391 réponses à ce sujet

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

Shinian2 wrote...

Noone asked for this and noone at Bioware said they were thinking of doing this.

I want the option for it.

[Aslanasadi]

Heather Cline wrote...

Lord Aesir I'm not a proponent for a ending where you get one single ending that has the best results. Many of us for having the happy ending want really that Shepard ends up with her/his LI and possibly crew members in the end. It's not all sunshine and rainbows. The galaxy is devastated, Earth if it survived needs a long time to rebuild and repopulate among other problems. There is no perfect ending where it's disney. No it will still be a bleak future but the fact is the happy ending many of us want is just Shepard alive with LI and crew in the end.

That's not too much to ask for as a happy ending.

This 

[Heather Cline]

However your ending has the same problem Lord Aesir where if Shepard sacrifices her/his self you get the better ending. I see your point though so both of our preferred way of doing the endings are flawed.

So instead of getting the better ending through sacrifice or through non-sacrifice there should be a better option. I'm not sure what it is but getting the better ending shouldn't be through self sacrifice or non-self sacrifice. If we could come up with a third option that makes both camps happy then we could have a middle ground.

[Heather Cline]

I think I know of an option. They did it in Dragon Age Origins. The Dark Ritual with Morrigan allowed you to survive if you took the option. If you rejected that option you then had to choose to either sacrifice Alistair or Loghain or yourself.

If we could implement something similar to the Dark Ritual like say some kind of technological option that you had the choice of using or not using. This way you had the choice of using this thing to defeat the reapers or not. You use it, you survive and continue on. You refuse to use it you can then sacrifice yourself and the galaxy goes on.

This way like the Dark Ritual no matter what option you choose the best ending isn't dependent upon self sacrifice or non-self sacrifice. Both sides would still get the best ending if they did everything right it would just be a matter of using this technological marvel or not.

[grimkillah]

The ideal ending is one that the gamer creates it. If you want Shepard to die for greater good, fine, if you want Shepard to have blue children, fine, if you want Shepard to control reapers and turn on his former alien allies, fine. As far as I consider, there should be many wildly different ending based on who you romanced, your character style, and you allies, and your desire to shape the world in ways you wished. One official ending just isn't acceptable, neither is denying other the ending they wanted.

Modifié par grimkillah, 25 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Heather Cline wrote...

Now that I can't agree upon where you have galactic devastation greater if Shepard survives than if she/he dies. Instead the galactic devastation should be dependent on the EMS which it should have been all along. If you have crappy EMS a way out to save the galaxy from utter doom would be Shepard Sacrificing her/his self. If you have good EMS then dying doesn't have to be the only option. It is a option if you feel that you need to die to get better results but doesn't need to be.

So no having the galaxy have a better chance if Shepard dies than if Shepard survives is not really a logical thing to do. We have all this EMS and in your way of thinking is utterly useless as it is now. If we implemented the EMS in a better way then you have a better chance of saving the galaxy without sacrifice though it's still an option just not one you have to take.

That's why I'm a proponent of the Refuse ending. I described it in brief earlier, and in more detail with Lord Aesir yesterday. Shepard simply refuses to choose any of the options presented by the Catalyst, and lets the battle play out to its natural conclusion, giving us four new outcomes depending on your degree of preparation.

* Reapers win, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Cycle continues (Liara Archive epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Memorial epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Funeral epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard lives, Relays intact (LI/crew reunion, hardest to earn, like with the current Shepard Lives/Destroy ending)

It would be easy for them to implement, too. See the poll in my sig for a more detailed description. Refuse ending would carry its own sacrifice, and its own set of troubling implications for the future. The fleet you brought with you would be almost totally destroyed in the process, even if they won the fight. Instead of the quiet stagnation of starving colonies and isolated, limping core worlds that we have with the relays being destroyed, there would be absolute chaos.

Given the massive shifts in power Shepard has instituted, and the losses everyone has absorbed, any scenario where the relays survive would leave the galaxy in unrest. All species would still be in contact with each other - but they're not necessarily ready for that.  The humanitarian crisis would be somewhat averted, but in its place we'd have a political ****storm that would have made Udina blanch, and an open foundation for future wars. The Turians don't have their fleet anymore, which was the foundation of their power. Imagine what the Krogan would do after the war if they learned they were duped with a fake cure, and still had relay access. The power struggles would be massive, and Shepard wouldn't be the most popular guy in the galaxy, having stood by and watched the fleet get torn apart if (s)he had the opportunity to end it at any time. Even if Shepard got to settle down with their LI, they'd likely have to go into hiding for his/her own protection. I had no interest in being a "legend" anyway...

This "happy" ending bears its own unique set of problems, but they're problems I can live with.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 25 mars 2012 - 04:50 .

[Heather Cline]

grim that's a good way of putting it. I was trying to put that forth myself but lacked the words to describe it. Thank you.

[Pappi]

Wait...why don't you want people to be happy? 0_o There could be a happy ending, a sad one and a strange one. What is the problem?

[oblique9]

* Reapers win, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Cycle continues (Liara Archive epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Memorial epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Funeral epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard lives, Relays intact (LI/crew reunion, hardest to earn, like with the current Shepard Lives/Destroy ending)

- This seems reasonable to me. And I agree, I think it's a reasonable expectation....

[Heather Cline]

Deinon another good way to implement endings. I like the thought out way you did it.

[Eyeofanger]

fetissimies wrote...

Adding a Disney Movie ending just to please a bunch of whiners would be a huge disappointment in my opinion. I hope Bioware has the guts to stand behind their original game design.

after a second playthrough I saw how beautiful the end was on my first playthrough I destroyed the reapers on my second one I used synthesis. Still I won't say no to a dlc that offers some clarification

[Dav3VsTh3World]

oblique9 wrote...

* Reapers win, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Cycle continues (Liara Archive epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Memorial epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Funeral epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard lives, Relays intact (LI/crew reunion, hardest to earn, like with the current Shepard Lives/Destroy ending)

- This seems reasonable to me. And I agree, I think it's a reasonable expectation....

If that was the case everyone would go for the top ending, thus the game would be way too predictable, and not worth it

[Heather Cline]

Not right away. If they had implemented the endings like Deinon had wrote and no one knew that getting a lot of EMS would get the best ending some would get one of the 3 bad endings and then they'd try again for something different.

However as the endings stand not many people want to try again because all the endings are the same. Just minor tweaks here and there to make them seem different.

[TheChris92]

The ideal of a supposed 'happy ending', whom some people are asking for including myself, is not really the sort of ending that the OP is thinking of. When people ask for a happy ending, I think, they are generally referring to the fact that they want the option of Shepard surviving and being with her crew/LI. It's a galactic war, and a lot of people have already died during the events of the game even before the ending occurred. It can't end like a disney movie, as the OP puts it, but it can end with an hopeful outcome that allows the citizens of the galaxy to start over. The endings we've got did not give that impression. Dragon Age Origins gave you the choice of getting a supposed 'happy-ending', though with the price of bringing a child with the soul of an Old God to the world. Whatever repercussions that will have for Thedas remains to be seen I suppose. That's what people are asking for. They are asking for the 'option' and the choice of deciding the fate of the galaxy and Shepard. They want to have a chance of getting this. They've worked hard through 3 games in order to reach this moment, and I think people deserve the option of a happy ending. That's all I can say about it.

Modifié par TheChris92, 25 mars 2012 - 04:40 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

oblique9 wrote...

* Reapers win, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Cycle continues (Liara Archive epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Memorial epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Funeral epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard lives, Relays intact (LI/crew reunion, hardest to earn, like with the current Shepard Lives/Destroy ending)

- This seems reasonable to me. And I agree, I think it's a reasonable expectation....

If that was the case everyone would go for the top ending, thus the game would be way too predictable, and not worth it

Read the full description above. It carries its own unique set of problems, it's up to the player's interpretation if they're better or worse than what we have now.

[Artemis_Entrari]

I've always thought that if there was going to be "sacrifice" forced on a player, it should make sense in the context of the game, and based on how a player's Shepard acts.

For instance, three quick options for one particular ending choice:

The scenario: Before the Crucible will fire, it has a safety timer that  must run down first.  It will take 5 minutes (in-game clock ticking down) to charge up, but during that time a lot of the fleet gets destroyed by the Reapers, buying time for Shepard to fire the Crucible.  There's an option to speed up the charging time, but it requires someone to enter some kind of shaft to override the safety timer, and remove it for instant firing.  Problem?  Whoever does so dies since the Crucible fires right away, instead of after the person has had time to move away.

Option 1-The sacrifice ending -- Shepard sees the fleet being decimated, so he decides he'll manually override the safety timer.  He does so, sacrificing himself but saving the majority of the fleet from destruction.

Option 2 -The I want to live ending -- Shepard waits for the timer to run down, watching as half the fleet gets obliterated, then safely fires the Crucible after the time is up.  He survives, but many in the fleet, including some of his friends who happened to be in the space battle above, don't.

Option 3-The "perfect" ending -- if your EMS is high enough, and you've done everything "right" leading up to this point, Shepard can wait for the timer to elapse and survive because the fleet he has amassed is strong enough to withstand whatever the Reapers throw at them for the 5 minutes.  Minor casualties only.

If Bio was going to go with a limited 3 options for everyone, how many fans would have been that irate
with the endings even if BioWare only gave those three endings?

Modifié par Artemis_Entrari, 25 mars 2012 - 04:53 .

[Little Queen]

fetissimies wrote...

Adding a Disney Movie ending just to please a bunch of whiners would be a huge disappointment in my opinion. I hope Bioware has the guts to stand behind their original game design.

You know i partly agree with you here, but Bioware can still stand behind their Original gamedesigns and add new endings for those that might need it also a happy ening, whats the big deal with that? 

[Heimdall]

Heather Cline wrote...

However your ending has the same problem Lord Aesir where if Shepard sacrifices her/his self you get the better ending. I see your point though so both of our preferred way of doing the endings are flawed.

So instead of getting the better ending through sacrifice or through non-sacrifice there should be a better option. I'm not sure what it is but getting the better ending shouldn't be through self sacrifice or non-self sacrifice. If we could come up with a third option that makes both camps happy then we could have a middle ground.

I don't honestly think there is a perfect way to implement endings.  I don't think the sacrifice endings should be "better" persay.  Only that they should be better for the galaxy while non-sacrifice endings should be better for Shepard and the crew.  Somewhat in line with DeinonSlayer's refuse idea.

I will say that I think DA:O implemented endings in a way that I feel fell in line with my method.  There was the sacrifice of the Warden, Alistair or Loghain on one hand, and the potential release of an old god child menace into the world in the hands of a witch that refuses to explain her plans.  I felt those endings had balanced prices.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 25 mars 2012 - 04:59 .

[BeefoTheBold]

oblique9 wrote...

* Reapers win, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Cycle continues (Liara Archive epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Memorial epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Funeral epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard lives, Relays intact (LI/crew reunion, hardest to earn, like with the current Shepard Lives/Destroy ending)

- This seems reasonable to me. And I agree, I think it's a reasonable expectation....

Throw in a little more variation for your playing a Paragon or  Renegade and I agree.

This is a good start, but your moral choices need to matter as well. Eight endings total. Two variations of each of the above.

Could probably make it seven because you don't need to make a good/bad ending if the Reapers win that shows the impact of Shep on the races.

[DeinonSlayer]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

oblique9 wrote...

* Reapers win, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Cycle continues (Liara Archive epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Memorial epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Funeral epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard lives, Relays intact (LI/crew reunion, hardest to earn, like with the current Shepard Lives/Destroy ending)

- This seems reasonable to me. And I agree, I think it's a reasonable expectation....

Throw in a little more variation for your playing a Paragon or  Renegade and I agree.

This is a good start, but your moral choices need to matter as well. Eight endings total. Two variations of each of the above.

Could probably make it seven because you don't need to make a good/bad ending if the Reapers win that shows the impact of Shep on the races.

Check out the full description above. Oblique9 quoted a small part of it. With the relays intact, your actions throughout the game would have more immediate and (arguably) severe consequences. Instead of stagnation induced by isolation, there would be absolute chaos.

[Cartims]

Celleye wrote...

People aren't complaining about the fact that the ending is "sad" or that they want a "happy" ending. I went through the entire game expecting to sacrifice myself at the end and see nice closure ala Dragon Age and instead I get some of the most illogical **** I've ever seen in my life.

The ending is not sad, happy, bittersweet or funny it is **** beyond words. Nor has Bioware said that they would add a Disney ending but that they would add closure and fix the glaring plotholes our endings gave us.

A Disney ending...errr

Old Yellow - they shoot the dog
Bambi - His mom dies
Dumbo - His mom is in the crazy house
The Lion King - His dad dies
Snow White -attempted homicide
Cinderella - Child abuse....

[Arch1eviathan]

oblique9 wrote...

* Reapers win, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Cycle continues (Liara Archive epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy destroyed in battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Memorial epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard dies, Relays intact (Funeral epilogue)
* Reapers defeated, Normandy survives battle, Shepard lives, Relays intact (LI/crew reunion, hardest to earn, like with the current Shepard Lives/Destroy ending)

- This seems reasonable to me. And I agree, I think it's a reasonable expectation....

That would be cool. I would just sprinkle a few more variations around these endings in there.

[DarkStar33Cdn]

If you need closure in every story you read I have to question why you even read.

Sometimes the discussions that happen afterwards are more important then the thought that spurred the discussion to begin with.

[chris fenton]

Is someone making you buy this DLC? No? Then why ruin it for others?