92 réponses à ce sujet

[spacehamsterZH]

Thread title slightly changed for clarity. Point stands.

Hyperbole gets us nowhere, folks. To say ME3 shows a complete lack of
respect for the entire Mass Effect universe or its fans is just
ridiculous. I wonder if the people who say this even played the game, or
if they just watched the last 10 minutes on Youtube. The entire damn
game is basically a love letter to the previous two games and to the
fans, endless references upon references to obscure and not-so-obscure
past events, little winks and nods everywhere. It's practically all the
game does. Sure, it completely implodes at the end, and sure, the ending
basically negates everything that came before it, but in the grand
scheme of things, that's one misstep, albeit a major one, in a game that
otherwise shows nothing but respect for the two that came before it.
And overstating this doesn't help anything, it just makes you look like a
typical internet complainer. There are sound reasons to criticize this
game. "Bioware have no respect for us or their franchise anymore" is not
one of them.

*gets off soapbox*

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 24 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[Aesieru]

Assets don't matter.

Choices don't matter.

Continuity doesn't matter.

Our characters don't matter.

The time we spent with them doesn't matter.

Our relations don't matter.

We were lied to numerous times in their interviews. We are not being unfair.

[D1ck1e]

Most people will always remember the endin first and most. Bioware should know this, if they didn't.

[Geth_Huntha]

I'm starting to think the endings are just a sign that they were rushed. Plenty of bad games were made because of time constraints forcing a developer to release an unpolished/poorly designed/badly written game. It just sucks that it had to happen to the end of this awesome trilogy. At least the first 95% of this game is amazing.

[Draconis6666]

The ending totaly disrespects the franchise since apparenty the ending was never intended to provide any sense of closure or clarity to the series. They decided that making you feel stuff was more important than explaining the series or giving it a purpose. So yes the ending totaly does disrespect the entire franchise. Does ME 3 itself? no... but the ending sure does

[Lady Catastrophe]

'...the endings are not evidence of Bioware disrespecting the entire franchise.'

I beg to differ.

[Hexley UK]

Aesieru wrote...

Assets don't matter.

Choices don't matter.

Continuity doesn't matter.

Our characters don't matter.

The time we spent with them doesn't matter.

Our relations don't matter.

We were lied to numerous times in their interviews. We are not being unfair.

+1

[coolbeans]

I dont think they went into it thinking "lets banjax the entire franchise" I think they just made a terrible terrible mistake with the ending and now cant back down.

[RiouHotaru]

Aesieru wrote...

Assets don't matter.

Choices don't matter.

Continuity doesn't matter.

Our characters don't matter.

The time we spent with them doesn't matter.

Our relations don't matter.

We were lied to numerous times in their interviews. We are not being unfair.

But neither choices, nor continutiy, nor characters or anything mattered in either ME1 or 2.  And Assets do matter, because it determines the quality of the ending.  And the choices got you those assets, as did continuity.

[nomoredruggs]

It's true that there's all those little references and nods (AND shirtless Kaidan) that read like a love letter to the fans.

It makes the disconnect with the ending even more uncomprehensible and hurtful, but I agree that ofcourse Bioware was in no way trying to be disrespectful of their franchise or their fans.

I think they made a very unfortunate decision regarding the ending, be it because they wanted to give us something different or just run out of time and had to cut a lot of what they were going to use or some other reason.

[Aesieru]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Assets don't matter.

Choices don't matter.

Continuity doesn't matter.

Our characters don't matter.

The time we spent with them doesn't matter.

Our relations don't matter.

We were lied to numerous times in their interviews. We are not being unfair.

But neither choices, nor continutiy, nor characters or anything mattered in either ME1 or 2.  And Assets do matter, because it determines the quality of the ending.  And the choices got you those assets, as did continuity.

When you can explain to me how having a massive fleet determines the color's availabel for a beam (arguably you could say the assets related ONLY to the crucible engineering could).

Our assets didn't matter, they were replaced in the cutscenes with generic armies and fleets that made no sense, were illogical to ME technology and knowledge, and failed miserably, and weren't what I built, same with the army.

[zarnk567]

Aesieru wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Assets don't matter.

Choices don't matter.

Continuity doesn't matter.

Our characters don't matter.

The time we spent with them doesn't matter.

Our relations don't matter.

We were lied to numerous times in their interviews. We are not being unfair.

But neither choices, nor continutiy, nor characters or anything mattered in either ME1 or 2.  And Assets do matter, because it determines the quality of the ending.  And the choices got you those assets, as did continuity.

When you can explain to me how having a massive fleet determines the color's availabel for a beam (arguably you could say the assets related ONLY to the crucible engineering could).

Our assets didn't matter, they were replaced in the cutscenes with generic armies and fleets that made no sense, were illogical to ME technology and knowledge, and failed miserably, and weren't what I built, same with the army.

I NEVER GOT TO SEE MY GETH GROUND TROOPS BIOWARE.....

[spacehamsterZH]

@Aesieru, past choices and relationships with characters matter a whole lot when it comes to how things play out over the course of ME3 - for example, Wrex repeatedly reminds you that he no longer trusts you because you destroyed Maelon's data, if that's what you did. I just think this should be acknowledged.

Totally agree that gathering war assets is rendered pointless by the ending, though.

[jbauck]

Hmm ... respectfully disagree with OP.

Mass Effect >was< the pinnacle of interactive storytelling achievement. "Interactive" is the operative word. The ME3 ending as-is shows a total lack of respect for the player's contribution to the story. Unlike a static piece of "art", Mass Effect 3 is designed to allow the player to navigate the story as they see fit, by giving the player the power to define Shepard as something more than "Generic Space Marine #6".

When huge swathes of your fandom are looking at the ending choices and saying to themselves "why is >my< Shepard standing there like an idiot and just accepting everything the Reaper Control Unit says as truth?" ... that's a huge interactive storytelling problem. Shepard no longer belongs to the player, and is co-opted by the writers and the game as a sacrifice to the Reaper God in a contrived mess of plot-holes, thematic shifts, and exactly the A, B or C ending pre-release PR statements said this game >wouldn't< have.

[ShepnTali]

Replayability went in the toilet. More of a terrible goof than disrespect.... I hope.

[Valdaka]

Aesieru wrote...


Assets don't matter.

Choices don't matter.

Continuity doesn't matter.

Our characters don't matter.

The time we spent with them doesn't matter.

Our relations don't matter.

We were lied to numerous times in their interviews. We are not being unfair.

This 100 times:unsure:

I am waiting for PAX see what they say but if nothing major happens till may 15th Diablo 3 realease, finges crossed that BW is planning something big:? 

[jb1983]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Assets don't matter.

Choices don't matter.

Continuity doesn't matter.

Our characters don't matter.

The time we spent with them doesn't matter.

Our relations don't matter.

We were lied to numerous times in their interviews. We are not being unfair.

But neither choices, nor continutiy, nor characters or anything mattered in either ME1 or 2.  And Assets do matter, because it determines the quality of the ending.  And the choices got you those assets, as did continuity.

Right, because in ME2 my choices had absolutely no impact on whether anyone lived or died...

ME1 you have a point, but that's because the whole point of ME1 is that it was setting the stage for how ME2 and 3 would play out. We were told that the decisions we made then would have massive impacts on how the game played in 2 and 3. Oops. 

The whole point is that ME3 was supposed to be the most freeing. Hudson even said in multiple interviews that what he liked about this is that it was the final game. Thus, they didn't need similar endings because there wasn't anything coming after this. Instead, we all got the same ending when there was absolutely no reason to it; there isn't going to be an ME4 (at least not one with Shepard in it), so the endings could have been similar enough to create an ME4, but different enough for Shepard to have a different experience. 

But that didn't happen. 

So did this ruin the franchise? Yes, because it went against the entire point of the franchise, that your decisions matter. 

Face it - Bioware dropped the ball. Instead of an epic ending to Mass Effect, we got Commander Shepard and His Amazing Technocolor Starchild.

Modifié par jb1983, 24 mars 2012 - 03:30 .

[AntiDave]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Hyperbole gets us nowhere, folks. To say ME3 shows a complete lack of
respect for the entire Mass Effect universe or its fans is just
ridiculous. I wonder if the people who say this even played the game, or
if they just watched the last 10 minutes on Youtube. The entire damn
game is basically a love letter to the previous two games and to the
fans, endless references upon references to obscure and not-so-obscure
past events, little winks and nods everywhere. It's practically all the
game does. Sure, it completely implodes at the end, and sure, the ending
basically negates everything that came before it, but in the grand
scheme of things, that's one misstep, albeit a major one, in a game that
otherwise shows nothing but respect for the two that came before it.
And overstating this doesn't help anything, it just makes you look like a
typical internet complainer. There are sound reasons to criticize this
game. "Bioware have no respect for us or their franchise anymore" is not
one of them.

*gets off soapbox*

I played the entire game about 4 times now, 2 times ME2 import and 2 time NG+ so you can'6t accuse me of not having played the game. When I saw the ending I felt that Bioware had just grown to hate their own universe and crushed allk of it in depression. That sometimes can happoen when passion tuirns into performance pressure.
This rush-job nding completely didn't do justice to the franchise at all whilst a beatiful universe like ME deserves miore. Perhaps you are happily picking up a game like Call of Duty and enjoy that kind of entertainment fast food.
But if I want to be entertained I don't want a comapny like Bioware to LAUGH ME IN THE FACE, to urinate allover the sci-fi universe that I grew to admire over the year. Because when I spend time gaming I want that time spent in a worthwhile fashion. So NO I am not going to be 'reasonable'  I AM NOT ASKING FOR LESS THIS TIME!

[cuzsal]

Aesieru wrote...

Assets don't matter.

Choices don't matter.

Continuity doesn't matter.

Our characters don't matter.

The time we spent with them doesn't matter.

Our relations don't matter.

We were lied to numerous times in their interviews. We are not being unfair.

[wright1978]

jbauck wrote...

Hmm ... respectfully disagree with OP.

Mass Effect >was< the pinnacle of interactive storytelling achievement. "Interactive" is the operative word. The ME3 ending as-is shows a total lack of respect for the player's contribution to the story. Unlike a static piece of "art", Mass Effect 3 is designed to allow the player to navigate the story as they see fit, by giving the player the power to define Shepard as something more than "Generic Space Marine #6".

When huge swathes of your fandom are looking at the ending choices and saying to themselves "why is >my< Shepard standing there like an idiot and just accepting everything the Reaper Control Unit says as truth?" ... that's a huge interactive storytelling problem. Shepard no longer belongs to the player, and is co-opted by the writers and the game as a sacrifice to the Reaper God in a contrived mess of plot-holes, thematic shifts, and exactly the A, B or C ending pre-release PR statements said this game >wouldn't< have.

Yep this.

[Draconis6666]

coolbeans wrote...

I dont think they went into it thinking "lets banjax the entire franchise" I think they just made a terrible terrible mistake with the ending and now cant back down.

Which is where they are disrespecting the entire franchise, they are refusing to admit to and correct their mistake at the possible sake of dooming the entire franchise, a tremendous disrespect.

[Ender99]

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if they had not outright lied to us before the games release. They did, and I would call lying to me disrespecting me.

Honestly that upsets me just as much as the ending of the game.

Hold the line.

[Davnort]

jbauck wrote...

Hmm ... respectfully disagree with OP.

Mass Effect >was< the pinnacle of interactive storytelling achievement. "Interactive" is the operative word. The ME3 ending as-is shows a total lack of respect for the player's contribution to the story. Unlike a static piece of "art", Mass Effect 3 is designed to allow the player to navigate the story as they see fit, by giving the player the power to define Shepard as something more than "Generic Space Marine #6".

When huge swathes of your fandom are looking at the ending choices and saying to themselves "why is >my< Shepard standing there like an idiot and just accepting everything the Reaper Control Unit says as truth?" ... that's a huge interactive storytelling problem. Shepard no longer belongs to the player, and is co-opted by the writers and the game as a sacrifice to the Reaper God in a contrived mess of plot-holes, thematic shifts, and exactly the A, B or C ending pre-release PR statements said this game >wouldn't< have.

good job

[Shalstev]

RiouHotaru wrote...

But neither choices, nor continutiy, nor characters or anything mattered in either ME1 or 2.  And Assets do matter, because it determines the quality of the ending.  And the choices got you those assets, as did continuity.

After I finished my completionist playthrough, I watched a friend of mine complete his apocalypse playthrough. He'd done his very best to kill off as many characters as he could, ****** everyone off, and generally make a complete mess of things. I had chosen to control the Reapers. Since he had saved the collector base, control was the only option he had. We got exactly the same ending.

Go on. Tell me my choices mattered. Tell me my war assets made a difference.

[spacehamsterZH]

So, basically, you're entirely ignoring everything I said except for the thread title so that you can complain s'more.

Looks like the Bioware ComplainBoard is finally back to normal. We were actually having reasonable complaints there for a while. lol.