1194 réponses à ce sujet

[DKJaigen]

Hanz54321 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

The tevinter mages are just like everywhere else a minority. So who gave the mages power? The nobility, the military and  he merchants. Since i hear nothing about any resistance to their rule its obvious to me that the normal humans support the actions of the mages. The tevinter imperium is purely a cultural problem as the common people are as much to blame as the mages are.

I'm sure you've seen or heard the many variations of the tale of the Old West Sheriff holding off an angry lynch mob by himself.  It always goes something like, "You all can get me, but I'm taking 6 of you with me."  Lynch mob scuttles off because nobody wants to take a fireball . . . errr, I mean bullet to the face.

But yup - it's the mob's fault for not sacrificing a few to swarm the sheriff.

Technically, you're right.  But c'mon . . . put yourself in a Tevinter citizen's shoes.  You really think if you were unhappy you'd be at the front of the line with sword in hand?  Or would you continue to work your fields and just be thankful it was your neighbor they took away to bleed?

Sorry im not a coward so i cannot put myself in a cowards shoes. Anyway this is a bunch of bull**** anyway. How many revolutions have occured? all these people knew that they could lose everything and still did it .

[the_secondhammer]

I helped all the innocent mages in DA II but after Anders (sob) blowing up the chantry I HAD to side with the templars. Not for the Knight Commander (You can slay afterwards. ) but the situation in Kirkwall escalated and as far as I got it in Ferelden the circle was not hated by every mage and not every mage felt like in a prison there. They just feared tranquility like Jowan who went mad.
After all I don't think the chantry is bad at all.
It's just about abuse of might which can happen on both side.
Actually I would like to have the option to say "screw you guys" and head of with my Merrill from Kirkwall. Then Credits roll and Templar and Magi are slaughtering themselves...
But they forced me to it...

[Lazy Jer]

DKJaigen wrote...

Hanz54321 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

The tevinter mages are just like everywhere else a minority. So who gave the mages power? The nobility, the military and  he merchants. Since i hear nothing about any resistance to their rule its obvious to me that the normal humans support the actions of the mages. The tevinter imperium is purely a cultural problem as the common people are as much to blame as the mages are.

I'm sure you've seen or heard the many variations of the tale of the Old West Sheriff holding off an angry lynch mob by himself.  It always goes something like, "You all can get me, but I'm taking 6 of you with me."  Lynch mob scuttles off because nobody wants to take a fireball . . . errr, I mean bullet to the face.

But yup - it's the mob's fault for not sacrificing a few to swarm the sheriff.

Technically, you're right.  But c'mon . . . put yourself in a Tevinter citizen's shoes.  You really think if you were unhappy you'd be at the front of the line with sword in hand?  Or would you continue to work your fields and just be thankful it was your neighbor they took away to bleed?

Sorry im not a coward so i cannot put myself in a cowards shoes. Anyway this is a bunch of bull**** anyway. How many revolutions have occured? all these people knew that they could lose everything and still did it .

First of all, mages might not be as much a minority in Tevinter as you might think.  In places like Orlais, Kirkwall, and Ferelden magic is looked down on by the common folks and high society alike.  Thus most families avoid hooking up with people who are mages or have a lot of magic in their bloodline to avoid the chance of a mage child being born.  It's in Leandra Hawke's words to her son "When I married your father I was bringing more magic into the family bloodline, not less." which was one of the reasons her folks were a touch ticked off at her for going off with Marcus Hawke.  In Tevinter magic is looked on entirely differently.  Mages are not only accepted, they're encouraged.  They have a better chance to grab power then non-mages, so there is less incentive to avoid bringing one into the family.  They might still be a minority, but not by a wide margin.

Secondly, if you don't mind me saying so, you're coming off as kinda judgmental regarding the common folks.  In Tevinter there's punishment-a-plenty for ticking off the wrong magister.  They're a society that allows slavery, so you could end up being dragged off and made a slave, they're a society that gives power to mages so you could get your face melted off with a snap of a finger.  Even if you do manage to get a group of revolutionary-minded people together, they'd have to restrict their membership to people they really trust because otherwise you'll get Ratboy McSnitch to bring the magisters to the next meeting for a couple extra square feet of farming land.  In certain societys it's not cowardess to remain silent, it's simple self-preservation.  Speaking up too loudly is extrodinarily brave.  The kind of bravery that will land the brave person's head on a spike as a warning to others.

But then that's just my opinion.   Which I am relaying as civilly as possible without resorting to the use of smilies.

[DKJaigen]

Hanz54321 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Sorry im not a coward so i cannot put myself in a cowards shoes.

Oh Ho!  How clever he is!

And also, too cowardly to admit you'd back down in the face of near-certain death when there are other ways out.

Mate im a police officer . 2 times i had bullets whistling around my head , 5 times i had to draw my own gun in self defense i participated in several dozen brawls where knifes or other weapons where involved. And every day i go to work i risk my own life. And why do i do it? Because i have principals. And while i dont expect people who never had any combat training to hold steady under such pressure i do expect them to hold on to their principals.

[DKJaigen]

Lazy Jer wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Hanz54321 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

The tevinter mages are just like everywhere else a minority. So who gave the mages power? The nobility, the military and  he merchants. Since i hear nothing about any resistance to their rule its obvious to me that the normal humans support the actions of the mages. The tevinter imperium is purely a cultural problem as the common people are as much to blame as the mages are.

I'm sure you've seen or heard the many variations of the tale of the Old West Sheriff holding off an angry lynch mob by himself.  It always goes something like, "You all can get me, but I'm taking 6 of you with me."  Lynch mob scuttles off because nobody wants to take a fireball . . . errr, I mean bullet to the face.

But yup - it's the mob's fault for not sacrificing a few to swarm the sheriff.

Technically, you're right.  But c'mon . . . put yourself in a Tevinter citizen's shoes.  You really think if you were unhappy you'd be at the front of the line with sword in hand?  Or would you continue to work your fields and just be thankful it was your neighbor they took away to bleed?

Sorry im not a coward so i cannot put myself in a cowards shoes. Anyway this is a bunch of bull**** anyway. How many revolutions have occured? all these people knew that they could lose everything and still did it .

First of all, mages might not be as much a minority in Tevinter as you might think.  In places like Orlais, Kirkwall, and Ferelden magic is looked down on by the common folks and high society alike.  Thus most families avoid hooking up with people who are mages or have a lot of magic in their bloodline to avoid the chance of a mage child being born.  It's in Leandra Hawke's words to her son "When I married your father I was bringing more magic into the family bloodline, not less." which was one of the reasons her folks were a touch ticked off at her for going off with Marcus Hawke.  In Tevinter magic is looked on entirely differently.  Mages are not only accepted, they're encouraged.  They have a better chance to grab power then non-mages, so there is less incentive to avoid bringing one into the family.  They might still be a minority, but not by a wide margin.

Secondly, if you don't mind me saying so, you're coming off as kinda judgmental regarding the common folks.  In Tevinter there's punishment-a-plenty for ticking off the wrong magister.  They're a society that allows slavery, so you could end up being dragged off and made a slave, they're a society that gives power to mages so you could get your face melted off with a snap of a finger.  Even if you do manage to get a group of revolutionary-minded people together, they'd have to restrict their membership to people they really trust because otherwise you'll get Ratboy McSnitch to bring the magisters to the next meeting for a couple extra square feet of farming land.  In certain societys it's not cowardess to remain silent, it's simple self-preservation.  Speaking up too loudly is extrodinarily brave.  The kind of bravery that will land the brave person's head on a spike as a warning to others.

But then that's just my opinion.   Which I am relaying as civilly as possible without resorting to the use of smilies.

But i dont care about opinions and i want facts. And while we have dont have real info about the tevinter imperium it is telling that the despite that the tevinter imperium is portrayed as a complete ****hole you never see any tevinters refugees. Its also telling that the tevinters responded with such hostility to Rhys while he was in the tevinter imperium. Hostility to someone simply because he belongs to a nation where you previously at war with is usually a sign of loyalty to your own nation.

And thats about the only facts we have. Fenris despite coming from tevinter gives no insight about tevinter as a whole. But i find Fenris a hypocritical little bastard anyway so i just ignore him.

[Asch Lavigne]

Either decision was messed up. I sided with the mages but not because I thought they should be free from the Circle, but nope that's what it turned into. And the whole "kill all the mages because of a few" thing was messed up.

You should've been able to just kill Anders for what he did and kill Meredith. Maybe Orsino, I believed he was decent until the end. With the crazy people out of the way maybe others could've sat down and worked something out.

[ianvillan]

DKJaigen wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Hanz54321 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

The tevinter mages are just like everywhere else a minority. So who gave the mages power? The nobility, the military and  he merchants. Since i hear nothing about any resistance to their rule its obvious to me that the normal humans support the actions of the mages. The tevinter imperium is purely a cultural problem as the common people are as much to blame as the mages are.

I'm sure you've seen or heard the many variations of the tale of the Old West Sheriff holding off an angry lynch mob by himself.  It always goes something like, "You all can get me, but I'm taking 6 of you with me."  Lynch mob scuttles off because nobody wants to take a fireball . . . errr, I mean bullet to the face.

But yup - it's the mob's fault for not sacrificing a few to swarm the sheriff.

Technically, you're right.  But c'mon . . . put yourself in a Tevinter citizen's shoes.  You really think if you were unhappy you'd be at the front of the line with sword in hand?  Or would you continue to work your fields and just be thankful it was your neighbor they took away to bleed?

Sorry im not a coward so i cannot put myself in a cowards shoes. Anyway this is a bunch of bull**** anyway. How many revolutions have occured? all these people knew that they could lose everything and still did it .

First of all, mages might not be as much a minority in Tevinter as you might think.  In places like Orlais, Kirkwall, and Ferelden magic is looked down on by the common folks and high society alike.  Thus most families avoid hooking up with people who are mages or have a lot of magic in their bloodline to avoid the chance of a mage child being born.  It's in Leandra Hawke's words to her son "When I married your father I was bringing more magic into the family bloodline, not less." which was one of the reasons her folks were a touch ticked off at her for going off with Marcus Hawke.  In Tevinter magic is looked on entirely differently.  Mages are not only accepted, they're encouraged.  They have a better chance to grab power then non-mages, so there is less incentive to avoid bringing one into the family.  They might still be a minority, but not by a wide margin.

Secondly, if you don't mind me saying so, you're coming off as kinda judgmental regarding the common folks.  In Tevinter there's punishment-a-plenty for ticking off the wrong magister.  They're a society that allows slavery, so you could end up being dragged off and made a slave, they're a society that gives power to mages so you could get your face melted off with a snap of a finger.  Even if you do manage to get a group of revolutionary-minded people together, they'd have to restrict their membership to people they really trust because otherwise you'll get Ratboy McSnitch to bring the magisters to the next meeting for a couple extra square feet of farming land.  In certain societys it's not cowardess to remain silent, it's simple self-preservation.  Speaking up too loudly is extrodinarily brave.  The kind of bravery that will land the brave person's head on a spike as a warning to others.

But then that's just my opinion.   Which I am relaying as civilly as possible without resorting to the use of smilies.

But i dont care about opinions and i want facts. And while we have dont have real info about the tevinter imperium it is telling that the despite that the tevinter imperium is portrayed as a complete ****hole you never see any tevinters refugees. Its also telling that the tevinters responded with such hostility to Rhys while he was in the tevinter imperium. Hostility to someone simply because he belongs to a nation where you previously at war with is usually a sign of loyalty to your own nation.

And thats about the only facts we have. Fenris despite coming from tevinter gives no insight about tevinter as a whole. But i find Fenris a hypocritical little bastard anyway so i just ignore him.

Totally agree we have only heard outsiders versions of what Tevinter was like, but we havn't really seen any tevinter citizens and got their opinion. Concerning Fenris his own sister joined with a tevinter mage and even said Fenris voluntered to under go his procedure.

I kind of envision Tevinter as the roman empire and the Magisters as the senators with their own power bases and each one trying to get to be their version of Ceaser.

[Lazy Jer]

DKJaigen wrote...

But i dont care about opinions and i want facts. And while we have dont have real info about the tevinter imperium it is telling that the despite that the tevinter imperium is portrayed as a complete ****hole you never see any tevinters refugees. Its also telling that the tevinters responded with such hostility to Rhys while he was in the tevinter imperium. Hostility to someone simply because he belongs to a nation where you previously at war with is usually a sign of loyalty to your own nation.

And thats about the only facts we have. Fenris despite coming from tevinter gives no insight about tevinter as a whole. But i find Fenris a hypocritical little bastard anyway so i just ignore him.

True enough.  We don't have many hard facts on Tevinter.  We know, though, through Dragon Age: Origins that a Tevinter big wig showed up in the Denirum Alienage to scam the local elves there into slavery.  We also know through a letter from Fenriel that his master killed another mage in a duel right there in the street.  Unless I miss my guess we can also surmise that the plague scam at the Alienage wasn't their first attempt at farming for slaves in non-Tevinter lands.  So it's surmisable that there is at least a bit of corruption there.

[DKJaigen]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

 . . .

And thats about the only facts we have. Fenris despite coming from tevinter gives no insight about tevinter as a whole. But i find Fenris a hypocritical little bastard anyway so i just ignore him.

True enough.  We don't have many hard facts on Tevinter.  We know, though, through Dragon Age: Origins that a Tevinter big wig showed up in the Denirum Alienage to scam the local elves there into slavery.  We also know through a letter from Fenriel that his master killed another mage in a duel right there in the street.  Unless I miss my guess we can also surmise that the plague scam at the Alienage wasn't their first attempt at farming for slaves in non-Tevinter lands.  So it's surmisable that there is at least a bit of corruption there.

I just (I mean just now) completed the quest "Blade of Mercy" after a long lay off from play.  It so happens that Fenris provides quite a bit of insight into the Imperium if one bothers to go through the conversation options.  As I was completing the conversation I thought of this thread because Fenris talks about attempts within the Imperium to change things and how the Magisters brutally crush every attempt.

But a player would not know that if that player ignores Fenris and just writes him off on every playthrough.

I hate Fenris because i understand him. I have done all conversations and did both friendship and rivalry path. While he blabbers on how mages are corrupt and always seek new power he doesnt think it applies to him.
But to be honest your talking out of your ass. here is the vid



Tell me what wonderous revelations does it show us? No one thing !

[goofyomnivore]

Magic is a tool. No better no worse than a dagger or dazzling charisma. Both can kill both can save. How much 'blood' has been 'used' to fuel the obsession for vanity and power from characters such as Vaughn, Beraht, Castillon, etc? I don't find them any better or worse than your bad mage. They all do tremendous amounts of harm to better themselves.

However they can't be 'bad' on accident. Like say a mage can, so I support a heavily reformed Circle system that gives mages their full freedom after they complete their Harrowing.

Modifié par strive, 20 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[Urzon]

Hanz54321 wrote...

That link is missing investigate -> option 2 "Slavery is legal in Tevinter."  Watch the clip again - the person recording it skips right past it twice.

It's an incomplete conversation that conveniently leaves out the part about Tevinter uprisings and the one Magister who attempted to outlaw slavery.

Nice try.

Actually, if i remember right, it was one of the Archons that outlawed/abolished slavery in Tevinter. His reign didn't last long. The other Magisters had him assassinated shortly after he made that law, and of course; they overturned it and let slavery continue.

I wonder if that Archon was a blood mage though. Archons are suppose to be one of the most powerful mages in Tevinter. If he was against slavery, that either means he was a blood mage that sympathized with the slaves, or he was actually just a regular mage that could outdo any of the blood mage Magisters. Since the Magisters had him assassinated instead of killing him in a duel, it's easy to say they feared him enough that they wouldn't put their lives on the line.

Modifié par Urzon, 21 avril 2012 - 04:34 .

[DKJaigen]

Hanz54321 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
 
But to be honest your talking out of your ass. here is the vid



Tell me what wonderous revelations does it show us? No one thing !

That link is missing investigate -> option 2 "Slavery is legal in Tevinter."  Watch the clip again - the person recording it skips right past it twice.

It's an incomplete conversation that conveniently leaves out the part about Tevinter uprisings and the one Magister who attempted to outlaw slavery.

Nice try.

Once again what does it tell us what we didnt already know. This conversation gives us no new insights on how tevinter society works. 

and since your ****ing about it here is the full conversation

Modifié par DKJaigen, 21 avril 2012 - 09:28 .

[Sharn01]

IN DAO if someone said they killed all the mages, I would say "Wow, your character is a total douche bag." and they would say, "Yup, he sure is and I love it."

In DA2 if someone supported the Templars you cant say the same thing, I sided with the mages for what I consider obvious reasons, but they went overboard painting mages as insane lunatics who get possessed on a daily basis. I saw this for what it was, if mages got possessed that frequently there wouldnt be any mages left that where not possessed, but I can fully understand why someone would side with the Templars.  I may consider is the wrong decision of the two, but its not like either decision was good, and the best decision which was to leave the city as soon as you could, preferably back in chapter two, where not available, so your left picking two craptastic choices between two craptastically presented factions.

Modifié par Sharn01, 21 avril 2012 - 09:36 .

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

the_secondhammer wrote...

I helped all the innocent mages in DA II but after Anders (sob) blowing up the chantry I HAD to side with the templars.  

Why?  The Circle mages were innocent.  

[gonzalez.melissa53]

It's a roll playing game! There is some amazing writting that went into it(just as with DA:O)! Don't cheat yourself XD Try the dark side too! P.S. my favorite love intestest to date has been the Rivalmanced Anders! So much more complex! JUst give it a go. P.S.S. I don't really think any characters in the DAverse are real... You wont be hurtinging anyone by trying something you might not agree is "right" in real life. XD
Peace out my brother hehe

Modifié par gonzalez.melissa53, 21 avril 2012 - 05:06 .

[DKJaigen]

Hanz54321 wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...


Once again what does it tell us what we didnt already know. This conversation gives us no new insights on how tevinter society works. 

and since your ****ing about it here is the full conversation

I wasn't complaining - I was merely demonstrating how you keep undermining the credibility of your own position post by post.

The full conversation makes my point to you in-game: rebellions don't last long because people don't want to get blasted in the face by a fireball.  It's normal and natural thaty people want to survive.  Something you claim doesn't exist in-game.  In fact it specifically makes my point that when people do rise up they usually only do so in small numbers and the powers that be put them down.

But hey, at this point I know that you are led by your ego.  I talk about the human instinct to survive, you claim you're not a coward and imply that I am.  I call you on this statement, you claim you're a fearless police officer.  I make a post about Fenris making my point, you counter with a video that leaves the portion of the discussion about insurrections out.

Your ego forces you to post anything that might make you appear mistaken or wrong in any way.  Instead of considering other points of view, you argue yours into obsurdity.

The unfortunate thing about people who live by their egos is they can't learn.  The first step in learning is being able to say, "I did not know that", "I never thought of that that way", "I see what you are saying", and, "I was wrong."

But I'll just leave it at: "The Tevinter citizens and slaves are all cowards that desrve to live oppressed, DKJ is the man who knows no fear and everyone should be like him, and Fenris never said anything meaningful about the Tevinter Imperium."

There - you win.

Hah this is fun. I have no idea how you get such thoughts in your head. The only thing i say is that is that people that dont hold on their principalities in the face of danger are likely cowards. And you are free to agree or disagree with that. But look at this wall of text of unrelated nonsense. I am amused mate keep up the good work. Im tempted to troll you just see what you will do next.

[DKJaigen]

strive wrote...

Magic is a tool. No better no worse than a dagger or dazzling charisma. Both can kill both can save. How much 'blood' has been 'used' to fuel the obsession for vanity and power from characters such as Vaughn, Beraht, Castillon, etc? I don't find them any better or worse than your bad mage. They all do tremendous amounts of harm to better themselves.

However they can't be 'bad' on accident. Like say a mage can, so I support a heavily reformed Circle system that gives mages their full freedom after they complete their Harrowing.

In the DA comic their is a bloodmage that uses blood magic only for beneficial reasons. So i agree with you magic is a tool the one that wields it makes it either good or evil.

[Sir Pounce-a-lot]

DKJaigen wrote...

strive wrote...

Magic is a tool. No better no worse than a dagger or dazzling charisma. Both can kill both can save. How much 'blood' has been 'used' to fuel the obsession for vanity and power from characters such as Vaughn, Beraht, Castillon, etc? I don't find them any better or worse than your bad mage. They all do tremendous amounts of harm to better themselves.

However they can't be 'bad' on accident. Like say a mage can, so I support a heavily reformed Circle system that gives mages their full freedom after they complete their Harrowing.

In the DA comic their is a bloodmage that uses blood magic only for beneficial reasons. So i agree with you magic is a tool the one that wields it makes it either good or evil.

It enables mind control, so a society has no choice but to outlaw it (or at least the mind control and demon parts).