92 réponses à ce sujet

[lillitheris]

spacehamsterZH wrote...
But see, this is just weird to me. I'm generally not willing to speculate one way or another how these things are decided at BW, but I'm pretty sure this isn't it - somebody who had little to nothing to do with the rest of the game stepping in at the last moment and dictating an ending to the team. It certainly feels just that tacked on, but that just doesn't make sense. The same team who gave you Garrus and Shepard shooting bottles at the top of the Presidium and the Liara romance and Mordin sacrificing himself to cure the Genophage somehow decided this ending was a good idea. As weird as that is, if you say these people disrespect the franchise, you're also saying all those other moments were worthless because they were also created by them.

Well, maybe this is the source of the confusion. Because it absolutely works exactly like this, it's not a democracy. (In fact, we have very credible ME3-specific information that the ending was done without input or review from pretty much the entire story team.) If the suits shut down the money tubes and push release, it'll be released.

[charon45]

zarnk567 wrote...

I NEVER GOT TO SEE MY GETH GROUND TROOPS BIOWARE.....

What about the Rachni?  All the queen did was give 100 ems.  I thought we were supposed to burn the darkness clean together.  

[spacehamsterZH]

lillitheris wrote...

Well, maybe this is the source of the confusion. Because it absolutely works exactly like this, it's not a democracy. (In fact, we have very credible ME3-specific information that the ending was done without input or review from pretty much the entire story team.) If the suits shut down the money tubes and push release, it'll be released.

That's not the same thing as saying somebody else forced the ending on them, though. Of course it's not a democracy - Casey Hudson and Mac Walters are in charge of this baby. And while I'm sure they were pressed for time at the end (let's not forget the game's release was suddenly postponed, and there are other parts that seem unfinished too, like the journal) and maybe things would have turned out differently if they had had more time, I seriously, seriously doubt some EA suit walked into Bioware's offices one day and told them to put a kid at the end of the game that garbles some horsesh!+ about saving organics from synthetics by having other synthetics kill them. If an EA suit had decided the ending, Shepard would've lived happily ever after and nothing would've been destroyed so that they can release tons more games using the same ideas and milk them for all eternity.

[raizin]

 by comparison

dragon age origins = we had some sort of assets and they actually participate in the final battle. The leaders you have recruited are also there helping out in the final battle. It mattered that you upgraded those guys so at least they can fight and survive.

Mass Effect 3 = your assets are merely cinematic cut scenes. I mean, where are my geth ground troops? Krogan shock troopers? Asari Snipers? etc... etc... when i had to hold the damn missle battery or anywhere in london?


Like heck... you might as well just kill everybody else in the galaxy since the ending pretty much kills them off anyways. You might as well just get to mars and skip right into the ending since everything else didn't matter. Heck the crucible assets you gathered? Like i dont even see them, even a cinematic..

[sydranark]

spacehamsterZH wrote...


obviously they
were caught by surprise by the negative response to the ending, and now
they have to decide what exactly to do. That takes a bit of time

I'm not expecting an immediate patch or DLC. The point I was trying to make was that they're being defensive about the whole thing. They aren't even accepting the fact that there needs to be change. For weeks, all people have been saying is "change" and all they have responded with was "clarity." They won't change the ending but they will clarify the already broken one. That and they're saying they're upset about all the negative feedback, they're disappointed that the fans don't like the ending, they quote high ratings from critics to deflect criticism. It's all pretty immature.

They need to nut up and say, "fans didn't like X, we are going to fix X." Not, "fans didn't like X; this hurts our feelings and also confuses us since Bob and Joe like X. But fine, if you want, we can explain X to you since you're too stupid to get it the first time around. But we won't change it because we think it's genius. And Bob and Joe think it's genius too. So there!"

Modifié par sydranark, 24 mars 2012 - 09:05 .

[KingKhan03]

Bottom line is ME3 was a great game but that ending just leaves a bitter taste wow it does kind of nullify replay value and you just can't get your heart in another playthrough.

[Arik7]

zarnk567 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Assets don't matter.

Choices don't matter.

Continuity doesn't matter.

Our characters don't matter.

The time we spent with them doesn't matter.

Our relations don't matter.

We were lied to numerous times in their interviews. We are not being unfair.

But neither choices, nor continutiy, nor characters or anything mattered in either ME1 or 2.  And Assets do matter, because it determines the quality of the ending.  And the choices got you those assets, as did continuity.

When you can explain to me how having a massive fleet determines the color's availabel for a beam (arguably you could say the assets related ONLY to the crucible engineering could).

Our assets didn't matter, they were replaced in the cutscenes with generic armies and fleets that made no sense, were illogical to ME technology and knowledge, and failed miserably, and weren't what I built, same with the army.

I NEVER GOT TO SEE MY GETH GROUND TROOPS BIOWARE.....

Instead of pre-rendered scenes, we should have seen OUR hard-earned armies and fleets in action, not different colors.

Modifié par Arik7, 24 mars 2012 - 09:17 .

[sistersafetypin]

Well that's just, uh... Your opinion Man... Mine says otherwise

[totalrecall87]

Draconis6666 wrote...

The ending totaly disrespects the franchise since apparenty the ending was never intended to provide any sense of closure or clarity to the series. They decided that making you feel stuff was more important than explaining the series or giving it a purpose. So yes the ending totaly does disrespect the entire franchise. Does ME 3 itself? no... but the ending sure does

Well said

[Vromrig]

It does. Ending undoes entire series in under five minutes.

Removing all consequences of choices, removal of galaxy on whole, disrespecting of entire franchise.

[TheRisenStar]

Honestly the game, while being very emotional and having great moments, was mediocre.

Anyone honestly going to tell me that the easter-egg hunt minigame with the "BLAAAARG"ing Reapers was amazing?

The entire war asset accumulation screams "slapped together" when you take into consideration what it really translates into (nothing) at the end.

And for anyone who still (though you'd have to be daft at this point to not have gotten it yet) thinks that your choices really matter in this game...

This is what we were promised:
"Mac Walters: "[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."(statement made on 2/28/2012 - a week before launch.)

This is the kind of thing we got:
+50 or whatever War Assets. No Rachni anywhere to be seen in the final battle on earth. All of that buildup in 3 games about the ultimate terrors of the galaxy and nada. Nothing.

We didn't even get a shot of the Geth doing anything at the end.

Compare that to the difference you get if you put in the effort in ME2 and ME3 just feels hollow.
Anyone who compares R/G/B to say, researching the Thanix cannon on the SR2 and slicing up the Collector ship or not (for example) is engaging in heavy confirmation bias about what ME3 really gave you as a result for your efforts.

[rinoe]

You know - I quite not in the mode to be resonable right now. I'm not a critic, just a player. And I don't like it. The truth is - I lost my heart to play bcs of the ending, so I'm just mad.
The game is very good - so what? I still don't want to play. There is no point with such ending.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Lady Catastrophe wrote...

'...the endings are not evidence of Bioware disrespecting the entire franchise.'

I beg to differ.

This says it all.

[aliengmr1]

Way I see it, the ending should have been planned when ME2 started development. Instead, all indications are that it wasn't finalized in November of last year. I don't need to tell people how singular and important the ending of ME3 was.

Im sure considering its importance that it would have been very hard to please everyone. But the fact it was thrown together at the last minute is what bothers me. It was far from their best work.

For me, then ending gives me nothing to strive for, since there is a complete lack of any pay off whatsoever. The fact they are all nearly identical further dissuades me from wanting to go through the series. Does it ruin the series? I don't know, but utterly killed replayability. DLC is also redundant. I have said it before, that isn't rage or anger, it complete resignation and lack of any interest.

I played ME1 and ME2 at least a dozen times each. Can't even do NG+ in ME3.

Modifié par aliengmr1, 24 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[spacehamsterZH]

sydranark wrote...
I'm not expecting an immediate patch or DLC. The point I was trying to make was that they're being defensive about the whole thing. They aren't even accepting the fact that there needs to be change. For weeks, all people have been saying is "change" and all they have responded with was "clarity." They won't change the ending but they will clarify the already broken one.

You're expecting a final answer to something that hasn't been decided yet and needs to be decided very carefully for any number of reasons. It's bad enough that they're in the current situation, but they really won't get two shots at fixing it. And since a fair chunk of the current problem is that people (rightfully) feel what they got isn't what they were promised, I can kind of see why they're wary of saying anything that's going to be interpreted as a promise. Of course what little has been said is also laced with PR double-speak, but that doesn't mean I can't understand that they won't announce anything tangible until they're sure that's what's going to happen.

They need to nut up and say, "fans didn't like X, we are going to fix X." Not, "fans didn't like X; this hurts our feelings and also confuses us since Bob and Joe like X. But fine, if you want, we can explain X to you since you're too stupid to get it the first time around. But we won't change it because we think it's genius. And Bob and Joe think it's genius too. So there!"

I'll give you a more sympathetic read of the same thing: they just wrote this and thought it was a pretty cool solution within whatever constraints were placed on them, and they didn't think about how people would react to it. A proper corporate entity focus-tests and streamlines its products until they know they'll sell. Bioware just had a creative brainfart and put it in the game. I can kind of sympathize with that - it's hard to be creative if you're constantly thinking about whether your audience will like what you're creating. So that's not the problem here. The problem is that there needed to be an editorial filter, there needed to be a procedure in place where someone had a chance to look at this and tell Hudson and Walters that it was a really bad idea from top to bottom.

[firebreather19]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Thread title slightly changed for clarity. Point stands.

Hyperbole gets us nowhere, folks. To say ME3 shows a complete lack of
respect for the entire Mass Effect universe or its fans is just
ridiculous. I wonder if the people who say this even played the game, or
if they just watched the last 10 minutes on Youtube. The entire damn
game is basically a love letter to the previous two games and to the
fans, endless references upon references to obscure and not-so-obscure
past events, little winks and nods everywhere. It's practically all the
game does. Sure, it completely implodes at the end, and sure, the ending
basically negates everything that came before it, but in the grand
scheme of things, that's one misstep, albeit a major one, in a game that
otherwise shows nothing but respect for the two that came before it.
And overstating this doesn't help anything, it just makes you look like a
typical internet complainer. There are sound reasons to criticize this
game. "Bioware have no respect for us or their franchise anymore" is not
one of them.

*gets off soapbox*

I'm not going to read the rest of the thread, because I'm going to go crazy over the whining.

I don't agree the ending necessarily implodes, but I respect your opinion of it, and especially that you can step aside and consider things from a different point of view. That's a useful tool, and it'll help you in the future.

[JulienJaden]

Vromrig wrote...

It does. Ending undoes entire series in under five minutes.

Removing all consequences of choices, removal of galaxy on whole, disrespecting of entire franchise.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[spirosz]

"In many ways this third game is the most ambitious Mass Effect yet but with the shortest development cycle" -Casey Hudson.

Rushed, that's all I'm saying with the endings.