1194 replies to this topic

[Darkrider296]

The Gallows has some screwed up stuff going on. Listen to what the mages walking by you say. Listen to what the Tranquil's walking by you say. Listen to the whippings and sceams you hear when you go by those gates in the Gallows. You can kill all the bad Templars you want yet the sexual abuse doesn't stop even in Act III its mentioned. Mages are made Tranquil for political purposes more and more. Also look for a scene involving an elf who sees his lover turned into a Tranquil. That scene was beyond disgusting. Screw the Templars they prove what Flemeth said. Sometimes the hearts of men hold things darker than any demon. STOP OPPRESSING THE MAGES  Its beyond disgusting what the Templars do to them And screw all the fans who like that bigot Cullen <_<

The Templars sometimes don't even let Mages go outside. And people wonder why so many Mages go insane

[glitter_guld]

They all abuse their power, Templars in Ferelden, Magisters in Tevinter, Rogues in Antiva. All three groups are relatively merciless towards the others, kill and torture non-stop. Supporting one of the groups is purely subjective. As a Hawke in Ferelden, I would support mages, because they are oppressed and because of Bethany and father.

[Lynata]

It comes down to whether you'd rather oppress a minority or allow entire communities to be threatened. Demonic possession and mages abusing their power are just as much a fact as the incidents involving templars committing crimes against those under their care - just that the latter is generally seen as less dangerous to Thedas as a whole.

People are also very quick to forget that there's a big difference between Kirkwall and other Templar garrisons, influenced by the local Veil being much thinner and the region sporting many more blood mages than elsewhere as well as the commander in charge being influenced by a corrupting artefact and the First Enchanter covering up forbidden magic. There are laws against mage abuse - it's just that in Kirkwall, the situation between templars and mages has deteriorated so far that many people on both sides don't care anymore for the cooperation that the Circles *should* be about.

Scaling down the issue to "templars are evil, stop oppressing the mages!" is an extremely simplified, biased and naive perspective, imo.

[Darkrider296]

Lynata wrote...

It comes down to whether you'd rather oppress a minority or allow entire communities to be threatened. Demonic possession and mages abusing their power are just as much a fact as the incidents involving templars committing crimes against those under their care - just that the latter is generally seen as less dangerous to Thedas as a whole.

People are also very quick to forget that there's a big difference between Kirkwall and other Templar garrisons, influenced by the local Veil being much thinner and the region sporting many more blood mages than elsewhere as well as the commander in charge being influenced by a corrupting artefact and the First Enchanter covering up forbidden magic. There are laws against mage abuse - it's just that in Kirkwall, the situation between templars and mages has deteriorated so far that many people on both sides don't care anymore for the cooperation that the Circles *should* be about.

Scaling down the issue to "templars are evil, stop oppressing the mages!" is an extremely simplified, biased and naive perspective, imo.

Yes Mages can be dumb. But that doesn't mean that all should be oppressed. I can imagine a world with a combined police force that could have mages in its ranks who fight all problems big and small. Monthly inspection squads could visit the mages and mage families to make sure that no has been taken over by a demon and/or practicing blood magic(I believe that power Anders uses in Eneimes Among Us would be the method). Mages would be allowed to see their family's and life would be for the better. Look how many people Anders saves. Can you imagine if Healers like him were a common thing across cities. Believe me I hate all opression to be found in Thedas. Don't assume that because I notice one crime that I forgot about others. I hope that Tevinter, the Qunari(their philisophy not the people), and all other corrupt empires eventually fall. 9:40 onwards is going to be intersting

[Darkrider296]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Zombie-Mom.

I was sympathetic toward mages in DA2 despite seeing obvious corruption everywhere I went. But when I found Zombie-Mom and read the letter signed by "O", I knew that even the First Enchanter was no good, the Circle was no good, and a nuking them was the only way to be certain.

That was the case of one mad man. Secondly much of the Circle sadly turned to blood magic out of circumstance not because of character prolems (although i bet some were just jerks). Evil is to be found in all groups that does not mean that all should suffer because of the actions of some

[Darkrider296]

Look at that Mad man in Act 1 who targets Elf's. I believe that part is in the game to show that evil and madness can come from anyone. People just forgot that because of the crime the Mage does against Hawke's mother is highly disturbing. There are scores of crazy non-mage people in the game. Should their races suffer for the actions of others?

[Dave of Canada]

"The Chantry seeks only to guide and defend these poor souls from their ignorance, the "educated" mages may complain while they live comfortably in their "prisons" while the uneducated poor and the weak live out their lives in the streets dying of plague and famine.

Why must my taxes go into supporting the bastards who're capable of making my blood boil, summon demons and pillage alone? We should be chopping their heads off, feeding them to the Mabari! Least then they'd be useful! Damn shame the Chantry won't see it that way.

So I say we let the blighters rot with their soft beds and warm food, lest they get the idea that all of Thedas lives in such comfort. Might give them ideas, thinking they deserve the same out here. Certainly need no other Tevinter.

"Those poor mages" my warty arse."

9:34 Dragon
Gustav Montremillion, Orlesian Chevalier

[Realmzmaster]

Darkrider296 wrote...

Look at that Mad man in Act 1 who targets Elf's. I believe that part is in the game to show that evil and madness can come from anyone. People just forgot that because of the crime the Mage does against Hawke's mother is highly disturbing. There are scores of crazy non-mage people in the game. Should their races suffer for the actions of others?

Unfortunately that happens races do suffer because of the actions of a minority or inaction by the majority.
The situation is not black and white. Mages have the potenial to lay wastes to villages before they can be stopped Merril used blood mage to detect the taint in the blood to see if Keran was possessed (so the mage would did the monthly inspection would have to know blood magic to feel the taint or lack of it.). Anders has a creature of the Fade in him so he can detect demons (not an option open to most mages).

Yes, it is wrong to oppress mages. Depending on the mage some are given far more freedom that others depending on the Circle (Wynne and even Bethany is allowed to travel in the dlc. Also Shade's owner is given a great deal of freedom). Tevinter shows what can happen if any one side is allowed full control. The Chantry shows the other side of the coin.

[Darkrider296]

Dave of Canada wrote...

"The Chantry seeks only to guide and defend these poor souls from their ignorance, the "educated" mages may complain while they live comfortably in their "prisons" while the uneducated poor and the weak live out their lives in the streets dying of plague and famine.

Why must my taxes go into supporting the bastards who're capable of making my blood boil, summon demons and pillage alone? We should be chopping their heads off, feeding them to the Mabari! Least then they'd be useful! Damn shame the Chantry won't see it that way.

So I say we let the blighters rot with their soft beds and warm food, lest they get the idea that all of Thedas lives in such comfort. Might give them ideas, thinking they deserve the same out here. Certainly need no other Tevinter.

"Those poor mages" my warty arse."

9:34 Dragon
Gustav Montremillion, Orlesian Chevalier

Live comfortably? I'd rather die than have to live on one Island my wholle life. Besides some Mages are confined to their cells all the time. Plus the way to avoid Tevinter is to not allow Mages the sole power of the goverment. All races should be able to participate.

[Darkrider296]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Darkrider296 wrote...

Look at that Mad man in Act 1 who targets Elf's. I believe that part is in the game to show that evil and madness can come from anyone. People just forgot that because of the crime the Mage does against Hawke's mother is highly disturbing. There are scores of crazy non-mage people in the game. Should their races suffer for the actions of others?

Unfortunately that happens races do suffer because of the actions of a minority or inaction by the majority.
The situation is not black and white. Mages have the potenial to lay wastes to villages before they can be stopped Merril used blood mage to detect the taint in the blood to see if Keran was possessed (so the mage would did the monthly inspection would have to know blood magic to feel the taint or lack of it.). Anders has a creature of the Fade in him so he can detect demons (not an option open to most mages).

Yes, it is wrong to oppress mages. Depending on the mage some are given far more freedom that others depending on the Circle (Wynne and even Bethany is allowed to travel in the dlc. Also Shade's owner is given a great deal of freedom). Tevinter shows what can happen if any one side is allowed full control. The Chantry shows the other side of the coin.

How do we know that Anders is only able to that spell from Justice in that scene. Secondly blood magic is a complete no no in my books. Thirdly I think the powers of Mages are sligtly exagerated to spread the fear. We saw how easily many of those mages were going down at the end of the game. Plus how do we know that a Mage could destroy a whole village if lets there are other mages opposed to him. Mages can take on other Mages easily. You gotta consider the idea that some mages may actually want to help better society to counter the foolish few who turn to blood magic. What Mages can be good and bad like any other group big suprise right

Edited by Darkrider296, 24 March 2012 - 07:29 PM.

[Darkrider296]

And besides all of these justifications you people are making don't hide the fact that many Mages are just treated plain badly by the Templars. Our Human Rights Watches would be all over this %$# in real life. But lets keep this debate going I like this discussion

Edited by Darkrider296, 24 March 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[Dave of Canada]

Darkrider296 wrote...

Live comfortably? I'd rather die than have to live on one Island my wholle life.

You'd rather live on the streets in your own filth being spat upon, eating nothing but garbage and having barely anything to your name than live in an estate your entire life? Okay, your choice. Just don't expect most people who live in that estate to acclimate well into living in the streets.

Besides some Mages are confined to their cells all the time.

As are normal people, funny that.

Plus the way to avoid Tevinter is to not allow Mages the sole power of the goverment.

You make it seem like they'll make it a choice.

All races should be able to participate.

Blind idealism is a poor trait.

[Darkrider296]

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...

[quote]Darkrider296 wrote...

Live comfortably? I'd rather die than have to live on one Island my wholle life.[/quote]

"You'd rather live on the streets in your own filth being spat upon, eating nothing but garbage and having barely anything to your name than live in an estate your entire life? Okay, your choice. Just don't expect most people who live in that estate to acclimate well into living in the streets."

Yes that life sucks but there can be hope that you'll rise above it. Mages often don't get that choice.

[quote]Besides some Mages are confined to their cells all the time.[/quote]

"As are normal people, funny that."

Were forced to stay inside all day by nasty brutes?What country do you live in

[quote]Plus the way to avoid Tevinter is to not allow Mages the sole power of the goverment.[/quote]
"You make it seem like they'll make it a choice."

Then we kill the fanatical mages that want a Tevinter while the good ones stay and help out.

[quote]All races should be able to participate.
[/quote]

"Blind idealism is a poor trait."

Its bad to want to take sole power away from the humans? I just want Elf's and Dwarfs as well as Mages to be respected

Edited by Darkrider296, 24 March 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[KainD]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Blind idealism is a poor trait.

You either do that, or you don't complain about anything and live in crap. 

Either you treat mages like regular people with special talents, or you don't complain about them becoming blood mages and making your blood boil. 

If I was a was not a mage in DA I wouldn't have problem with mages. I wouldn't support the templars, but since I am not a mage, I wouldn't stick my head to defend them. I would just vote against the circle, my opinion is that they should be free. 

If I was a mage, I wouldn't reason with people for my freedom, it comes natural. If someone wouldn't like me living outside the circle I would solve that with a fireball to their face, or find a sword in my neck. 

Edited by KainD, 24 March 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[Dave of Canada]

Darkrider296 wrote...

Yes that life sucks but there can be hope that you'll rise above it. Mages often don't get that choice.

They already have that choice, they rank higher on the Circle's hierarchy and thus gain more privileges and may eventually be allowed to leave the Circle.

They're chained by the Templar no differently than the commonfolk are chained to the monarchy, the only difference is commonfolk have little to no say in the monarchy's affairs while mages are allowed to debate and discuss the Templar.

Were forced to stay inside all day by nasty brutes?What country do you live in

Do we have mages in real life? I thought we were talking about Thedas here.

Then we kill the fanatical mages that want a Tevinter while the good ones stay and help out.

There's no such thing as "good ones", everybody has different ideals and levels of fanaticism. The world isn't as gray as "kill the bad ones, keep the good ones".

Its bad to want to take sole power away from the humans? I just want Elf's and Dwarfs as well as Mages to be respected

Which is idealistic, you wish to change the status quo and change the ideas / thoughts that have been ingrained in the minds of everybody for centuries. It won't happen easy and you'll need to fight everybody else to achieve it and you'll need to make sure nobody else ruins it.

What are the chances of that happening?

Edited by Dave of Canada, 24 March 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Darkrider296]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Darkrider296 wrote...

Yes that life sucks but there can be hope that you'll rise above it. Mages often don't get that choice.

They already have that choice, they rank higher on the Circle's hierarchy and thus gain more privileges and may eventually be allowed to leave the Circle.

They're chained by the Templar no differently than the commonfolk are chained to the monarchy, the only difference is commonfolk have little to no say in the monarchy's affairs while mages are allowed to debate and discuss the Templar.

Were forced to stay inside all day by nasty brutes?What country do you live in

"Do we have mages in real life? I thought we were talking about Thedas here."

Must have mis read your post. I thought you were saying that in real life were often confined to our cells.

Then we kill the fanatical mages that want a Tevinter while the good ones stay and help out.

"There's no such thing as "good ones", everybody has different ideals and levels of fanaticism. The world isn't as gray as "kill the bad ones, keep the good ones"."

A morally upright person is pretty easy to distinguish from a nasty mage who is vying for power. Besides Mages would have to settle with sharing power. Its only fair. The ones who don't like that would be fought just like any other group that wants sole power

Its bad to want to take sole power away from the humans? I just want Elf's and Dwarfs as well as Mages to be respected

"Which is idealistic, you wish to change the status quo and change the ideas / thoughts that have been ingrained in the minds of everybody for centuries. It won't happen easy and you'll need to fight everybody else to achieve it and you'll need to make sure nobody else ruins it.

What are the chances of that happening?"

Yes its Idealism. But I think it would be worth pursuing. Humans for to long have stepped on the rights of other groups. If blood shed is needed so be it. Some times change can only come from action and war sadly. I'm sick of alienages,. I'm sick of Circles. I'm sick of nobles.

[Darkrider296]

Yeah he saves them so that they can continue to be prisoners well he kills the ones defending them selves. Great guy lmao

[DeathScepter]

Without a leash, Mages are walking Weapons of Mass Destruction. That is why the Templar Order exist in the first place.

What Mages are: Several reasons that Mages are in towers.
1) Walking Weapons of Mass Destruction
2) Blood Magick is a dangerous art and more potent for abuse due to its mind control.
3) Not all Mages are nice people, Many of them are horrible Psychopaths. Like the **** that killed Hawke's mother and several women.
4) Nice Targets for Demons due to their Weapons of Mass Destruction status.
5) Many Arts are dangerous in and of themselves, and the potential for abuse outweighs the Postives.

[Realmzmaster]

So we have a by any means necessary mentality. The problem with a mage/templar war as with any war is that the common folk are the collateral damage. Their lives are ruined or lost through no fault of their own. They would simply end up hating both sides of the conflict. Fear and suspicion would still follow mages long after the conflict. The mages would still be seen as causing the most devastation by releasing their magic. Fireballs, firestorms blizzards (AOE spells) destroy indiscriminately. Who do you think the common folk will fear more in the conflict?

And no it is not always easy to distinguish the good ones from the bad ones. Most people are shades of gray.

[Darkrider296]

But what other method will free the mages? I would hope in the war that innocents would be avoided. I can imagine that once the war has truly started the fighting will mainly be done between Chantry supporters and Mages. Some causes are worth fighting for. Why is that a scary concept to people. Mages who are PEOPLE that can LEARN to CHANNEL (Speaking to you DeathScepter) their power should be allowed to use their powers to help for the better. Yes the good out weighs the bad in my eyes. Most mages don't get a chance to help out. At best if they've pleased their jailers enough they can be given escorts for their outside travels. Still not true freedom. For every good mage you keep locked away your denying the world another Malcom Hawke or Wynne. People who could be actively helping in society every day.

[KainD]

DeathScepter wrote...

Without a leash, Mages are walking Weapons of Mass Destruction. That is why the Templar Order exist in the first place.

What Mages are: Several reasons that Mages are in towers.
1) Walking Weapons of Mass Destruction
2) Blood Magick is a dangerous art and more potent for abuse due to its mind control.
3) Not all Mages are nice people, Many of them are horrible Psychopaths. Like the **** that killed Hawke's mother and several women.
4) Nice Targets for Demons due to their Weapons of Mass Destruction status.
5) Many Arts are dangerous in and of themselves, and the potential for abuse outweighs the Postives.

But it means nothing. You shouldn't punish people before they have done anything wrong. Mages should be free until they become possessed or make any sort of crime, THEN they should be imprissoned or made tranquil or killed or something in between, but not until they have done something wrong. 

If you imprison them before they have done something wrong, morality is on their side, they are completely justified to blast you in the face with a fireball and swear on your corpse.

[Darkrider296]

No matter what the game throws at me I keep my real world ideas because I know that they would make Thedas a better place if they were more widely applied. I'm not going to appease the racist and bigoted attitudes of modern Thedas