391 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Andronic0s wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote... 

That's because there was no "happy" ending in DA:O.  There was the sacrifice of yourself, Alistair, or Loghain; or the possible unleashing of dragon god menace on the world.  That's the sort of ending I'd support including, one with sufficient downside to not devalue the sacrifice of the other endings.

But the godchild ending in DA is the happy one, the only uncertain thing is what is going to happen with the godchild?, it might be a force of good or evil or maybe nothing at all, in ME it is implied if you destroy the reapers bad things will happen eventually but you do not know if it is true or not, so you could have an ending with the galaxy saved, everyone alive, etc but still wonder if you made a mistake if you sacrificed the future in order to save the present 

It is still a not a total happy endig because you have unleashed something with unknown consequences and ensured that the Archdemon was not entirely destroyed.  It is a happy ending for the Warden, but not for Thedas as a whole in comparison to the other possibilities.  That's why it worked with the other endings, there was always a price.

Which is exactly why a possible Reapers destroyed ending would not be a happy ending, there is still the big unknown of what is going to happen with the "solution" removed, it would be a happy ending for shepard but perhaps not for the galaxy in the long run

Exactly.  Now, I wouldn't be opposed to an ending with Shepard reunitiing with the LI or whatnot, but there would have to be equivalent consequence.

[Druzgot]

It supposed to be your chose what ending do you will get. No matter if it is bad/neutral/happy ending, why do you want to take opportunity of good ending for this people which actualy want this ending?

[cbutz]

This "no happy ending" thought, or the idea that a happy ending = Disney, really needs to die in a fire.
1. There should be a "happy" ending if someone works hard enough at it.
2. Here is the "happiest" ending possible:
-Legion is dead
-Kaiden/Ashley is dead
- Anderson is dead, depending on whether that changes with any change in the ending
- Thane is dead
- Mordin is dead
- Billions are dead
-Main garden worlds and home planets are devastated

Therefore the idea that Shepard can survive the ordeal, with his remaining squad mates, defeat the reapers, reunite with his love interest and possibly help rebuild the galaxy, and perhaps spend the rest of his days doing what he wants, from settling down to running around guns blazing and dispensing some much needed justice, is not a "Disney" ending. Perhaps it is the ending a guy who has had crap thrown at him for 3 years deserve.

Oh , and this ending can and should eb optional so that those who desire it should work to get it.
There should also be a middle and more bittersweet ending, as well as the dark, depressing ending.

Modifié par cbutz, 25 mars 2012 - 08:20 .

[Embrosil]

Hmm, it is some new fashion? Like look I am megacool as I do not want to have a happy end? Sorry OP, but I WANT a happy end. I do not play games to get depressed. If I have the need of feeling depressed, I turn on the news.

Modifié par Embrosil, 25 mars 2012 - 08:21 .

[Heimdall]

cbutz wrote...

This "no happy ending" thought, or the idea that a happy ending = Disney, really needs to die in a fire.
1. There should be a "happy" ending if someone works hard enough at it.
2. Here is the "happiest" ending possible:
-Legion is dead
-Kaiden/Ashley is dead
- Anderson is dead, depending on whether that changes with any change in the ending
- Thane is dead
- Mordin is dead
- Billions are dead
-Main garden worlds and home planets are devastated

Therefore the idea that Shepard can survive the ordeal, with his remaining squad mates, defeat the reapers, reunite with his love interest and possibly help rebuild the galaxy, and perhaps spend the rest of his days doing what he wants, from settling down to running around guns blazing and dispensing some much needed justice, is not a "Disney" ending. Perhaps it is the ending a guy who has had crap thrown at him for 3 years deserve.

Oh , and this ending can and should eb optional so that those who desire it should work to get it.
There should also be a middle and more bittersweet ending, as well as the dark, depressing ending.

There need to be further consequences so the sacrifice endings are not rendered meaningless.  Check my arguments on the previous page to see what I mean.

[Raseri]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Eliantariel wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Eliantariel wrote...
No I don't see the problem here - there is no "best" end. It may seem so because with EMS we can measure how hard it is to see an ehttp://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/new_post/10560199/10610839nding but that does not mean that the hardest to achieve ending is the "best" ending or that players will always go for that. I have seen many comments from people who actually liked the control ending. It depends on the Shepard that you are playing what fits best. So to have you happy they can implement a happy end that you can get with low EMS, than you don't feel like you did not bother to get enough EMS.

In ME2 the happy ending was easy to achieve but many players liked to make decisions to get some squadmates killed because they liked the ending better. So even with an option of a happy end does not mean you have to select it. This is a role-playing game! Select the ending you like and/or that fits to your Shepard and not the one that has less dead people.

And to have this as a reason to deny other people a happy ending - you must be as much as egoistic as I am with my hope for a happy ending.

Please, if you don't think a "happy" ending involves everything being fine, the crew surviving and reuniting with Shepard and a better overall situation, you'll have to clarify.

You're missing the point entirely.  I want an ending where, despite getting every possible advantage, the best way to ensure a future for the galaxy involves one more sacrifice, which I find the most fitting end to Shepard's story.  A final ultimate dedication to the end of the Reaper cycle  Your desired ending denies me that.  It says that my Shepard has to deliberately make bad decisions, rush things or be an incompetant decision maker in order to get to the point where sacrificing himself gets the best result.  Any "happy" ending where Shepard lives and reunites with the crew would have to come with adequate consequences so that it is not a definitively better ending.

The first thing you need to do before we continue this is to tell me what you mean by Happy Ending.

Ok I think I understand now better what you mean. If it is possible to have everyone survive like in ME2 not having everyone alive must mean that something went wrong and that would not fit to the "perfect" decision that you can achieve.

But I think there are alternatives to that. Like depending on if you select control, synthesis or destroy. It has different outcomes on the galaxy but that does not mean that one end is better than the others. For my canon Shepard for example, control and synthesis is a no go, for others and for other players control or synthesis is the best. So if you would choose synthesis or control it would mean that you sacrifice yourself (I mean of course Shepard) for the greater good. With destroy you also destroy the Geth and EDI and that is a no go for many players. To have at least a reunion between LI and Shepard would make the destroy end not so bad compared to the other too but would not mean that it is the best end.

On the other side I think this is what role-playing means - you play how you think it fits best. Maybe it would be better not to have the EMS rating for the end so that people don't get the impression something must have went wrong if they have a different outcome. This only leads to discussion which end is best and this should be something the player decides for their Shepard. Like in Dragon Age Origins - you can sacrifice your warden but you don't have to. Doesn't mean that the survive ending is better or more valuable than the sacrifice end.

For me a happy ending would mean Shepard survived (badly injured but alive) and at least the LI is alive too and they are not separated on different systems but within sol system or anything like that so that a reunion is possible. Doesn't mean that the whole crew must be alive or Normandy still intact or mass relays saved. A Normandy crash on earth would be ok. Shepard survival and LI alive is already possible in ME3 with high enough EMS and destroy end (if you interpret the Shepard breath end as Shepard being alive).

So to make a point: I think I understand what you mean but still I hope for a more happy end option, even if we don't get it what seems likely. At least an option and that does not mean I would select it every time. My Shepard that romanced Thane or stayed single would gladly sacrifice herself, others hoping for a reunion with the LI. I believe it is possible to have both players hoping for bad ends and for happy (does not mean better) ends, well, happy.

That's what I want.  I'm not opposed to an ending where Shepard reunites with the LI.  I just want to make sure such an ending has consequences like the current endings so that none is better than the other, just different..  I don't mind you getting an ending you like, but in order for me to get the ending I want there must be a proportionate consequence.

So...billions dead isn't consequence enough?

[Heimdall]

Raseri wrote...
So...billions dead isn't consequence enough?

Since it happens in every ending regardless of Shepard's sacrifice, no, it isn't.  The sacrifice has to be balanced between the endings save for perhaps a handful of true failure endings.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 25 mars 2012 - 08:30 .

[Andronic0s]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote... 

That's because there was no "happy" ending in DA:O.  There was the sacrifice of yourself, Alistair, or Loghain; or the possible unleashing of dragon god menace on the world.  That's the sort of ending I'd support including, one with sufficient downside to not devalue the sacrifice of the other endings.

But the godchild ending in DA is the happy one, the only uncertain thing is what is going to happen with the godchild?, it might be a force of good or evil or maybe nothing at all, in ME it is implied if you destroy the reapers bad things will happen eventually but you do not know if it is true or not, so you could have an ending with the galaxy saved, everyone alive, etc but still wonder if you made a mistake if you sacrificed the future in order to save the present 

It is still a not a total happy endig because you have unleashed something with unknown consequences and ensured that the Archdemon was not entirely destroyed.  It is a happy ending for the Warden, but not for Thedas as a whole in comparison to the other possibilities.  That's why it worked with the other endings, there was always a price.

Which is exactly why a possible Reapers destroyed ending would not be a happy ending, there is still the big unknown of what is going to happen with the "solution" removed, it would be a happy ending for shepard but perhaps not for the galaxy in the long run

Exactly.  Now, I wouldn't be opposed to an ending with Shepard reunitiing with the LI or whatnot, but there would have to be equivalent consequence.

Then since we established that "happy" endings would not really be a complete happy ending, you agree that it is allright for Bioware to add the so called "happy" endings to the game that other people want?

[Heimdall]

Andronic0s wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Andronic0s wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote... 

That's because there was no "happy" ending in DA:O.  There was the sacrifice of yourself, Alistair, or Loghain; or the possible unleashing of dragon god menace on the world.  That's the sort of ending I'd support including, one with sufficient downside to not devalue the sacrifice of the other endings.

But the godchild ending in DA is the happy one, the only uncertain thing is what is going to happen with the godchild?, it might be a force of good or evil or maybe nothing at all, in ME it is implied if you destroy the reapers bad things will happen eventually but you do not know if it is true or not, so you could have an ending with the galaxy saved, everyone alive, etc but still wonder if you made a mistake if you sacrificed the future in order to save the present 

It is still a not a total happy endig because you have unleashed something with unknown consequences and ensured that the Archdemon was not entirely destroyed.  It is a happy ending for the Warden, but not for Thedas as a whole in comparison to the other possibilities.  That's why it worked with the other endings, there was always a price.

Which is exactly why a possible Reapers destroyed ending would not be a happy ending, there is still the big unknown of what is going to happen with the "solution" removed, it would be a happy ending for shepard but perhaps not for the galaxy in the long run

Exactly.  Now, I wouldn't be opposed to an ending with Shepard reunitiing with the LI or whatnot, but there would have to be equivalent consequence.

Then since we established that "happy" endings would not really be a complete happy ending, you agree that it is allright for Bioware to add the so called "happy" endings to the game that other people want?

As long as the consequences are balanced, yes I would agree.  I'm all for more options as long as those options are balanced.

[Raseri]

cbutz wrote...

This "no happy ending" thought, or the idea that a happy ending = Disney, really needs to die in a fire.
1. There should be a "happy" ending if someone works hard enough at it.
2. Here is the "happiest" ending possible:
-Legion is dead
-Kaiden/Ashley is dead
- Anderson is dead, depending on whether that changes with any change in the ending
- Thane is dead
- Mordin is dead
- Billions are dead
-Main garden worlds and home planets are devastated

Therefore the idea that Shepard can survive the ordeal, with his remaining squad mates, defeat the reapers, reunite with his love interest and possibly help rebuild the galaxy, and perhaps spend the rest of his days doing what he wants, from settling down to running around guns blazing and dispensing some much needed justice, is not a "Disney" ending. Perhaps it is the ending a guy who has had crap thrown at him for 3 years deserve.

Oh , and this ending can and should eb optional so that those who desire it should work to get it.
There should also be a middle and more bittersweet ending, as well as the dark, depressing ending.

Exactly this.  Sums it up well. 

Why should I even bother to try to get this great alliance and do every single quest and scan countless systems for resources and war effort bonuses if in the end it won't ******* matter one bit?  Everybody dies, galaxy destroyed, monkeys and dogs and yahg are all that's left. 

I don't play games for this, I don't even watch movies like this.  I want to be entertained and thrilled by heroism, not depressed in my fantasy worlds.  Real life is depressing enough, thanks.  There's more than enough tragedy for all of us there, we should have a shot at not having it in our game if that's what we choose.  Screw "artistic integrity".  There's a picture of a guy with a bull whip up his butt in a New York art gallery...and I don't call that art nor do i think it has any integrity.

Modifié par Raseri, 25 mars 2012 - 08:33 .

[furryrage59]

Lord Aesir wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...

The pro crappy ending fanatics don't even understand what the majority have been complaining about.

I don't think you understand why some of us oppose the institution of a true "Happy Ending".  Do you?

You make it sound like a happy ending after fighting your ass with loved ones/friends is a bad thing.

There is nothing wrong with a full spectrum of endings, from reapers win, all flavours in between and winning the war with losses (not full retard like right now) and there is no reason at all why you shouldnt be able to have a decent conclusion with your suriving mates.

but not edgy enough or whatever....

Edit - Even an ending where we see them start to rebuild and the aftermath of the war or having a last chat like at the end of DA:O would have been fine.

Modifié par furryrage59, 25 mars 2012 - 08:35 .

[Raseri]

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

[Heimdall]

furryrage59 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...

The pro crappy ending fanatics don't even understand what the majority have been complaining about.

I don't think you understand why some of us oppose the institution of a true "Happy Ending".  Do you?

You make it sound like a happy ending after fighting your ass with loved ones/friends is a bad thing.

There is nothing wrong with a full spectrum of endings, from reapers win, all flavours in between and winning the war with losses (not full retard like right now) and there is no reason at all why you shouldnt be able to have a decent conclusion with your suriving mates.

but not edgy enough or whatever....

Edit - Even an ending where we see them start to rebuild and the aftermath of the war or having a last chat like at the end of DA:O would have been fine.

If the endings were all balanced like in DA:O I would be fine.  In DA:O there was always a price.  The sacrifice of either yourself, Alistair, or Loghain; or preventing the destruction of the Archdemon and potentially unleashing a menace on the world.  There was always equal price and consequence.  As long as that balance is maintained, I don't mind what endings are added.  I just thing a "happy" ending is a bit of a misnomer in that case,

[DeinonSlayer]

Raseri wrote...

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

He's already answered this several times. He isn't opposed to an ending where Shepard reunites with his/her crew and love interest, so long as it's proportional. I could be called a "happy ender," and I don't think this is unreasonable.

A suggestion I leveled earlier, Refuse, has the best possible result being Reapers at Earth defeated, Shepard reunited with crew/LI and the relays intact, at the cost of some Reapers surviving elsewhere with unknown future implications, the fleet you gathered having been practically destroyed, and a galaxy thrown into political chaos with an open foundation for future wars. Shepard goes into hiding for his/her own protection and settles down with their LI, if they have one. That's a balanced ending I can live with.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 25 mars 2012 - 08:50 .

[Heimdall]

Raseri wrote...

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

Read the prior few pages.  My ending and yours cannot coexist unless yours is balanced with proper consequence.  I will not reiterate yet again why this is so.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

OP is an idiot. Plain and simple.

People are calling for a ending which makes sense and has variation. If that includes a "Disney ending" as one of the options then so be it.

[UBER GEEKZILLA]

rlly? first people **** about the ending being changed...now they DONT want it changed...make up you minds dammit

if you guys dont want the ending change then do bioware a favor and try boosting up the metacritic user score or smthin

[Raseri]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Raseri wrote...

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

Read the prior few pages.  My ending and yours cannot coexist unless yours is balanced with proper consequence.  I will not reiterate yet again why this is so.

No...really??  Phht, you don't think billions dead including most of Shepard's friends, isn't bad enough?  Do you understand the concept of BILLIONS dead?  The price for a good ending has already been paid.  Entire species are gone, entire star systems devoid of intelligent life.  It is seriously disturbing if that isn't bad enough.  Bottom line is, there should be a full spectrum of endings.  Heck that adds replayability right there.  You can keep your horror show ending, give me my good one.

[furryrage59]

Lord Aesir wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

furryrage59 wrote...

The pro crappy ending fanatics don't even understand what the majority have been complaining about.

I don't think you understand why some of us oppose the institution of a true "Happy Ending".  Do you?

You make it sound like a happy ending after fighting your ass with loved ones/friends is a bad thing.

There is nothing wrong with a full spectrum of endings, from reapers win, all flavours in between and winning the war with losses (not full retard like right now) and there is no reason at all why you shouldnt be able to have a decent conclusion with your suriving mates.

but not edgy enough or whatever....

Edit - Even an ending where we see them start to rebuild and the aftermath of the war or having a last chat like at the end of DA:O would have been fine.

If the endings were all balanced like in DA:O I would be fine.  In DA:O there was always a price.  The sacrifice of either yourself, Alistair, or Loghain; or preventing the destruction of the Archdemon and potentially unleashing a menace on the world.  There was always equal price and consequence.  As long as that balance is maintained, I don't mind what endings are added.  I just thing a "happy" ending is a bit of a misnomer in that case,

I agree, but i feel the current balance is very out of line, too bleak atm.

If almost everyone died for example and as my shep is running away from explosions and gets picked up before it blows up, damaging the ship severely and sends me spiralling in flames towards Earth, with some flashbacks of events/people throughout the games and then explode into a ball of fire, i could live with that.

Edit - I want to hang with my crew and share war stories whilst bouncing a little blue baby on my knee dammit

Modifié par furryrage59, 25 mars 2012 - 08:54 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Raseri wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Raseri wrote...

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

Read the prior few pages.  My ending and yours cannot coexist unless yours is balanced with proper consequence.  I will not reiterate yet again why this is so.

No...really??  Phht, you don't think billions dead including most of Shepard's friends, isn't bad enough?  Do you understand the concept of BILLIONS dead?  The price for a good ending has already been paid.  Entire species are gone, entire star systems devoid of intelligent life.  It is seriously disturbing if that isn't bad enough.  Bottom line is, there should be a full spectrum of endings.  Heck that adds replayability right there.  You can keep your horror show ending, give me my good one.

Aesir and I had a long discussion earlier. His interpretation of the consequences of the existing endings isn't as bleak as my own. For the record, just what would you consider a "good" ending? Aesir has already said he wouldn't be opposed to an ending where Shepard reunites with crew/LI so long as the consequences are proportional. Would you be amenable to a solution such as the one I described above? You'll find it described in greater detail back on page 8.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 25 mars 2012 - 08:55 .

[Melra]

Raseri wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Raseri wrote...

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

Read the prior few pages.  My ending and yours cannot coexist unless yours is balanced with proper consequence.  I will not reiterate yet again why this is so.

No...really??  Phht, you don't think billions dead including most of Shepard's friends, isn't bad enough?  Do you understand the concept of BILLIONS dead?  The price for a good ending has already been paid.  Entire species are gone, entire star systems devoid of intelligent life.  It is seriously disturbing if that isn't bad enough.  Bottom line is, there should be a full spectrum of endings.  Heck that adds replayability right there.  You can keep your horror show ending, give me my good one.

You're just silly.

[Heimdall]

Raseri wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Raseri wrote...

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

Read the prior few pages.  My ending and yours cannot coexist unless yours is balanced with proper consequence.  I will not reiterate yet again why this is so.

No...really??  Phht, you don't think billions dead including most of Shepard's friends, isn't bad enough?  Do you understand the concept of BILLIONS dead?  The price for a good ending has already been paid.  Entire species are gone, entire star systems devoid of intelligent life.  It is seriously disturbing if that isn't bad enough.  Bottom line is, there should be a full spectrum of endings.  Heck that adds replayability right there.  You can keep your horror show ending, give me my good one.

You didn't even look back did you?  Well, what DeinonSlayer said.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 25 mars 2012 - 09:00 .

[Talon2000uk]

Raseri wrote...

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

This, exactly this and I would not just direct this coment at Aesir but at Casey as well. 

Modifié par Talon2000uk, 25 mars 2012 - 09:02 .

[Heimdall]

Talon2000uk wrote...

Raseri wrote...

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

This, exactly this and I would not just direct this coment at Raseri but at Casey as well. 

The issue is much more nuanced than that.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 25 mars 2012 - 09:03 .

[Talon2000uk]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Talon2000uk wrote...

Raseri wrote...

@Aesir:

Why would you "oppose" anyone else's chance of a true happy ending? You want your horrible, depressing ending, you already got 3...but why the heck would you oppose one for anybody but you? I don't oppose your right to have your craptacular ending, you don't oppose my desire to have a chance at a happy ending. My single player games are none of your business.

This, exactly this and I would not just direct this coment at Raseri but at Casey as well. 

The issue is much more nuanced than that.

No it really isnt, I don't object to you having your nihilistic ending, do me the courtesy of not objecting to me having my "Happy" ending. 

Despite what you have writen having a good ending does not make your ending invalid just different. If you feel you have to be rail roaded into having a depresing ending then that is your problem not mine.