19 réponses à ce sujet

[FinaLfront]

Um, this seems to not be working the way it's described for me.

From what I understand, hostiles on the world map normally run away from you if they are 4 or more levels below you. So, a level 6 and below will run from you if you are level 10.

With the first Fearsome Roster feat, enemies are 'supposed' to flee from you if they are 3 or more levels below you. The last feat, Improved Fearsome roster states that enemies flee if they are 2 or more levels below you. So, level 8 enemies are supposed to run from a level 10 player with this feat.

So, I have Fearsome Roster, and Improved Fearsome Roster, and enemies still attack if they are 2-3 levels below me.

I can't find anywhere that states this as a known issue. What gives? 

[Dann-J]

Overland encounters use the average level for the whole party (including cohorts). Do you have any party members of lower level that might be dragging the average down?

[FinaLfront]

Nah, only use 4 part members (the 4 you make) and they all have exactly the same amount of XP.

I was a little off on my first analysis though. It appears monsters flee at 5 EL. So this is telling me that the fist Fearsome Roster rank is indeed working, because enemies flee from me at 4 level difference, but Improved Fearsome Roster does seem to be broke still, because enemies at 3 level difference still engage me.

[kamal_]

Hmm, that would seem to be fairly straightforward to confirm. If someone else can recreate it, I'll try to make some time to look at the script for the feat.

[kamal_]

Ok, I looked at this.

First thing, it's possible for an encounter to never be scared no matter the level difference. The code didn't say what they'd used that with, but you can tag an encounter as never being scared. Encounters they really want you to have, or mindless undead that can't get scared maybe.

Fearsome and Improved Fearsome Roster do make a difference in the flee determination, and the difference between them and no feat is indeed correct. ie: Fearsome gives you a 1 CR advantage, Improved gives you a 2 CR advantage.

I changed the fear calculation slightly, giving each level including no feat, an extra +1. This should give the party a 1CR advantage over stock, making enemies more likely to flee. Place this in your override folder to test.
dl.dropbox.com/u/3879894/ginc_overland_ai.NSS

[FinaLfront]

Outstanding, thanks for taking the time to look into this.

Indeed there are enounters that don't flee, such as the bandits when you have the quests to talk to their leader active. So far that's all I've seen immune to fearsome roster, even undead flee.

And in the description of the feat, it specificaly says in parentheses at the end "(Enemies will run from you if they are 3 or more levels below you) This very specific claim isn't happening though.

I'll definitely give your override a test run. If I understand correctly, this fix would make enemies flee at a 4 difference instead of 5(without any feats), correct? So, for me, it would be fixing encounters to how they "should" be, but someone without the feats would be cheating?

I'll be back with some results

Modifié par Necrophili...i mean mancer, 27 mars 2012 - 03:29 .

[FinaLfront]

Ok, so I ran around with this in my override folder and unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working.. Lvl 12 enemies still attack while I'm lvl 15

Modifié par Necrophili...i mean mancer, 27 mars 2012 - 03:29 .

[kevL]

guys,
'ginc_overland_ai' is an #include file. Changes there won't take effect until the script(s) that call those changed functions are recompiled. I took a look at kamal_'s changes and they look good; but the heartbeat files that call RunStateManager( ) have to be recompiled, it looks like: 'gb_hostile_enc_hb' and 'gb_special_enc_hb'

then it should work,


Kam_
i went with 6/4/2 instead of 4/3/2 ...... was originally 5/4/3 ( meaning, no Fearsome Feat CR diff / FearsomeRoster CR diff / ImpFearsomeRoster CR diff )

it looks like Challenge Rating (CR) is the average party level vs. the CR of the spawned monster on the OM. now, for some .Tlk edits ..

[kevL]

necro, it seems to me that either the description is wrong or the original scripts are wrong. Fearsome Roster should read "Hostiles on the Overland Map will run from the party if their CR is 5 levels or more below the party level (without this benefit, enemies will run away if they are 6 levels or more below the party)" and Improved Fearsome Roster, "Hostiles on the Overland Map will run from the party if their CR is 4 levels or more below the party level (without this benefit, enemies will run away if they are 5 levels or more below the party)".

is this more in line with what you're seeing?

--
rationale: the numbers above are the bonus to monster CR, that gets compared w/ partyLevel. The monster CR + bonus has to only *equal* partyLevel for attack so add 1 to get monsters scared,

Modifié par kevL, 27 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[FinaLfront]

Your first paragraph explains exactly what I see ingame.

This is what the description reads ingame.

[kevL]

question: When you get Improved Fearsome Roster, does it remove Fearsome Roster ? [ edit, i guess not .. ]

( because if it doesn't, things really get borked ) [ edit2, i take that back, this part's fine ]

--
jeez, Daerred's conversation reads:
[ Enemies on the Overland Map will flee the party if the party's CR is 4 or more levels greater. Normally, they flee if the party's CR is 5 or more levels greater ]

(should be 5/6)

[ Enemies on the Overland Map will flee the party if the party's CR is 3 or more levels greater. Normally, they flee if the party's CR is 4 or more levels greater ]

(should be 4/5)

Modifié par kevL, 27 mars 2012 - 06:51 .

[FinaLfront]

Most of this is confusing to me, but if I understand correctly, you are saying that either the ingame description is wrong, or the script is wrong? If the two are stating completely different things, which is correct?

So, apparently these feats are doing something, just not what you read ingame. With out these feats, monsters would still attack at 5 level difference? Only at 6 would they flee...?

[kevL]

sry bout the confusion, it *is* confusing

Because it depends on your perspective which is "wrong". To make matters more confusing, there are three possibilities published by Obs Ent. 1. the scripts, 2. Daerred's conversation, 3. the ingame descriptions

so from my perspective it comes down to a matter of choice (ironically). if we take the scripts as the 'truth' here, simply leave them as is and recall what i wrote above

Fearsome Roster should read "Hostiles on the Overland Map will run from the party if their CR is 5 levels or more below the party level (without this benefit, enemies will run away if they are 6 levels or more below the party)" and Improved Fearsome Roster, "Hostiles on the Overland Map will run from the party if their CR is 4 levels or more below the party level (without this benefit, enemies will run away if they are 5 levels or more below the party)".

- the simplest way to fix it is to back up and edit your Dialog.Tlk w/ TlkEdit2 off the NwVault (it has a filter function that should get to the exact entries pretty quick) warning: once you start correcting entries in Dialog.Tlk you'll find yourself heading down a nearly endless road ....

it is possible via the Toolset to find Daerred's conversation entries also, and correct them ..

- the other option is to change the #include file and recompile the scripts mentioned, like above posts from kamal_ & myself suggest. I don't want to link mine because they may or may not have personal funks & quirks (that are also untested ). Also, in this confusion I don't know what *you* would want

[kamal_]

KevL was correct, the parent scripts 'gb_hostile_enc_hb' and 'gb_special_enc_hb need a recompile. So I've done so, here are all of them, drop into override and it should make things work according to the ingame description.

dl.dropbox.com/u/3879894/fearsome_roster.7z

[FinaLfront]

I see, well, since kamal_ has taken the time to edit these files, I'll just go with that

Good news! These overrides work! However, it does need 1 more tweak to match the actual ingame description:

Currently with these overrides, Improved Fearsome Roster will make enemies flee at 3 or more levels below party level (was 4 without overrides)...The ingame description calls for 2 or more levels below party average.

I wish we knew the true magnitude that these feats were intended to be at.

[kamal_]

ok, since you say it's still off by 1, I adjusted the script by a further 1 (so 2 from the default). Based on what you said Necro..., this will make it match exactly the ingame text.
dl.dropbox.com/u/3879894/fearsome_roster2.7z

As for intent, I'd be inclined to go with what appears ingame since the descriptions of the two feats are aligned with each other, and each feat reference lists the with feat and without feat CR. So there's a total of 4 player visible references to the CR between the descriptions, and the two feat's descriptions agree with each other. The script has just a single reference (since the effect is handled in one single place).

But anyway, ultimately it depends on what you prefer.

Modifié par kamal_, 28 mars 2012 - 12:57 .

[kevL]

cool, always glad to see someone's game working better

[kamal_]

So it's fixed for Necro. Can someone else confirm the issue (ie not confined to Necro for some reason)? If this is a general bug we can update the wiki to mark it as bugged, and add the script to any list of bugfixes out there.

[FinaLfront]

Aye, thank you both! Much appreciated

If you haven't already, you should upload these overrides to the vault, or NWN Nexus (or both)

Thanks again!

**
True, we should wait to see if this issue is exclusive to me first. Incase it's important, my version of the game is 1.023 and it's the platinum edition downloaded from Steam

Modifié par Necrophili...i mean mancer, 28 mars 2012 - 01:45 .

[kamal_]

I've uploaded the fixed scripts to Nexus and Vault.