dialogue, the emotions it all evoked ... there was no way on earth I'd have expected that they would have pulled that off. There are plenty of things I'm not a fan of (tying MP to SP, for example; the war assets system, which I believe is only there because of MP; the lack of more player-driven planetary exploration; etc.) but in terms of storytelling -- wow. ME3 blows ME2 out of the water.

ME1 will always hold a special place in my heart because of the story, and I remember fondly all those special little moments: the first time you pull into the Citadel and everyone rushes to the window and you hear that music (which they brought back in 3); when you become a spectre and everyone looks down at you in the council chamber, and again, that music; the last part of the game (if you do it in this order), going from Virmire on to Ilos and then the Citadel, where the tension is palpable; and then the end, as you emerge from the rubble, and again, the music. There are so many moments like that in ME1, and I love them all. There are plenty of moments in 3 as well, that really grabbed me, so I couldn't move my eyes from the screen. ME2 not so much.

I can understand how people coming to the series with ME2 might not like ME1. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make them a bad kind of gamer. We each like different things. It is a shame they didn't discover it with 1 though, because it might have made it all a more cohesive experience for them. But I certainly don't begrudge them their opinion of not liking 1. It's got plenty of flaws, and even I, as someone who adores it, am willing to accept that.

Modifié par catabuca, 28 mars 2012 - 12:21 .

[Mr_Steph]

 You might be. The gameplay and inventory was bad, but I liked the rest.

[Brownfinger]

Getting through the gameplay is still a chore for me, but the story makes that all worth it.

[chris fenton]

Hate it? Nah, I didn't hate it. I think ME2 is my favorite Mass Effect though.
It has some flaws, but it has the most RPG left in it, and still has some good combat.
RPG was great in ME1, so that was a saving grace, but that combat..

[jtrook]

While I do remember the weird cooldown system. I still found it more RPG like then ME2 or 3 but my favorite and I am the minority was ME2.

[MrRiadon]

The gameplay isn't good but is tolerable.  However, the story and dialog are the best in the series (IMO).  ME2/3 have it beat in gameplay and ME2 has it beat in character developement.

[thetawaves90]

Aside from the crazy fps and the evident lack of time/budget in some areas (repeated enviroments, wall-of-text describing what was blatantly intended as a cinematics), I can't fault it. Congratulations on having your own opinion though, OP.

Edit: I am so so glad they desisted with that damn inventory system. I loved the weapon modding (and had a big grin when I noticed it's reincarnation in ME3) but having 50+ items to individual sell after every mission? Not something I miss at all, but at least it didn't have Elder Scrolls encumberance!

Modifié par thetawaves90, 28 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[catabuca]

Even though I had a full compliment of omni-gel way before the end of the game, I still did every hacking mini-game without using omni-gel. Glutton for punishment XD

[0rthod0x]

freestylez wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

That is not what I said, but nice Strawman argument.

I said prioritizing good gameplay over great dialog and story to the point where someone hates a game that has the latter because the former (which is over five years old) is a little mediocre is an indictment of the sort of gamer Bioware is targeting.

In other words, wherein previously Bioware wanted to craft fantastic characters, great stories, and focused on immersion above all else, now they want to focus on gamers that crave uber polished graphics and combat and don't really care about story/characters.

Put simply: Good gamplay is something to aspire to, but in the past it was lower down the list of priorities for Bioware.

Which may be why Mass Effect 3 has great combat, cuts out 1/3rd of the dialog options, mails in the Tali face reveal, ignores a functioning Journal system and doesn't bother putting out any sort of ending that makes sense.

Yup...hit the nail on the head...

But that's the thing. Mass Effect 3 had a decent combat system, but nowhere near as good as TRUE third person shooters nowadays. Which begs the question whether they should be really focusing their efforts in combat as opposed to the things that made ME great in the first place.

I think people overlook the fact that gameplay is everything we do outside of pre-rendered scenes. The shooter element of ME1-3 doesn't live up to the depth and flexibility of most good shooters. But like you both said, that wasn't the point of the game. So it's only logical to dislike ME1 if you prefer the fast-paced shooter style. The RPG style pacing of ME1 is much slower and invites more (often pointless but still immersive) wandering around than it's much more straight-froward descendants.

Personally I liked having to drive to mission points, finding a nice spot to snipe from, positioning my squadmates in a nice kill triangle, and decimating opposition.

That's not to say ME2 wasn't a good game, it was just different. A friend of mine said after playing it: "It just doesn't feel like Mass Effect."

[ManualReplica]

Its strange how people can defend ME1's atrocious combat system and general quirks and minor problems that made the game annoying at times (elevators, elevators, jumping enemies, lack of working sprint function to cover large distances, moon landscapes, etc etc etc).

Still some of the best dialogue and choice making of the time though.
Back in a time where you could tell random sidequest NPC to ef off if you didn't want to fetch their stupid artifacts halfway across the galaxy.

[ElementL09]

Framerate and Gameplay aside, it was a great game. I play it still for its story.

[daecath]

I loved ME1, except for the Mako. I've heard it described like trying to drive a refrigerator on a roller skate. I'd say that's pretty accurate. Seriously, we can travel across the entire galaxy in the blink of an eye, but we can't get a decent exploration vehicle? Other than that, I loved it. More interaction with your squad, great story, and I liked the combat. I don't like shooters, and trying to keep my ammo up was one of the most annoying things about ME2.

[Achkas]

I disliked ME1 immensely until the final couple of worlds; combat was a chore, travel wasn't fun, and the missions were all oddly anti-capitalist to an excessive degree, beating the same boring note. ME2 and ME3 were great.

[AgitoPlus182]

Personally, my favorite is 2. ME1 had a fine story and felt a lot more sci-fi-y, but everything about ME2 just clicked for me. ME3 is still on the table, but 1 is probably going to be my least favorite.

[T1l]

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Yes.

[MasterShepardN7]

You've got to remember that even by the time ME2 came out in 2010 that game was a few years old and technology got even better/advanced even further especially with the Unreal Engine. I for one love all three ME games and have a place in my heart for the first one. More nostalgia by now, but it's still a really good/fun game even nowadays.

[gabe2gg]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Transgirlgamer wrote...
What I don't like about ME 1 is that shaky scope for the sniper rifle

That's how sniper rifles work really..You know..shaky hands..breathing. You cab't hold a rifle perfectly still.

this, there was nothing wrong with the sniper rifle in ME1

[AlanC9]

Except for Shep getting so much better with it over the course of ME1, that is.

[tonnactus]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

I actually had no problems with ME1, framerate aside. Best ME to this day.

Agreed. Better then Mass Effect 2 (aka Pokemon in Space) anyway.

[DaJe]

ManualReplica wrote...

Its strange how people can defend ME1's atrocious combat system and general quirks and minor problems that made the game annoying at times (elevators, elevators, jumping enemies, lack of working sprint function to cover large distances, moon landscapes, etc etc etc).

Still some of the best dialogue and choice making of the time though.
Back in a time where you could tell random sidequest NPC to ef off if you didn't want to fetch their stupid artifacts halfway across the galaxy.

I don't see anyone defend ME1s flaws. I see lots of people mentioning the flaws but admitting that the complete experience was still overshadowing them.

[xSTONEYx187x]

T1l wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Yes.

[The Last Guardian]

ME1 is horrible. How people can legitimely say, "this is the best game I've played" is either wearing nostalgia glasses, or haven't played that many games.

There's pro's to ME1. Don't get me wrong.

The story is fantastic, and it's characters are one of a kind. That's what saves the game from being garbadge on a disk for me.

Because other wise, the game has SO MANY flaws

Where to start?

-The Citadel: It's huge. Huge simply for the sake of being huge. It's lifeless. Drab and dead. Why can't npc's roam around like in Assassins Creed doing there own little tasks. Make it feel like it's a REAL CITY!?

-The gameplay is garbage. The covering system sucks. The cool down system sucks. The weapons feel so light and unrealistic. Just from A to Z, the combat sucks.

-The terrible NPC human character design, the lack of facial reactions.

-The Mako. Controls like a piece of poop on a stick

-The side missions. Same ****, with different skin templates. EXCITING!!!!

-The mission design: Go here, talk to X person, go back there, talk to X person, go back there. Fight waves of enemy, go there and talk to X person. Noveria is the biggest criminal of this. Terrible, boring level design. When your crating sci-fi why not go all out with it? Instead you create a dull, grey building? Really?

-AUTO SAVE SUX. Noverria. Lost all my progress because I didn't manually save. Why it didn't auto save? God only knows why.

-Why is the normandy so small, and why are all the characters bunched up together

-Elevators? WHHHHYYYYY??!?!?

I can go on, and on, and on...

It's saving grace is the music, the characters, the story, and the incredible lore that bioware created. Everything else is just so horrible or medicore.

Where all this ME1 praise comes from, I don't know how or where.

Seriously play ME1 again or play actual GOOD games that have good combat, and good mission design, and good level design.