1194 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

Life is a cage. All life follows restrictions. Mages have to follow more restrictions because of what they are and the danger tehy represent. It is necessary. It's that simple.

And if you study the lore, mages aren't as big a threat of becoming abominations as the Chantry preaches, lessening the need for that cage. Granted the threat is greater than Libertarians will speak of as well, many would have us think there was little to none.

But in all honesty, take the Spirit Warrior specialization. Its very description of the spec says it's a normal man or woman working with a Fade Spirit (still in the Fade) to gain borderline magical powers despite being mundane. And templars often overlook the fact that that warrior isn't a mage at all. Every human, elf and kossith, their men, women, and children are all connected to the Fade. They go there regularly every night. The spirits of the Fade call them dreamers (Mage Origin.) The spirits observe these dreams of mortals, and sometimes even shape them.

The only two things that separates mages from mundanes is the ability to use magic, and the ability to enter the Fade conscious and aware. When they do that they run the risk of possession, but even non-magicals can weaken the veil and make it easy for demons to leave the Fade. All it takes is a large battlefield (the Brecilian Forest once was just that, and now spirits infest the trees, turning them into sylvans) or a lot of violence and bloodshed.

Then, once demons are in the world, even non-mages run the risk of possession or falling into deals with them (see Sophia Dryden or Sebastians quest where a non-mage woman made a deal with a desire demon, and most certainly used some form of blood magic against us despite never having been a mage before that.)

If less mages entered the fade for whatever reasons, there would be less abominations. And if violence (or magic rituals. Avernus, I'm looking at you) are decreased, less demons would enter the real world, which would also decrease abominations. It has very little to do with a mage being a mage. But making a deal with a demon. Mages simply are the most convenient route for demons into our world because they can enter the fade aware.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Life is a cage. All life follows restrictions. Mages have to follow more restrictions because of what they are and the danger tehy represent. It is necessary. It's that simple.

And if you study the lore, mages aren't as big a threat of becoming abominations as the Chantry preaches, lessening the need for that cage. Granted the threat is greater than Libertarians will speak of as well, many would have us think there was little to none.

you and I must be studying different lore.

Danger from mages (abominations or not) is huge, and it is real.
the need is real.

The only two things that separates mages from mundanes is the ability to use magic, and the ability to enter the Fade conscious and aware.

And the fact that demons are attracted to mages.
And the fact that non-mages becoming possesed is exceptionally rare, and when they do the resultign abomination is nowhere near as powerfull as a mage abomination.
And the fact a single mage can tear the veil and summon demons.



Why some peopel stubbornly insist to ignroe lore is beyond me..her'es a quote for you:

Abominations have been responsible for some of the worst cataclysms in
history, and the notion that some mage in a remote tower could turn into
such a creature unbeknownst to any was the driving force behind the
creation of the Circle of Magi


The Circle has methods for
weeding out those who are too at risk for demonic possession, and scant
few mages would give up their free will to submit to such a bond with a
demon. But once an abomination is created, it will do its best to create
more. Considering that entire squads of templars have been known to
fall at the hands of a single abomination, it is not surprising that the
Chantry takes the business of the Circle of Magi very seriously indeed.

There you go. Black on white. Cold hard facts.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 10 mai 2012 - 01:34 .

[dragonflight288]

And the fact a single mage can tear the veil and summon demons.

and a bloodthirsty noble leading an army, like Sebastain plans to do if he doesn't get his way with Anders execution.

And I don't ignore lore or codex entries. But if you look at who wrote certain codex entries, it becomes pretty obvious that some of it is pretty biased in favor of something. I recognize mages can be dangerous, and I also recognize the threat of abominations do exist. I'm not arguing against those facts. I'm merely pointing out there's more to it than the Chantry claims.

Abominations have been responsible for some of the worst cataclysms in
history, and the notion that some mage in a remote tower could turn into
such a creature unbeknownst to any was the driving force behind the
creation of the Circle of Magi


The Circle has methods for
weeding out those who are too at risk for demonic possession, and scant
few mages would give up their free will to submit to such a bond with a
demon. But once an abomination is created, it will do its best to create
more. Considering that entire squads of templars have been known to
fall at the hands of a single abomination, it is not surprising that the
Chantry takes the business of the Circle of Magi very seriously indeed.

No one's arguing that. But abominations have most recently come into being because templars and the Chantry force the mages into desperation. You say lock up mages, I say mages need to have a required learning period and need to go through some form of Harrowing to prove they can resist demons before living among people.

But mages shouldn't need to get special permission to serve their country, to marry and have kids, and they shouldn't be forced into environments where they are the subject to the templars appetites or prejudices, being told constantly what they have is nothing more than a curse (although Gregoire does say it's also a gift...most mages miss that part when you have religious fanatics with a lyrium addiction wielding swords watching them at all times.)

And an entire circle shouldn't be subject to punishment such as annulment when they aren't even involved with the crime, like Anders bombing the Chantry. Rogue apostate, acted on his own, did the deed in front of everyone, there was no doubt of his guilt. Meredith and the templars decided to put ALL mages to death over it. And no amount of good behavior by mages like Bethany did them any good.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Educated guss...

But it is CERTAIN that less people die with mages locked in the Circles.

Pulling more "facts" out of your ass? After a war the most common cause of death is either disease or starvation or bandits during the middle ages. Hey guess what mages can heal diseases and can use their magic to grow crops (proven in the dragon age comic before you ask).

Don't be redicolous.

It's simple common sense (and confirmed). It's like asking me to pove that more poeple die during a natural disaster then when there isn't one.

With amges roaming free you get more abuse of magic, more abominations - and more importantly - all in areas where they can't be easily contained and stopped.
If an abomination or crazed mage happens in a circle, it is contained. At worst a few templars and mages die before they can stop it.
If that happens in a remote village? Say hello to the Connor scenario, with lots of dead and walking corpses.

The common folk will never let the mages roam free. And neither should they.
In fact, if DA ever goes that way, it will abandon all behavioral realism, and the setting will be dead to me.

This ws never an issue about the dangers of magic but progress. Since templars prevent research then they are responsible for every single abomination that occured since the foundation of the order. For those crimes they all need to die.

Your still pulling facts out of your ass. i have yet to encounter a single note where an abomination is responsible for the destruction of a city or village. Redcliff you say? it was undefended.  

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...
This ws never an issue about the dangers of magic but progress.

Actually it was about the dangers of magic, but seeing you can't win that debate you want to shift goalposts.

Since templars prevent research then they are responsible for every single abomination that occured since the foundation of the order. For those crimes they all need to die.

Wrong.

Your still pulling facts out of your ass. i have yet to encounter a single note where an abomination is responsible for the destruction of a city or village. Redcliff you say? it was undefended.  

Quotes from the codex and wiki are not facts now?
Quotes from devs are not facts now?

Yikes. So facts are only those thing that support you?
If you wont' accept the codex and wiki, then there's no point in discussing anything with you.
And therefore I refuse to accept naything and anything you say from this point on.

EDIt: An no, Redcliffe was not undefended. Msot of hte knights were away, but the regular soldiers were there.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...

And the fact a single mage can tear the veil and summon demons.

and a bloodthirsty noble leading an army, like Sebastain plans to do if he doesn't get his way with Anders execution.

No. It takes massive battles to weaken the veil, and even then it takes THOUSANDS.
Power concetrated in one individual and royal power are two compeltely different things. Any royal or general relies on the men beneath him.

And I don't ignore lore or codex entries. But if you look at who wrote certain codex entries, it becomes pretty obvious that some of it is pretty biased in favor of something. I recognize mages can be dangerous, and I also recognize the threat of abominations do exist. I'm not arguing against those facts. I'm merely pointing out there's more to it than the Chantry claims.

And not all Codex entreis are written fro ma specific POV. And dev quotes aren't especially.

Replace ignore with downplay. Same effect.

No one's arguing that. But abominations have most recently come into being because templars and the Chantry force the mages into desperation. You say lock up mages, I say mages need to have a required learning period and need to go through some form of Harrowing to prove they can resist demons before living among people.

Mages can never live among people.

What part of "worst cataclyisms in history" is hard to undersand?

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Actually it was about the dangers of magic, but seeing you can't win that debate you want to shift goalposts.

if you say so

Wrong.

Name a single advancement the circles have achieved.

Quotes from the codex and wiki are not facts now?
Quotes from devs are not facts now?

Yikes. So facts are only those thing that support you?
If you wont' accept the codex and wiki, then there's no point in discussing anything with you.
And therefore I refuse to accept naything and anything you say from this point on.

EDIt: An no, Redcliffe was not undefended. Msot of hte knights were away, but the regular soldiers were there.

.

LOL their is nothing in the codex or in the dev posts. better post them quick mate. but you cannot.

[dragonflight288]

Mages can never live among people.

Says who? Mages lived freely outside of the chantry between the fall of the Imperium in the South and before the rise of the Chantry, and the world still exists. People still live. Mages didn't destroy the world. They live freely in Rivain. That country still exists. They live freely among the Dalish, and they haven't brought about another Tevinter Imperium. They don't even want it. It's a completely different culture and outlook on mages.

What part of "worst cataclyisms in history" is hard to undersand?

The part that also acknowledges that a mage is still a person with their own hopes and dreams who show NO signs of magical ability until adolescence, long enough to emotionally attach themselves to their families and have their world views partially shaped by them. The part that can look at each and every mage and see a living breathing human or elven being with their own challenges in life. They have a gift that can help people around them. But they also have the responsibility to use their gift wisely. Any tool in life can be abused and turned to destructive purposes.

If you take a regular person around the age of six and lock them up, treat them like an animal, it shouldn't be a surprise that by the time they're an adult, what you have is an animal that looks like a human.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 11 mai 2012 - 12:05 .

[KainD]

dragonflight288 wrote...
Mages lived freely outside of the chantry between the fall of the Imperium in the South and before the rise of the Chantry, and the world still exists. People still live. Mages didn't destroy the world. They live freely in Rivain. That country still exists.

Oh look:

"Although there are prohibitions on magic, seers are revered as a matter of tradition.These local hedge witches converse with spirits and even allow themselves to be possessed, though it is supposedly done so for the benefit of their villages."

Not only does Rivain stand, but Rivain also understands that cooperating with spirits/demons is not always a bad idea. 

Modifié par KainD, 11 mai 2012 - 02:56 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...

Quotes from the codex and wiki are not facts now?
Quotes from devs are not facts now?

Yikes. So facts are only those thing that support you?
If you wont' accept the codex and wiki, then there's no point in discussing anything with you.
And therefore I refuse to accept naything and anything you say from this point on.

.

LOL their is nothing in the codex or in the dev posts. better post them quick mate. but you cannot.

Abominations have been responsible for some of the worst cataclysms in
history, and the notion that some mage in a remote tower could turn into
such a creature unbeknownst to any was the driving force behind the
creation of the Circle of Magi


The Circle has methods for
weeding out those who are too at risk for demonic possession, and scant
few mages would give up their free will to submit to such a bond with a
demon. But once an abomination is created, it will do its best to create
more. Considering that entire squads of templars have been known to
fall at the hands of a single abomination, it is not surprising that the
Chantry takes the business of the Circle of Magi very seriously indeed.


Thar you go. You can keep trying to avoid this, but I can easily just copy/paste in every single one of my posts.

[Lotion Soronarr]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Mages can never live among people.

Says who? Mages lived freely outside of the chantry between the fall of the Imperium in the South and before the rise of the Chantry, and the world still exists. People still live. Mages didn't destroy the world. They live freely in Rivain. That country still exists. They live freely among the Dalish, and they haven't brought about another Tevinter Imperium. They don't even want it. It's a completely different culture and outlook on mages.

Again with the "destroy the world fallacy".
you know, if humantiy never did anything abotu all kinds of natural disasters, the would would stil lexist. Who needs earthquake-proof buildings, warning systems and shelters for floods and tsuanmis? It will only kill a few thousand of us anyway, and there's 6 billion. So naturally, natural disasters are a insignificant probolem..Because only if it destroyed the earth it would be a significant problem...right?

Mages used to roam free. And a lot more death and destruction resulted because of that.

The Dalish? They have like, 2 mages in the entire clan. And if the mage turns into an abomination, they have to hunt it down..if they can. Assuming the abomination doesn't wipe out the entire clan (and since some clans were wiped out, it has happened). Not really a sucesfull system and especialyl nto applicable to a society with far mroe mages and one that isn't nomadic.
and the Dalish lack the numbers and strength to bring back another Tevinter Imperium. After the first imperium, the entire world will be upon them in a second.

What part of "worst cataclyisms in history" is hard to undersand?

The part that also acknowledges that a mage is still a person with their own hopes and dreams who show NO signs of magical ability until adolescence, long enough to emotionally attach themselves to their families and have their world views partially shaped by them. The part that can look at each and every mage and see a living breathing human or elven being with their own challenges in life. They have a gift that can help people around them. But they also have the responsibility to use their gift wisely. Any tool in life can be abused and turned to destructive purposes.

And a part that is irrelevant to the security and danger of mages.
And a part that also ignores that "abuse" is only partly a concern, as even that friendly healer mage can turin into an abomination and slaughter the whole village. Even that caring and loving mage mother can devour her own beloved child.
Mages are dangerous by their nature, and even more dangerous because they can kill you even if they don't want to. You insist on thinking with your heart and not your brain. That is not wise.

If you take a regular person around the age of six and lock them up, treat them like an animal, it shouldn't be a surprise that by the time they're an adult, what you have is an animal that looks like a human.

Except they aren't treated like an animal.

[Urzon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote..


Abominations have been responsible for some of the worst cataclysms in
history, and the notion that some mage in a remote tower could turn into
such a creature unbeknownst to any was the driving force behind the
creation of the Circle of Magi


The Circle has methods for
weeding out those who are too at risk for demonic possession, and scant
few mages would give up their free will to submit to such a bond with a
demon. But once an abomination is created, it will do its best to create
more. Considering that entire squads of templars have been known to
fall at the hands of a single abomination, it is not surprising that the
Chantry takes the business of the Circle of Magi very seriously indeed.


Thar you go. You can keep trying to avoid this, but I can easily just copy/paste in every single one of my posts.

Abominations have been responsible for some of the worst cataclysms in history, and the notion that some mage in a remote tower could turn into such a creature unbeknownst to any was the driving force behind the creation of the Circle of Magi.

Thankfully, abominations are rare. The Circle has methods for weeding out those who are too at risk for demonic possession, and scant few mages would give up their free will to submit to such a bond with a demon. But once an abomination is created, it will do its best to create more. Considering that entire squads of templars have been known to fall at the hands of a single abomination, it is not surprising that the Chantry takes the business of the Circle of Magi very seriously indeed.

Funny how you "forgot" to paste that part of the codex that I bolded and underlined. I guess you some how missed it. That gap inbetween the paragraphs must of tripped you up. Because, i can see when you "accidently" left off the period from "behind the creation of the Circle of Magi" as well. There you go! Now you can copy/paste that one from now on!

Modifié par Urzon, 11 mai 2012 - 08:23 .

[Dave of Canada]

dragonflight288 wrote...

If you take a regular person around the age of six and lock them up, treat them like an animal, it shouldn't be a surprise that by the time they're an adult, what you have is an animal that looks like a human.

Well, if mages are being treated like animals in their fancy towers with their fine clothes / food and education, I'd wonder how you feel about everybody else on Thedas except the gentle-born. 

[DKJaigen]

Dave of Canada wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

If you take a regular person around the age of six and lock them up, treat them like an animal, it shouldn't be a surprise that by the time they're an adult, what you have is an animal that looks like a human.

Well, if mages are being treated like animals in their fancy towers with their fine clothes / food and education, I'd wonder how you feel about everybody else on Thedas except the gentle-born. 

Yeah real nice considering that you are policed by a bunch of religious drug addicts and  the majority of them hate  your guts and seek to punish you for even the smallesy transgressions. And you have to be totally ok with that because it the makers will or something. Also one wrong doesnt make another wrong right.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Quotes from the codex and wiki are not facts now?
Quotes from devs are not facts now?

Yikes. So facts are only those thing that support you?
If you wont' accept the codex and wiki, then there's no point in discussing anything with you.
And therefore I refuse to accept naything and anything you say from this point on.

.

LOL their is nothing in the codex or in the dev posts. better post them quick mate. but you cannot.

Abominations have been responsible for some of the worst cataclysms in
history, and the notion that some mage in a remote tower could turn into
such a creature unbeknownst to any was the driving force behind the
creation of the Circle of Magi


The Circle has methods for
weeding out those who are too at risk for demonic possession, and scant
few mages would give up their free will to submit to such a bond with a
demon. But once an abomination is created, it will do its best to create
more. Considering that entire squads of templars have been known to
fall at the hands of a single abomination, it is not surprising that the
Chantry takes the business of the Circle of Magi very seriously indeed.


Thar you go. You can keep trying to avoid this, but I can easily just copy/paste in every single one of my posts.

Ah Lotion once again i see your twisting information. I see Urzon already pointed it out. You are fast losing credibility  mate

[Dave of Canada]

DKJaigen wrote...

Also one wrong doesnt make another wrong right.

It is when you don't apply modern morality to a fictional world.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 11 mai 2012 - 10:03 .

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

If you take a regular person around the age of six and lock them up, treat them like an animal, it shouldn't be a surprise that by the time they're an adult, what you have is an animal that looks like a human.

Well, if mages are being treated like animals in their fancy towers with their fine clothes / food and education, I'd wonder how you feel about everybody else on Thedas except the gentle-born. 

Well, the horrific status of the Elves can be directly attributed to the Chantry as well. It was by Chanty decree that the Elves be corralled into walled-off slums and were forbidden from worshipping their gods ever again. And the priests of the Chantry view that act as one of generosity, saying that they're lucky to receive jobs as servants and farmhands.

[GodWood]

dragonflight288 wrote...
If you take a regular person around the age of six and lock them up, treat them like an animal, it shouldn't be a surprise that by the time they're an adult, what you have is an animal that looks like a human.

Well that's some hyperbole and a half.

Even the Kirkwall Circle which was terrible and riddled with corrupt templars and dangerous maleficar was nothing like what you described.

Personally, if I lived in Thedas, I'd happily live in a proper Circle (e.g. Fereldan's circle). I'd get free food, free education, nice shelter, a room to myself, get to hang with my buddies, **** who I want, practice my magical powers without fear of persecution and best of all they'd lessen my chances of being possessed by a demon.

Plus there's the fact that I'd be living better then 99% of the population.

Modifié par GodWood, 11 mai 2012 - 10:54 .

[DKJaigen]

Dave of Canada wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Also one wrong doesnt make another wrong right.

It is when you don't apply modern morality to a fictional world.

Then you will have no problems if the mages commit genocide on the common people?

[dragonflight288]

Well that's some hyperbole and a half.

Even the Kirkwall Circle which was terrible and riddled with corrupt templars and dangerous maleficar was nothing like what you described.

Personally, if I lived in Thedas, I'd happily live in a proper Circle (e.g. Fereldan's circle). I'd get free food, free education, nice shelter, a room to myself, get to hang with my buddies, **** who I want, practice my magical powers without fear of persecution and best of all they'd lessen my chances of being possessed by a demon.

Plus there's the fact that I'd be living better then 99% of the population.

And if you were born a mage in Qunari lands, you'd have your tongue cut out, mouth possibly sewn shut if that didn't happen, be forced to wear a collar, and you wouldn't be trusted to look after yourself for any length of time because the time between watchment may have had a demon make a deal with you and you would be immediately executed.

And if you're in the Andratian circles (outside of Tevinter) then how well the mages are treated is tied directly into the beliefs and attitude of the Knight-Commander at the time. And if you were in Kirkwall's circle, you could be locked in your cell for days, beaten for talking to civilians who visit, raped in the middle of the night and wouldn't have anyone to report that too, and possibly illegally made tranquil if you passed your harrowing.

Sounds like a great place to live. I mean, free food and education has to make up for all that right?

[MichaelFinnegan]

Vormaerin wrote...

There is clearly no justification for the treatment that the mages in the Gallows received. But that is not the same thing as saying mages should be allowed to roam free. While abominations are certainly one reason why that is true, there are far more insidious reasons why it is true.

If all mages were free to do as they wished, there would be substantial political and economic problems. Every nobleman would want his pet wizard to help with his wars and intrigues. No wizards would be left in peace unless they were so badass everyone was too scared to try to bring them into service.

Even if a mage somehow escaped the shackles of noble patronage, he'd have to make a living somehow. And that living would be from selling magical things. If enough mages are doing that, then its going to disrupt the livelihoods of mundane craftsmen. If I'm busy making unbreakable, ever sharp swords or self mending clothes or whatever, I'm going to quickly drive the top mundane craftsmen out of business (or, at least, into a lower income bracket). Do you think they are going to take that lying down?

It is interesting that you should note the above paragraph as one of the "insidious reasons" for shackling mages.

To answer your question: in real life many people don't take that lying down. So I don't expect those craftsmen would be any different in Thedas. That is not the real question, however. If your suggestion is that mages can make better stuff than some mundanes, why should everyone else (other mundanes, too) be deprived of their "magical" products just to maintain those craftsmen in their respective jobs?

The Circles provide the mages with a luxurious lifestyle, freedom from the imposition of kings and nobles, and the ability to pretty much study whatever they want (other than a few dark magics). Of course, the cost is being cloistered. Some are fine with that, others are not.

Exactly the point. Some are not fine with it and they'll always keep rebelling. One mage is not the same as the other and all that. Perhaps they understand the terms "freedom" and "luxurious lifestyle" differently than you? Perhaps they're simply not okay with what is allowed/given to them?

What has happened, however, is that in some places the Templars have turned from guardians to jailors. Its worst in Kirkwall, because Kirkwall is a giant blood magic induced crazy-maker thanks to the Tevinter.

A result of someone having power over others, having taken that power for granted, abusing it in the longer run, and fooling himself into believing that it'd not have any ramifications. It happened in Tevinter and it happened in the Circle system also.

And every incident feeds the mutual distrust. That 1 in 100 mage who goes abomination and kills 10 templars or slaughters a village, leaves survivors who remember it was a mage who did that. So they are a little harsher the next time some mage skirts the edge of danger, which makes the mage feel more oppressed and angry. And more likely to react angrily next time. And around and around..

If all things remained static, unchanging, as-they-are, in the longer run, yes, perhaps you're right. But I think that's just one assumption. And restrictions have been imposed thinking that what you suggest is what should eventually result - even though such an outcome is only one among serveral. And imposing restrictions also has a cost, and I think folks are paying for it just about now.

[Knight Commander]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Well that's some hyperbole and a half.

Even the Kirkwall Circle which was terrible and riddled with corrupt templars and dangerous maleficar was nothing like what you described.

Personally, if I lived in Thedas, I'd happily live in a proper Circle (e.g. Fereldan's circle). I'd get free food, free education, nice shelter, a room to myself, get to hang with my buddies, **** who I want, practice my magical powers without fear of persecution and best of all they'd lessen my chances of being possessed by a demon.

Plus there's the fact that I'd be living better then 99% of the population.

And if you were born a mage in Qunari lands, you'd have your tongue cut out, mouth possibly sewn shut if that didn't happen, be forced to wear a collar, and you wouldn't be trusted to look after yourself for any length of time because the time between watchment may have had a demon make a deal with you and you would be immediately executed.

And if you're in the Andratian circles (outside of Tevinter) then how well the mages are treated is tied directly into the beliefs and attitude of the Knight-Commander at the time. And if you were in Kirkwall's circle, you could be locked in your cell for days, beaten for talking to civilians who visit, raped in the middle of the night and wouldn't have anyone to report that too, and possibly illegally made tranquil if you passed your harrowing.

Sounds like a great place to live. I mean, free food and education has to make up for all that right?

He/she never said anything about the Qunari and since when did people get raped in kirkwall?

[Dave of Canada]

DKJaigen wrote...

Then you will have no problems if the mages commit genocide on the common people?

My characters might have issue with that, which is exactly why he's killing all the mages he meets.

[TEWR]

Knight Commander wrote...

He/she never said anything about the Qunari and since when did people get raped in kirkwall?

Alrik and Karras both raped Mages.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 mai 2012 - 09:50 .

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Knight Commander wrote...

He/she never said anything about the Qunari and since when did people get raped in kirkwall?

Alrik and Karras both raped Mages.

Also the mage, Ella...it was heavily implied that Alrik planned to rape her when she was made Tranquil, which in turn suggests that he made a habit of doing that to the Tranquil mages.